[Closed] Sign Article 50 ASAP Petition

So explain to me what the advantage is of triggering article 50 now?

Rushing things definitely seems like a good approach

Bizarre.

Sounds like panic

Hell surely if we can get people working on it 70 hours a week we could half the time it takes to exit.

I'd like to start a petition to have everyone draw a cock and balls on flanagaj's petition.

Anyone interested?

So explain to me what the advantage is of triggering article 50 now?

Are you telling me that although the people have agreed to leave the EU that's not what's going to happen?

This limbo land period we are in will just create further uncertainty that will only depress the markets and increase the lack of confidence.

The referendum was advisory and just advises that there's a small majority of the population that have the desire to leave the EU.

Nothing in it is legally binding. It's equivalent to an opinion poll, just a very large one.

Signing article 50 will require an act of parliament, which means a lot of paper work, a vote and agreement by the Lords. All going to take a lot of time.

A vote in parliament could actually go against what the referendum says, lawfully.

And flangaj confirms it's panic

its far better to negotiate with the EU get the deal then trigger it

To trigger it now just gives us less sway over the EU which is a daft position to enter as you start negotiations

To be clear much as i personally disagree we voted to leave so we have to leave but there is nothing to be gained by doing that now as we have NO PLAN and NO DEAL with the EU

This limbo land period we are in will just create further uncertainty that will only depress the markets and increase the lack of confidence.

No sod off back in your hole OP.

Has nobody listened to Jean Marc Ayrault, Steinmeiyer or any other Euro foreign ministers? Cameron isn't invited to the next Euro meeting which will be limited to 27 members who will decide what to do with the UK. Britain is effectively out, excluded, as in nobody cares what Britain wants or says because it's out, no longer an EU state. Jonathan Hill has resigned and no-one is interested what any other Brits have to say. Out.

Tragic.

Tragic

Nope, they're welcome to their failing, lumbering, behemoth, corrupt bloc of countries....we'll see how much France and Germany like making up Britain's contribution now.

Maybe the EU should've listened when the UK asked for certain reigning in of beaurocracy and cuts to spending, immigration etc.

philxx1975 - Member
Hell surely if we can get people working on it 70 hours a week we could half the time it takes to exit.

This from someone who bought their [b]PETROL[/b] car assuming it would do 55MPG only to realise 5000 miles later that they were reading he [b]diesel[/b] MPG stats when they "researched" their purchase.

I can see why you voted OUT.

Edukator - Reformed Troll
Has nobody listened to Jean Marc Ayrault, Steinmeiyer or any other Euro foreign ministers? Cameron isn't invited to the next Euro meeting which will be limited to 27 members [b]who will decide what to do with the UK[/b]

Tragic.

Have you read Article 50 or Article 7?

Only the UK can trigger Article 50, the EU can do F*ck all until we do, no matter how much they moan about it.

They could use Article 7 (serious breaches of conduct by an EU member) but that would be like using an A-bomb as a police action.

UK Law has no precedent for what to do after the referendum. They don't yet know whether parliament has to vote before article 50 can be enacted. If parliament does and if those who disagree with the result have the balls to stand by what they [b]KNOW[/b] is best for the country....well, I think we'd see a single issue General Election take shape.

OP I am in favour of triggering as soon as possible not least so as there is no attempt to ignore the Referendum result. However I do appreciate that it makes sense to allow a leadership contest and a team to be built. IMO we should absolutely not allow the negotiation to dictate the Article 50 timing, with us contributing £10bn nett pa and our contributions likely to rise the EU have no incentive to negotaite promptly unless they are under the clock of an Atricle 50. Think if we take 2 years to negotaite an agreement and then trigger article 50 thats 4 more years of membership and £50bn (?) of nett contributions to the EU budget. France and Germany have General Elections in 2017 and they will be keen to be seen to be negotiating in good faith as the UK is such an important market for both of them.

As for the petiton I think these are a bit of a waste of time, better off writing to your MP

@Edukator - you clearly haven't been listening at all to what's actually happening.

Cameron will address the ofher 27 countries. Then they will have a meeting to decide how to respond to the UK leaving the EU.

It would make absolutely zero sense for the UK to attend a meeting which is being held to discuss how to respond to us leaving.

Flanagaj and Jamba are worrying that MPs might see sense

Even UKIP, never mind the other pro-quit leaders, are saying don't trigger it yet.

3 months is a long time in politics.

France and Germany have General Elections in 2017 and they will be keen to be seen to be negotiating in good faith as the UK is such an important market for both of them.

I asked if people had listened to Ayrault or Steinmeiyer, you clearly haven't. Euro zone politicians want this done and dusted. They want HSBC to move those jobs to Paris, Nissan and other manufacturers to move production ASAP. They have to make up for the lack of a UK contribution and the best way to do that is make it more attractive for companies to be based in Europe and pay their taxes there than in London. Dubliners must be rubbing their hands with glee as the last English-speaking low-tax capital in Europe.

However so long as we get free movement and a single market in the deal it won't be too bad.

[quote=Edukator ]I asked if people had listened to Ayrault or Steinmeiyer, you clearly haven't. Euro zone politicians want this done and dusted.

Well I have, but you seem to have ignored what is written above. Invoking article 50 is solely a decision for the UK - they can make as much hot air as they like about what they think we should do, but that's all it is, hot air. I'm not quite sure what bargaining chips they have to persuade us to invoke it immediately - are they going to threaten us with worse terms on which to leave?

I suspect the subtext of the EU's "invoke A50 now" is "we're not going to discuss the terms until you actually invoke", which is fair enough and basically what A50 says.

I was led to believe edukator was the loud mouthed angry little troll on the forum, you have been voted out mate.

This from someone who bought their PETROL car [u]after being told by the main dealer[/u] it would do 55MPG only to realise 5000 miles later that they were reading he diesel MPG stats when they "researched" their purchase.

Fixed it for you angry man.

I was replying to Jamba, Aracer.

The 27 will act in the best interests of the 27. I very much doubt that will be in the best interests of the UK because they know that the UK government will do everything in it's power to make itself more competitive than Europe and need to protect EU st(ates from that unfair competition.

[quote=Edukator ]I was replying to Jamba, Aracer.

Am I allowed to comment? (I'm going to anyway, you can just ignore me if it's against the rules)

The 27 will act in the best interests of the 27. I very much doubt that will be in the best interests of the UK because they know that the UK government will do everything in it's power to make itself more competitive than Europe and need to protect EU st(ates from that unfair competition.

Of course they will, but it won't be in the worst interests of the UK either because they do still want to trade with us. They are also limited by what the rules/laws/treaties say they can do - not only in terms of kicking us out, but also in terms of what they can do to make themselves competitive relative to us.

[quote=philxx1975 ]I was led to believe edukator was the loud mouthed angry little troll on the forum

He's reformed - haven't you read his tag? Which means there's a vacancy going...

so long as we get free movement and a single market in the deal it won't be too bad

I am in favour of triggering as soon as possible

At the point we do this the EU has us over a barrel on negotiations and we no longer sit at the top table

Whilst we remain and they want it done quickly we hold some chips to get the deal we want then we trigger it

they cannot make us leave and we can now be really shitty to them by just vetoing everything an being very very arsey indeed

All this we lose if we article 50 it makes no sense at all to do this now. We do it once the deal is signed and not before

Think if we take 2 years to negotiate an agreement and then trigger article 50 thats 4 more years of membership

even in victory you still cannot get facts right....no matter the change some things stay the same 😉

[quote=Junkyard ]they cannot make us leave and we can now be really shitty to them by just vetoing everything an being very very arsey indeed

Except if we're too arsey about it they could invoke article 7. It's a bit of a nuclear bomb so they probably won't but the threat would probably be enough to keep us vaguely in line.

Otherwise I broadly agree.

*spells it out*

I was replying to Jamba, Aracer, who clearly hadn't listened to Ayrault or Steinmeiyer but I forgot to type ", Jamba". I didn't mean to suggest that anyone else hadn't listened to what Euro foreign ministers were saying.

I really don't think it is possible to have totally free trade with the UK once the UK is out because Euro zone governments would lose elections if they agreed to it. Everyone I know is expecting the UK to indulge in social dumping and unfair practices and want their government to protect them from it. (many people in France are already resentful of Dublin, Luxembourg and London getting into bed with big multi-nationals to avoid paying tax on money made in France).

NO once we trigger article 50 we will leave after 2 years even if there is NO DEAL

Yep this : it's written into European law so 2 years after article 50 is implemented the door shuts whether or not we get what we want

philxx1975 - Member

[u]after being [b]told[/b] by the main dealer it would do 55MPG[/u]

Fixed it for you angry man.

So, you act solely upon what you're told, huh? [b]THIS[/b] is [i]too[/i] perfect.

Me? Angry? About having my future and that of my country decided for by people who didn't get beyond the abstract, you're damn right I'm angry!

My company recently opened a Dublin 'head office' precisely for this eventuality. We won't be the only ones moving to Ireland, Luxembourg etc. I have no idea what will replace those firms. Maybe we could reopen the mines in the north and Wales and Cornwall.

I had no knowledge of article 7 but that cannot remove us from the Eu it can only stop us voting.

As so they can be arsey back

I do agree with educator no way are we getting access to the free market without paying what we do now and doing everything that we do now

This idea we will get a better deal is frankly nuts.

I really don't think it is possible to have totally free trade with the UK once the UK is out because Euro zone governments would lose elections if they agreed to it

Look greece dont leave look what happened to the Uk and they were in a better position than you etc

the leave campaign in any state wont be able to say its just fear as it actually did happen unlike here where they were able to convince enough of our well informed citizens to ignore all the experts and that we would somehow flourish.

Its going to be interesting times

Foolish to trigger it now

Just think of the ****ing damage we could do to the EU by inviting other countries like Sweden and the Netherlands to hold their own referendum and come join us at the bargaining table.

Met my BIL today who is a successful City Insurance MD. he was devastated, saying how so many jobs would go as a result of companies moving to Ireland and Frankfurt. He'll be fine, he was talking about thousands of others.

Yep get it started and ill sign and probably millions of others as well and the losers will lose again 🙂

[i]2 years after article 50 is implemented the door shuts whether or not we get what we want [/i]

+1

But then no doubt its the same set of fools that want it issued and the same set of fools who voted Leave (and now want to really f*** us over).

Me? Angry? About having my future and that of my country decided for by people who didn't get beyond the abstract, you're damn right I'm angry!

Well go and take it out on someone else and calm down dear.

I think with this thread flanagaj is in danger of confirming all those condescending prejudices us innies had about outies

(stumpyM4 added to list of people who don't understand what they've just voted for)

[quote=stumpy_m4 ]Yep get it started and ill sign and probably millions of others as well and the losers will lose again

You've not worked out who the losers are yet, have you?

Though I'm loving the irony of you all wanting to do exactly what the EU leaders are telling us to do, rather than what those defending the interests of the UK are defying them by doing.

It may be that no-one has to sign anything. Article 50 simply refers to a nation notifying that they intend to leave, nothing about it being formally in writing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36631518

Yep this : it's written into European law so 2 years after article 50 is implemented the door shuts whether or not we get what we want

that goes both ways though - given the amount the EU /inports/exports to the UK and back, they won't want to be paying import/export tax on goods.

5 % of their trade 50 % of ours- its this sort of sloppy flawed thinking that has lead out voters to think we will do ok when we leave.

Reality is about to slap you and us very hard in the face - well not me i knwo what to expect but you

No one in europe gets free access to the market without
1) bing in the EU
2) being in the EEAA - which means complying with all laws, harmonising and paying - essentially its being in the Eu without being able to vote. I assume this is unacceptable to all sides as its just worse than what we have now.

They dont want us to leave but they are not going to let us leave, stop paying, not obey the rules and STILL have access to THEIR market.