[Closed] (sigh...)

iDave to the forum please. You are needed in Sheffield.

Words fail me.... well I could try...... lazy, ****less, selfish, fatty, chavs, etc

Ah. So this will be the topic du jour.

Morons. Fat morons.

Would there be so many takers if this was the op?
[img] [/img]

Intravenous feeding only.

They were saying on radio 4 this morning it's cost effective to do that surgery because of the money they save when the fatties get health problems due to being big porkers.

There was this bloke on bbc breakfast yesterday had the same op-
This guy was like 'I've tried everything to lose weight- exercise, all diets....this was the only thing that worked'
correct me if I'm wrong but a gastric band op basically stops you from eating too much? ie it has the same effect as a diet (with the necessary willpower)?

Could we not apply a supertax on such people?

All the money that they would've spent on food that they can no longer eat is taxed for the first couple of years post op?

How long does it take after the op to stretch the stomach back to its previous size?

Dendennis asks a valid question.

Just like that Simpsons where Homer has to qualify for his disability allowance by eating foods that make the walls transparent.

This was being discussed on the news as expensive in the short, but cheaper in the longterm for the NHS. I imagine someone who's stomach has been augmented without the psychological development past why they did this to themselves will be prone to self injurious behaviour in some other. Maybe they just become alcoholics, or ironically anorexic?

Obesity is more complex than simply greed. People seem to have a very different approach to anorexia/bulimia which are different symptoms of the same root issue.

Alcoholism has a huuuge drain on the NHS, but this doesn't sell papers. Pointing at fat people does, however. I agree with your 🙄 , but I feel there are many (cuddly) shades of grey.

just because someone is overweight doesnt mean they're a lesser person! saying that... fat people are hard to kidnap, and for that reasons i'm not keen 😈

I am not at all comfortable with this mock the fatties vibe this forum has- i know someone who had it done and she is very grateful for this and she knows it was her fault she was fat but felt this was the only cure. Would you prefer they die early from something we can prevent at greater cost to us. As for calling people chavs obesity affects all social strata.

I'm 64kg, before the "you're saying that because you're massive" retort appears!

But its only waffer thin

[img] ?w=512&h=336[/img]

[url= http://www.porkpieclub.com/ ]Shhhh![/url]

correct me if I'm wrong but a gastric band op basically stops you from eating too much? ie it has the same effect as a diet (with the necessary willpower)?

It's not just willpower though is it?

Some of it's education and underlying emotional issues, surely?

*reads this while eating a humongous slice of Chocolate Fudge cake..YUMMY !

It's not just willpower though is it?

Some of it's education and underlying emotional issues, surely?

And cakes? And pies? And donuts? and chips? And big sweaty kebabs with loads of chilli sauce? With more chips. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm kebabs.....

I'm really hungry now 😀

I am not at all comfortable with this mock the fatties vibe this forum has- i know someone who had it done and she is very grateful for this and she knows it was her fault she was fat but felt this was the only cure. Would you prefer they die early from something we can prevent at greater cost to us. As for calling people chavs obesity affects all social strata.

Can someone bring back the real Junkyard please. That paragraph has capital letters and everything.

Don't forget the part the food companies lay in this - supersized portions, fat and sugar loading etc etc

Fat / sugar / salt can be addictive and the best way for the big food companies to make profits is get people addicted to their stuff by loading the foods with sugar salt and fats.

My name is TJ and I am addicted to jelly babies

I do think the education is poor. I'm now discovering there is WAY more to it than the established wisdom, and even that is not communicated very well.

How many people do you know who've started going to the gym and not lost any weight?

Teh people in the story - they have had major surgery that will have unpleasant effects on them the rest of their lives. I feel sorry for them

Do you bite their heads off TJ, you monster? 😀

It's not fair to laugh at us tubbies...you won't be laughing on the massage table. 😐

Im addicted to food and I have **** all will power.

Thankfully Im also addicted to speed and adrenaline.

I need to consume about 6000 calories per day just to maintain my body weight.

It's not fair to laugh at us tubbies...you won't be laughing on the massage table.

Stop. Lying. Otter. Mode.

Kill two birds with one stone ennit... unemployment and obesity...

Yes, not being in control of food must be a hard addiction to break. Drugs and alcohol have lots of support networks and a different public perception. Also it must be hard to give up something you’re addicted to if you still have to take it three times a day.

However I feel that a surgical solution is not the answer as it takes away ownership of the problem. there is a good chance the overeating is an indication of a bigger problem. Coaching, support and self control would be much more cost effective as they will help these people self manage and remain in control of their lives.

I still don't get otter mode.

*checks urban dictionary*

OMG. LMFAO.

*rubs belly*

I wish McDonalds would bring back supersized meals 🙁

*rubs belly*

[img] [/img]

I'd be looking at the mental wellbeing of these people if they consider surgery a nicer alternative than cutting down on portion size and getting some exercise. I suppose its the "easy" i.e. do **** all about it myself option that seems so prevalent in society these days.

I suppose its the "easy" i.e. do **** all about it myself option that seems so prevalent in society these days.

That's not fair, the mother did put on a stone and a half to get the surgery.

When I was at the Tesco express this morning, right by the tills: 4 KitKat Chunky Bars for £1!! You can't blame me for not resisting that. I'll make them last all day though. I'm not that much of a glutton.

You can't blame me for not resisting that

Yes I can.

You'd have been a fool DD. I think we should check in with you just after lunch. See how the Kit Kat longevity challenge is going.

I've just had a packet of Cheesy Quavers. Mmmmmmmmmmmmm

scrotes

4 KitKat Chunky Bars for £1!!

I'd have unwrapped all of them, lined them up next to each other like an old school 4 finger kit kat and then eaten the lot in one go.

Make them last all day? Its almost 11 o'clock - how many have you got left?

You can't IIRC get a lung/liver transplant unless you give up smoking/drinking.

Why not apply the same to gastric surgery, no op untill you've proven you're no longer eating crap.

I've had a packet of Tyrells Chees and Onion crisps sitting on top of the cupboard for 2 weeks now, havent touched them. Am I ill??

I've got approx 2.5 KitKat Chunkys left. Resisted the full second with my cuppa at 1045. You gotta start somewhere.

bigyinn - That's not natural. In fact, I don't think you deserve them. I think you need to have them confiscated. Its for your own good

The other irony, for these people who "simply can't lose weight", is that they often have to adopt a low fat/low calorie diet pre surgery in order to shrink the liver. These people who "simply can't lose weight" generally lose about 3 stone prior to the op.

It's a hard call though...
With fags and booze you can adopt a zero tolerance approach, but you do NEED food to survive, so it's about limiting the intake, not stopping it.
Also, there IS evidence that in the long run, the drain on NHS resources is less post gastric banding.....

Still feel uncomfortable about the whole thing, but I still have a lot to learn about the subject..

DrP

I can't understand why people are so keen on the idea...stop f'ing eating so much.

Yeah yeah, I know it's not as easy as that. But surely people would prefer to get professional help to find out why they can't stop eating rather than a permanent 'fix' to prevent them from eating.

I'm a firm believer that if you live an active lifestyle you can eat what you want (within reason).

Although I'm carrying extra weight at the moment...remind me, how fat do I have to be for the gastric band?

I watched my mother die early from cancer that could not be operated on due to her size, my brother is also a very, very fat man who will most likely suffer the same fate. I am also prone to a fondness for the pie but do enough excercise to stay OK not lean but OK. In my opinion fatness is very closely linked to mental health and is usually a signal that something isn't quite right with someones mind.

I doubt if we would laugh or be unsympathetic to someone whos symptoms of mental illness were self harm or something more immediately damaging but because fat people take their time to commit suicide it appears we can laugh at them.

In my opinion fatness is very closely linked to mental health and is usually a signal that something isn't quite right with someones mind.

It's not fatness really...it's eating disorders in general.

The trouble is I think there are a few 'portly' people who are just lazy and greedy.

There's a programme on at the moment with that muscly doctor with the horrible shirts, he gets a fat kid and a skinny kid to stay in a house with their parent. Then convinces the parent to stop stuffing pies in their mouth.

Usually there's a video of a 'chunky' American kid who's already had a gastric band or is too fat to run or something. Who tells them it's horrible, not worth it and who wishes that he/she had tackled their weight problem through an alternative approach rather than surgery.

Fat-ism is the only -ism I have sympathy with.

Overconsumption by humanity in every form is my pet hate. Society is structured so poorly that it's a daily battle to manage consumption. From that point of view I have some sympathy with fat wasters, but not much.

fatness is very closely linked to mental health and is usually a signal that something isn't quite right with someones mind

definitely some truth in that good sir! without bringing in evidence of weight gain caused by certain medications, hormone problems and such... even just using a personal example when my mood is low (problems at work/family illness etc) i can almost watch the fat grow and my motivation levels drop to nothing.

luckily though exercise is good for mental health so breaking that self-destructive cycle with some.. well cylcing.. has done wonders for me and on the most part does wonders for people suffering from depression/anxiety and other mental illnesses.

grew up in a fat family, family is still fat apart from dad who lost all his body fat (and most of his muscle... and other body parts) due to cancer. I put on weight incredibly easily but due to my body image issues i'm in a constant battle against myself... my sister however is convincing herself that driving the 10 minute walk to the gym to do 20 minutes exercise then driving home again to eat a fry up and cake will help.

This thread appears to be more intelligent than most STW fat threads.

It is a very difficult problem for whatever reason. Surgery is not the answer, I feel, but it is a major issue.

Why can some people not look after their bodies? If the answer is 'they'e useless' then why are they?

Waderider makes a good point.

Lack of education aswell, theres probably not enough taught in schools about nutrition, considering we need to eat properly to physically survive. We dont really need all the other shite they teach us.

Overconsumption by humanity in every form is my pet hate

Yes, like the guy on the classifieds forum who bought two sets of brand new wheels just to use for hanging his bikes in the garage with.

I'm not fattist, I even have a couple of fat friends.

[img] [/img]

Oh, and I blame Gok Wan.

risky subject but one that's had my mind firing in a billion directions when i've tried thinking too hard about it in the past... but here goes:

does anyone think the whole "big is beautiful" push in the press (plus sized models and gok wan etc) helps normalise "average bodies" or does it fail to address what a "healthy" bodyweight is and encourage healthy to be attractive?

before i get flamed i'm not saying the press should start showing size 4 models airbrushed to the Nth degree, as size 4 isnt normally healthy either... but i've definitely been guilty of watching the tv and thinking the push for big to be beautiful again could perhaps be a factor in normalising being overweight/obese.

such a tricky and sensitive subject.. what is a "real women", what is "healthy", media influence and so on.

This thread appears to be more intelligent than most STW fat threads.

Given than most people on this forum are interested in an active hobby, some more seriously than others, it's interesting that many people are able to sympathise.

I can understand the struggle...

- consumerism is throwing fatty foods at us from every angle,
- marketeers are giving wrong or misleading promises for wonder diet foods,
- humans evolved to covet fatty foods

And if you have a mental issue which is causing you to eat a lot then you'll need to contend with that too.

I'm a greedy bugger, I like to eat and I eat too much crap. I'm not fat (although my stomach doesn't look the same as it did 10 years ago), I hover around 14 stone regardless of whether I'm exercising regularly or not. I've always thought that I'd be able to do something if I had a weight problem, but I don't have to worry about that yet.

I once needed to drop weight for a fight and I just couldn't shed any weight...but maybe that's different to losing a few stone if you're already 20st.

I'm not fattist, I even have a couple of fat friends.

Oh, and I blame Gok Wan.

I heard you were the fattist.

Gok Wan was a porker once apparently.

My sympathy for people in this sort of state has grown as I have got older and less "knee jerk" in my reaction to people who live their lives differently or have different strengths to me.

I can't imagine anyone wants to be fat - especially not in this media driven, image orientated age. People's resolve to do something about it depends on so many factors, some society driven, some educational, some financial, some genetic predisposition. Most folks do not have the body of Jason Statham or Angelina Jolie or even come close to the "best" body we are personally genetically predisposed to be capable of - it's a question of degree as to how far we have fallen from the tree.

If you are proper fat, it must be damn hard to get back to a normal weight - the exercise most of us are accustomed to would be very hard to achieve. If eating has been your "crutch" as said above complete abstinence is not possible - must be a lot harder than giving up smoking or drinking. If a gastric band helps someone genuinely wanting to help themselves then fair play in my book. My only concern would be if it is used like the nightclub slapper uses abortion - a reason not to self regulate (or use preventative birth control measures) in the first place as you know it's there as a fall back.

The body is a very complicated thing - all sorts of hormones and chemicals flying about doing different stuff. For example, I'm having by far the easiest time I've ever had losing weight by NOT eating fewer calories.

Now if the 'experts' can't agree on what works and why, what chance has the average Schmo got?

Well, there's many issues that are contributing to this ie minimal domestic science/nutrition skills taught in schools, cheap and poor quality unhealthy food, laziness and, importantly, mental well-being.

I feel unfortunately that this problem is only getting to get worse due to self-esteem issues caused by unemployment, poverty etc.

People need help and guidance to live their life with a positive mindset. It's not just about eating - it's a cry for help as well.

The other thing that can affect people is an underactive thyroid gland and this condition is on the increase. I have spoken on here about my experience of this including my GP's dismissal of symptoms. Quite likely that some have this and are unaware.

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_fetishism ]Fat Fetish Wiki[/url]

Lets all think about the fatty pervs out there...if gastric bands are handed out willy nilly how are these people going to get their rocks off?

Phatist Mchamish.

Seriously though... Gok Wan should stop going around telling obese women they look beautiful naked. They look obese, just because you take a photo using soft lighting and clever angles, that doesn't stop them being obese.

Back from painting....

Right. For the record, I used to work as a postgraduate researcher on Childhood Obesity at Leeds Metropolitan University in 2002/3, and then moved on to work for Kirklees MC/North Kirklees PCT in obesity, so I have a little knowledge in the field.

The story in itself is fairly unremarkable, but for a couple of points. This is an [i]entire family[/i] that required gastric band surgery, not just one member. This is fairly worrying for a couple of reasons. Firstly, society (in this I include family, friends, the wider community, health professionals, educationalists, etc) have allowed these folk to become as big as they are. Yes, the choice to eat too much is theirs, but if they had genuinely wanted to curb the excess eating and lose weight then the mechanisms to achieve their collective aim were obviously ineffective. The second point is that through education the children might have had a better chance of remaining normal body weight, but unfortunately this hasn't been the case. I personally think that, if [u]some[/u] parents allow their children to become so morbidly obese that they require gastric band surgery, then it could be considered a form of neglect.

Do they choose to be that big? Who knows? Yes, probably. They might all be incredibly lazy, but some of the people I've worked with actually have no choice but to keep eating (think Prada-Willis Syndrome etc,), and it's the latter that should be the primary focus for mediacl intervention.

The other reason the story got to me was because the mother decided that, to be eligible for the surgery, she would put on more weight to do so. My personal opinion is that her fundamental lack of understanding about the mechanisms of obesity and overweight means that chances are she'll (eventually) end up being the kind of person that puts a full roast into a blender in order consume it. Which probably isn't the right thing to do. Unless you're an imbecile.

But who the hell am I to talk? I ate Mrs Bullheart's easter egg last night because I'm a greedy bastard.
😉

And for the record, there's a fair amount of evidence to suggest that you can be fairly overweight but still fit, with reduced CHD/CVD risk levels.

You'll find them somewhere on the internet...

Back in the day, your purpose was survival, there wasnt really much else was there?

Now we have too many distractions like desk jobs, tv's and computer games that make us lazy.

Most people know they arent going to have hunt for their next meal, its too easy for them.

Except for me, I dont use supermarkets, shops or anything like that (or at leat not for food items)

I only eat what I grow or catch myself - food is sacred and not a comfort. All of it is essential. I do ok though, and usually get my 3 square meals per day.

It saves me alot of money too, so I can buy pimp parts for my bikes!

I've just had a nice little box of sunflower kernels with fennel and caraway seeds. Completely delicious and has filled the gap between that and my lunch of tuna salad. Tonight, I might go to the gym (if I can find my running shorts).

Sweets etc are good, so is sitting on the sofa, but I get very edgy if I haven't been to the gym or done _something_ physical in a couple of days. I need to. I might get my bike out again at the weekend and hit up a local trail or two with the headcam on. Should be lovely.

I only eat what I grow or catch myself

I used to know a guy in the village where I grew up who had the same philosophy.

He had a network of people who would inform him of dead deer by the side of the road and off he'd pop to butcher the carcass. Apparently his freezer was full of free meat.

I once went to a party in a field and he brought a few legs...I just couldn't bring myself to eat any though.

sunflower kernels

Very fatty those things...

hold the phone - davidtaylforth......tell me more!

Everything? Very impressive.

Herbs & spices, salt/pepper, oils for cooking, dairy, wheat for flour, oats for porridge etc?

Much land? how many hours per day/week are spent resolving your nutritional needs? There must be periods in the year where the diet must get a little samey.

I've got this image of a chap on very bling bike, scrapping road kill off the tarmac that needs excising with more detail!

As much as I'd like to go down this road, scale of production and subject specialisation seem to make it impractical. My food intake requirements can be met in a financial sense by 1/2hr hour of paid work in my chosen role so I can pay someone else can grow my food for me.

hold the phone - davidtaylforth......tell me more!

Everything? Very impressive.

Herbs, salt/pepper, oils as needed, dairy etc?

Much land? how many hours per day/week are spent resolving your nutritional needs?

I've got this image of a chap on very bling bike, scrapping road kill off the tarmac that needs excising with more detail!

What I cant catch or grow, I dont eat.

E.g. Salt and Pepper and oils and all the other fancy shite most people have in their diets.

Root vegetables, wild fruits and meat is what I eat. You've just got to keep your eyes peeled. Always take a decent rucksack with you when your out and about, you never know what you may find.

I've got this image of a chap on very bling bike, scrapping road kill off the tarmac that needs excising with more detai

I think all the detail you need is that he's winding you up 🙂

I only eat what I grow or catch myself....

Does lassoing the Dominos delivery driver count?

WOOOOHOOOOOOOOOO its pie o clock!!!! 😀

My wife likes watching Gok ergo I see some of it too, to be fair to him he's dealing with some pretty messed up people who loathe themselves and basically sorting out their self image a little and stopping them dressing in hemp sacks.

There's plenty of people with serious eating disorders who need help and support, I reckon there's also a lot of lazy greedy beggars who need [s]shouting at to eat less and move more[/s] educating.

banging on a stone and a half to qualify for gastric band is well messed up.

What I cant catch or grow, I dont eat.

You should take a ride round the res at Nidderdale, then. I've never seen so many dead critters of assorted thicknesses.

binners - Member

WOOOOHOOOOOOOOOO its pie o clock!!!!

Gala? It should taste better 'cos it was reduced which also reduces the amount of calories.... FACT!*

*disclaimer - this fact comes from the Bagpuss 'If no-one sees you eating it doesn't count' book of diet tips

Does lassoing the Dominos delivery driver count?

I think that would break me though. Knowing I had to kill and eat a delivery driver whilst there was a van load of pizza's sitting just behind them.

Infact, I could do it on my "off" day!

Infact, I could do it on my "off" day!

It's what it's there for.

this fact comes from the Bagpuss 'If no-one sees you eating it doesn't count' book of diet tips

Is that the book that also maintains that you can eat what you like, but if you drink a Diet Coke at the same time it actually reduces the calories being taken in?

I'm having by far the easiest time I've ever had losing weight by NOT eating fewer calories.

Are you really though? Are you measuring portions and counting calories?

The reason I ask is because it is actually very difficult to keep your calorie intake as high when avoiding the types of foods that are cut out of the idave diet.

If you were to do a (truthful and comprehensive) food diary of your intake before you went on idave and whilst you've been on it I would bet cash money that on average your intake, in simple calorie numbers, has been less whilst on the diet than before.

I appreciate that this isn't the aim of the diet, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if it wasn't at least a factor in it's success.
Cutting out the foods that have been cut from the idave diet forces you to make dramatically different food choices. It is more difficult to snack, you aren't drinking calories (milky coffees, juices etc), availability of foods whilst out and about is reduced, you aren't bulking up meals with rice or pasta. All this adds up to fewer overall calories consumed, whether you meant to or not.

This is not a criticism of you or the idave diet at all, by the way. I'm having some success with it myself and basically agree with all the principles.

Calories are less than before I started, but I do not think they are less than when I did calorie count. Carb intake is definitely less though.

Are you aware of the study where they fed volunteers 1000 calories a day with either 90% carbs, 90% fat or 90% protein? Guess what happened?

It is more difficult to snack

I am snacking on nuts, which is a massive calorie hit.

For stuff like evening means I am having twice as much chilli with much more beans in it, to compensate for the lack of rice. And cooked rice is not as calorie-dense as all that.