Do i not get shafted for enough tax each month, am i subsidising all the chav kids whose parents spend their money on fags and cider? Its every other week at the minute, sponsor this sponser that, workshop donation etc etc!
Anyone else??
A good reason why you can't cough up? Unemployed, low income,etc? If yes, fair enough. If not put up and shut up. It's your kid's education ffs.
And 'subsidising chav kids' reduces the chances of them becoming chav grown ups.
I remember a few years ago some **** said Education Education Education! My children and their education mean a lot to me but we spunked over £100 the other month on what? Nothing of any educational value IMHO. I will not let my children miss out on anything but its starting to take the pish!!!
And 'subsidising chav kids' reduces the chances of them becoming chav grown ups.
I disagree with that , it's more likely to make them think they can continue being subsidised for the rest of their lives.
100 quid does seem a lot...school trip or something?
As an active member of the 'Friends' of our local primary school.
We raise money to do things like pay for coaches to take the kids to the theatre, or have an artist or author spend the day at the school. We've paid for an awning over part of the play area. We've bought additional books and paid for swimming lessons and after school clubs.
I think it's great and the kids seem to get a lot out of it.
Not sure what your problem is tbh, it's right that the parents of the kids help or contribute for the extras, you don't explain what it is you've been asked to contribute to?
so carl, keep 'em unskilled and unemployable??
Where did I say anything about keeping them unskilled and unemployable? , what I said was if they can see other childrens parents having to pay for school trips/workshops ect and they get it for free then they are probably more likely to rely on that state aid from a much earlier age and get the (lazy) mindset ingrained.
Can and worms! I applaud anyone who raises funds for schools, our school does the same for the pantomime trip at christmas etc. But just lately its actually stuff thats being held in school, and during lessons. Tonights example from the school bag was a greek workshop! Last months was an egyptian workshop which consisted of a coloured in picture coming home, two weeks ago it was 10 quid to visit a place thats actually free to get in. Like i said i would never let my children miss out, but it seems never ending at the moment!
wrightyson - MemberDo i not get shafted for enough tax each month
Not enough to get all these "extras" for free. Want it all - pay dutch or Scandinavian tax levels
am i subsidising all the chav kids whose parents spend their money on fags and cider?
Only thru taxation - I doubt very much your contributions subsidise directly any other kids in the school.
@TJ i can assure you, and from a very good source they do.
Oh and i like the use of the word contributions. Almost makes it sound as tho you don't "have" to pay.
You put it as a question in your first post - and yes it is a contribution - you do not have to pay these extra amounts.
So you are saying you are directly subsidising poor kids? In that an excursion costs £5 but you pay £10 so someone else does not pay?
I find that very surprising
two weeks ago it was 10 quid to visit a place thats actually free to get in.
and they walked there with no extra supervision?
Wrightyson, suggest you join the parent-teachers association/'friends of' or apply to be a governor, that way you can help and influence the way the school uses its funds.
We hold our monthly meetings in the local pub, I'll be going for a ride beforehand and turn up covered in mud 🙂
Only thru taxation - I doubt very much your contributions subsidise directly any other kids in the school.
Not really true TJ. Our children's school often asks for voluntary donations to take part in activities. All children are allowed to take part but it's entirely paid for by those willing and able to pay. I've no objection to our contribution helping those unable to pay but I don't really like subsidising the unwilling. The activities only go ahead if enough people are willing to collectively pay enough for all the children to take part.
Schools are NOT ALLOWED to profit on any trips or workshops - you pay what it costs for your child.
The activities only go ahead if enough people are willing to collectively pay enough for all the children to take part.
That's not right, I'd never agree to that, everyone gets subsidised the same amount (i.e. we pay for the coaches in their entirety for a school trip).
If you want chapter and verse, it's in the 1996 Education Act, s445 onward IIRC, there is a simplified version here:
[url= http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/docbank/index.cfm?id=8145 ]http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/docbank/index.cfm?id=8145[/url]
We have had a pretty active PTA and it has bought lots of good stuff over the years. Our charging policy is pretty simple though. We don't charge for teaching, whether it takes place in the school or somewhere else, the school has a budget for that sort of thing. All kids get two or three trips (always curriculum related) a year, including residentials for y4,5,6. Costs the budget a bit less than twenty grand out of a budget just over a million. Worth every penny too.
Perhaps if the teachers worked a 37 hour week and every week like most of us, then there would be cash in the kitty to spend on the kids, and if the teachers worked full time they would need less of them so more money for the kids and also less pensions to pay when they become so stressed they retire early, and get another job.
Oh and another thing why cant the schools and facilities we pay for be used every day instead of being closed every weekend, and for long holidays,that would help subsidise the kids activities outside of school.
Do i not get shafted for enough tax each month
I have no idea. Obviously.
But if it's [i]that[/i] much, why aren't your kids in a posh school away from all the chav kids ?
And if you can't afford to move to another area, or send your kids to private school, then get off your fat arse and get a proper job - which earns proper money. And then [i]maybe[/i] you will be able to take proper care of your kids. Instead of sitting there whingeing.
HTH
many are
project - MemberPerhaps if the teachers worked a 37 hour week and every week like most of us,
You would need an awful lot more teachers - most work significantly more hours than 37.
Oh and another thing why cant the schools and facilities we pay for be used every day instead of being closed every weekend, and for long holidays,that would help subsidise the kids activities outside of school.
They can be and sometimes are - but you need staff to staff them and to pay for energy usuage
perhaps if the teachers worked a 37 hour week and every week like most of us
Too right! Most of the teachers I know work far longer than that per week.
project if you would like to PM me I'll see if I can fit you in for a booking. You'll have to work around three football clubs, blood donors, two churches, SureStart, mums and tots, Police Athletic club, a dance school, neighbourhood watch meetings, elections, amateur dramatic club, ward surgery, night classes, Brownies and Guides and BikeAbility in the summer. Oh and there will likely be a teacher around working late to let you in.
A good reason why you can't cough up? Unemployed, low income,etc? If yes, fair enough. If not put up and shut up. It's your kid's education ffs.
And 'subsidising chav kids' reduces the chances of them becoming chav grown ups.
utter tosh. If someone is underpriveleged for whatever reason it should never be the responsibility of the parents of another child.
School opposite me, they arrive between 9.00 and 9.15 qnd a lot leave about 10.am then they all go home at 15.00, and they have breaks in between.
Where as last week the road gang worked from 08.00 to 20.00 every day to replace the road surface.
Think yourself lucky, I don't have kids but get shafted by the tax man to pay for everybody elses. Bunch of scroungers the lot of you! 😉
project - what great valuable job do you do? sperm donor?
Funnily enough I'm a teacher and have just finished my marking, SEN reports and ongoing assessment work for tonight and I come on to find Project's interesting comments. I was also in school at 7.45 this morning.
I've worked in the pub industry, the building industry and in adult support services and I can honestly say that teaching is the most demanding of all of these...easily! In my NQT year, even when taking our wonderful holidays into account, I calculated that I had actually earned less than minimum wage as an hourly rate.
I'm sure there are plenty of cases where people have it much worse but the idea that teachers have an easily life is just misconceived.
As for parental contributions, we ask for £1 per week which covers all but the Y5/Y6 residential. I work in a very deprived area and all the parents regularly and happily contribute. We also provide after-school clubs for a nominal cost - 25p per day. All are run by teaching staff.
So we're not such a bad lot Project.
GeeWavetree - Member
project - what great valuable job do you do? sperm donor?Posted 1 minute ago # Report-Post
Tried it a few times, pays ok, but a pain getting it in the bottle,poor aim i think.
but you seem so proficient at it!
Project, are they teachers or support staff? Surprisingly there are more than just teachers who work in a school. Cleaners, TA's, Bursars etc. My missus was a part time teacher last year. She probably worked about 60 hours a week, as when she finished in school teaching, she helped with after school club and on her half days she worked as a care assistant.
That's when she wasn't planning lessons or marking. Which she's sat in the front room doing right now, marking at 10 pm, after starting at 8am and finishing at 5.30pm.
I don't have kids but get shafted by the tax man to pay for everybody elses.
Ditto.
I am sick and tired of people expecting the tax payer to always foot the bill.
Want to have kids ? Well face up to your responsibilities and cough up. I'm prepared to contribute towards the basic education of other people's kids, but anything above that, then they can pay for it themselves.
Albino the parents PAY a quid a week , when they alos pay tax and council tax, how much do teachers actually pay towards the running of the school as in taking a pay cut or makeing a donation..............
Project - off to bed you are making a **** of yourself
Do i not get shafted for enough tax each month, am i subsidising all the chav kids whose parents spend their money on fags and cider?
I pay the same taxes you do, and I don't have kids. You could argue that I shouldn't be subsidising your kids.
Those chav kids deserve the same chances your kids do. They don't choose their parents.
Project -
Would you prefer it if schools didn't offer trips and after school clubs?
How much do you pay to your employer to help with their running costs btw?
diddums?
Mrs BigJohn is a Year 4 Teacher and Science Co-Ordinator at a very successful primary school in a very nice area just close to Cannock Chase.
Because they have no kids on free school meals they get no additional funding (the funding is based on the proportion of underprivileged pupils) so when she had the opportunity to get a fantastic science professor to do a really entertaining days demonstrations for £100 instead of his usual £400 she jumped at it. Because they've no spare cash she asked the top 3 classes (who would all be seeing him) for a quid each as a voluntary contribution. One 10-plate BMW X5 driving mother wrote in asking if this had been put out to tender, as it seemed rather a large amount.
We are enjoying compiling our response.
It does seem that schools are after your money in some way or another usually x amount every month for a disco here, wear what you want day there, easter bonnet parade. etc I don't mind paying it as in the long run it is usually spent on something good for the school. in the case of my school it is usually something outside the norm eg my daughters school had a circus school visit for a day and everybody learned to circus stuff, a lot of parents thought this was just spunking the day away goofing off (the pushy parents who think teachers are employed to just look after THEIR little Darling) I thought it was great as it when you actually looked at it the teachers were also using this to support learning (how many balls could you juggle, what was the total distance walked on the tight rope of the class etc)
In the end it gave those 6 years old that can't do calclus the chance to shine if you no what I mean.
Teachers know what they are doing they have spent years in training and any teacher worth their salt can find a learning oppurtunity in almost anything.
One 10-plate BMW X5 driving mother wrote in asking if this had been put out to tender, as it seemed rather a large amount.
It's funny how it seems to be the people with shit loads of money who are most loathe to part with it.
Asking kids parents for money to run a school seems a bit like extortion, if you cant afford it you cant have it.
Simple ways to save cash in a school, charge for car parking, hospitals do, switch the lights off,when rooms are empty, turn the heating down,kids and teachers to wear jumpers if its cold,reduce photocopying, kids can write stuff out, thats how they learn,not reading cut and paste stuff off the net, and theres more.
if you cant afford it you cant have it.
An education you mean?
I agree project, and since kids finish school at 3ish, maybe we could send them up chimneys and do some cleaning in their spare time to help pay for their own education. Bloody scrounging little gits. 😆
[i]and theres more. [/i]
No please my sides are splitting
My point wasn't about the chav kids! The point was we always contribute no matter what, but some parents never bother! It grates me that they never bother because others do! The pound a week thing sounds great and I'd be happy at that, but it's always far more.
Oh and ernie! Shut the **** up!
@ project, just ban I.T full stop. Save a fortune on all those fangle dangle computers and teachers wasting time coming on forums, hang on........
kids can write stuff out, thats how they learn
You ought to take your obvious expertise in education further project.
I take it that you don't actually work in education ?
....despite apparently knowing the quantity of photocopying which occurs in British schools.
"I remember a few years ago some **** said Education Education Education! "
That'll be Tangoman, recently appeared on our TV sets, although his recent reboot seems to have corrupted his accent circuits as he started off speaking some wierd American dialect. Still spouting the same NuLab bollox though but presumably not being paid $250,000 for this one.
The point was we always contribute no matter what, but some parents never bother!
Isn't that what paying taxes is all about though? What exactly do you want to do to make them 'bother'? unfortunately this is the price we pay for living in society that tries to make sure people don't go without. I agree though, it's aggravating that there are people out there who aren't engaged with society. But this is in no way exclusive to people with children.
Actually some good ideas there Project. All schools have an Eco-team which addresses various ways that all users of the school can reduce energy consumption and as a by-product reduce expenditure. Most schools are also required to develop links within the community to make use of the school's wider resources, for example we rent out our kick-pitch and provide rooms for Adult Literacy and Numeracy classes.
Asking kids parents for money to run a school seems a bit like extortion, if you cant afford it you cant have it.
Actually everyone still gets it whether they can afford it or not. The shortfall is usually covered by the school's budget, not by families who do pay. However if a significant number of families regularly did not contribute then I presume that schools would have to stop offering all but the most basic trips to everyone; which would be a shame when you get to see how this type of activity can make a huge positive difference to a child's learning.
this is truly a classic stw thread
nearly took the bait project was offering but .........
I have 2 kids and hav ebeen on all the school committess and started a swimming club.
Daughter is now a teacher and i can assure project she works way more than 37hrs per week. She is currently has a nursery class and has just had an Ofsted audit. This being her first she has turned a very poor perfotming school nursery round to a an excellent since she starteted in Sept.She has 52 kids,at least half of whom need special needs care and just last week some with socila work care. She visits all new children at home before they start. Last week she had 4 evenings of parents nights, some requiring another person in attendance due to the parents/carers being "difficult". She has been accosted in the play ground by an aggrieved parent(she appears to have a hotline to social services!!)
[b]All I can say to project is go and spend some time with a teacher[/b]
Trekster i slept with a teacher once, and all she wanted to do was give me a score, and a tick in all the right boxes.
Got up this morning and no kids or teachers thought theyd all read singletrack last night, and where boycoting lessons, then realised it was naother bloodly long paid holiday for them.
Also Trekster when your daughter calls round, ask her to teach you the basics of spelin.
project has been sniffing tipp-ex
then realised it was naother bloodly long paid holiday for them.
nah, they are all waiting at roundabouts for you
Project, I'd love to know what you actually do (apart from spouting off on here about public sector jobs). Teaching is a great job and the holidays are beyond compare to most but then, why is it, with all of the great pay and hols is it still so loathsome that no one will do it?
Your suggestions are hilarious and your understanding of pedagogy is cretinous; I'm sure when you are in charge all students will turn out as incomparable genius but until then, really, your ill educated ranting is meaningless.
OP - schools are skint, they really, really are. If you want your kids to do extra stuff stump up. It costs about 50p per kid per hour for simply baby sitting so you can see the kind of monies involved, it actually looks like you get education for free.
So if the schools are skint why dont they do more to increase their finances,pay cuts,redundancies, and switch the lights off, close the wuindows,charge for car parking etc etc, like ive said before,oh and theres recycling of all materials that could get them some money.
Why not even privatise the schools like the academys are doing very slowly,get away from council control, and state intervention,teach the kids what they need to know,not what somebody sitting in a office thinks they should know, that has no bearing on their life after school.
Seems as if im rattleing some cages and y6ou dont have the key to the cage door as yet.
are you a practicing idiot or full time?
Project - academies are more expensive per pupil.
Are you a troll or a plank? I think we should be told
TJ acadamies are part funded by the private sector so they funf the costs,and put in viable buissness plans to to raise money and promote growth.
Gee, somehow im drawn to your charismatic way with words,
simply put project "you are talking shite and now shut up!"
All I can say to project is go and spend some time with a teacher
Trekster, you must really hate teachers.
Project - they cost the taxpayer more per pupil and get worse results.
tj in scotland and england academic are totally different
Stop complaining, mine are at private school.
So not only am I paying a grand a month per child (from net pay), but I'm also subsidising all you peasants and your chav kids!
There are non in Scotland - I mean the English ones.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2005/may/19/freedomofinformation.schools
Ditto b r
I had a little laugh at people complaining about £100 per term.
Oh and another thing why cant the schools and facilities we pay for be used every day instead of being closed every weekend, and for long holidays,that would help subsidise the kids activities outside of school.
yeah and another thing if kids are only in school seven hours a day and get all these holidays then why can't they work after school to offset some of their fees all of the school buildings are empty and they have a kithen in there so why can't they make muffins during home economics and sell them along with coffee on the weekends also the teachers could work as superviross. you don't get anything for free they should learn early!!!
An interested strategy there project............when your deep hatred of the public sector yet again, makes you look like a complete tw4t, you start posting more and more ridiculous nonsense.
Soon, people will start thinking, "ah..... it was just a big joke all along, and he was simply trolling/trying to be funny".
Of course an better strategy might be if you just avoided commenting altogether about those who work in the public sector 💡
I'm confused, i work in the private sector AND i'm a teacher will project hate me or not.
On the teachers working hours thing, my mother was a teacher all her life, department head for some of it, some in primary schools, some in secondary.
In all the time I remember her working, she brought work home maybe 10 times in total and NEVER EVER did ANYTHING AT ALL in the holidays. I know she used to go in a little bit early or tay a bit late (1/2hr a day maybe) but she got all her work done at school, mostly during breaks. But I do know she could mark books and listen to a child read at the same time.....
She very rarely spoke about work, but she once told me about an inspector coming round to check up on her, and asking where her lesson plans etc were. Her reply was something like "I've been teaching this since before you were a glint in your father's eye, sonny, I don't need a lesson plan"
My mother was one of those teachers you just obayed, without question, every time too. Apparently he shut up after that!
And she never had lesson plans until the day she retired 3-4 years ago, either. 🙂
I'd just like to add my two-penneth. Our lads too young for school yet but they can get-to-**** if I'm paying council tax, NI, income tax and VAT and then being asked to hand over 'donations' to a school.
Not a chance. Why would it effect my childs education? Is it to sub the teachers wages? Are they like coin-operated Marionettes who only perform as you feed them with money? I think not.
Why would it effect my childs education?
Depends what it's being spent on. I dunno what that is and apparently neither do you, but you've already decided you won't pay it.
Senario 1 for you hora....term 1 there is a chance the teacher types will want to take your sprogs out of school for and end of year treat to the panto. No real educational benefit in the purest sense of the word but a good social experience. Are you planning on opting out of that one? If so there is good chance you might have to go yourself which if you anything like my would be a fate worse than death!
Senario 2... The school I live opposite has been running a really cool cycling proficiency after school club with qualified (and quite brilliant from what I've seen) instructors getting the little ones confident and aware. They get a little pack when they "pass" the course Inc certificate and a dayglow bib which somehow the instructors have managed to sell as way cool and they are all wearing at any available opportunity. The number of kids that have got their parents to bring them by bike (sleepy village with little traffic) so they could wear their bib is amazing. The course was heavily subsidised but did ask for a contribution - £3 I think. Would you tell them to go whistle?
Ultimately state education is pretty cheap per pupil considering what a fundamentally crucial aspect of a child's life it represents and any parent that begrudges coughing up a few quid more to ensure it's a slightly more rounded a pleasuable eperience is a tight ass! Especially considering the wedges of cash that seems to spent on the average British child on totally useless crap every year- a little less plastic fantastic a Xmas and a bit more on education would seem pretty sensible.
I can see this happening to us actually, being the shrinking violet that I am I'll be visiting the school principle to spell out in simple words that I can't afford to donate, subsidising my children's activities is fine mind.
And, should I be earning a lot by then, well, I'll do what I can...
So, if you can't afford donations, then don't donate. If you can, then do.
I don't see what the problem is here?
A lot of your ideas are already in place Project; schools do recycle all kinds of stuff, the darkroom I built with no funds was entirely built from recycled materials, the computer I use is ex-ICT, the pens and pencils I use day in day out are not regularly replaced but I supply lots from home.
Do you want to charge for parking for staff? That's just not going to happen, why would I pay to park at work? Wage cuts? This isn't some private sector job that doesn't really matter, this is the future of our society and people would simply not do the job for less, it's not actually always very nice teaching in inner city schools but it does need doing.
Little insight - The English Dept. teaches every student in a school of 1500. It's yearly budget is £2000, that's for books, equipment, stationery, textbooks, presentation equipment and so on. Kids bring nothing not even a bag or lunch. You don't pay enough tax to fund trips etc, so if you want them get your hands in your pockets.
Hora - it may 'affect' your child's ability to not sound stupid.
PeterPoddy - I'm sure your mum was a great teacher but her days are well and truly gone. No planning? School fails, even if you call the inspector sonny.
...and I don't know what a funf is...
I have some sympathy with the OP as when our boy was at primary school he seemed to bring home a letter on a fortnightly basis asking for cash for this and that. The letters always said that the donation was not compulsory but if they did not receive enough cash the activity would not go ahead. It always smacked of mild blackmail and we always stumped up but I guess quite a few parents never contributed a penny.
I do not mind contributing a bit more for my kids to enjoy their education but would prefer it to be less slipshod and have some relationship to ability (rather than willingness) to pay.
BTW my missus is on the fundraising team for my daughters playgroup and we spend lots of time (and cash) on fundraising activities so do not lecture me on being stingy!
Do you want to charge for parking for staff?
Durrrrr...... the kids, obviously! Why can't everyone see Projects genius?