What has that to do with elderly people or people who can’t afford smart devices, or have any access to the internet?
A tiny and dwindling minority, edge cases, people who probably need support in other ways, as well, just becomes part of the social care package in the same way somepensioners get a winter fuel allowance to help with energy costs.
As for the homeless, I though people like shelter would prefer us not to give money to people on the streets, giving money directly to people working to get people off the streets is a better outcome?
I don’t remember the last time I saw a cheque in the wild at all,
My mother sends them to my daughter for birthdays etc. Daughter then loses them and granny gets annoyed because her gift hasn’t been accepted.
Cheques were (are?) common in France - especially when shopping in the supermarket, with the user waiting until all their items have been scanned before thinking of looking in their bag to find their cheque book. Most irritating.
people who can’t afford smart devices
a) Have you seen the price of "smart devices" these days?
b) What do you need a smart device for anyway? Debit cards are free.
What has that to do with elderly people or people who can’t afford smart devices, or have any access to the internet?
My mother is 89, she hasn't a smart phone and she can't really use a non-smart mobile. She has never used the Internet and doesn't own a tablet. She doesn't use cash, she uses her debit card quite regularly though.I don't think she even holds a float of cash after some of her last stash was stolen by a cleaner. We can also monitor her finances for fraud and theft remotely, more so than if she had a cash lying around the house. She also doesn't have easy access to cash, being slightly immobile so cashless works well for her.
What has that to do with elderly people or people who can’t afford smart devices, or have any access to the internet?
My mother is 89, she hasn't a smart phone and she can't really use a non-smart mobile. She has never used the Internet and doesn't own a tablet. She doesn't use cash, she uses her debit card quite regularly though.I don't think she even holds a float of cash after some of her last stash was stolen by a cleaner. We can also monitor her finances for fraud and theft remotely, more so than if she had a load of cash lying around the house.
I have no idea why this post has duplicated itself.
My mother sends them to my daughter for birthdays etc.
The entire chequebook printing world is kept afloat these days by an army of elderly mothers, aunts and grannies who only actually use them for this purpose.
People should be able to use which ever legal way of paying that they choose.
just because you don’t use cash doesn’t mean that it shouldn’t be available.
If all other means of exchange are abolished how long before transactions are pay per payment.
My mother sends them to my daughter for birthdays etc. Daughter then loses them and granny gets annoyed because her gift hasn’t been accepted.
Cheques were (are?) common in France - especially when shopping in the supermarket, with the user waiting until all their items have been scanned before thinking of looking in their bag to find their cheque book. Most irritating.
You can take a photo of them in the HSBC app and cash them that way. I assume other banks are the same?
As for the homeless, I though people like shelter would prefer us not to give money to people on the streets, giving money directly to people working to get people off the streets is a better outcome?
Harder to quantify but with a little less tax fraud there might be less of a homelessness problem in the first place.
And how do you get one without a bank account?What do you need a smart device for anyway? Debit cards are free.
And how do you get one without a bank account?
The solution there is to sort out bank accounts for people who don't have one.
People should be able to use which ever legal way of paying that they choose.
There is no such thing as a "legal way of paying." I'll give you three cows for your car.
When you buy something it is down to the retailer to decide what form of payment they will accept in return. This is almost always "money" but that's little more than convention, there's is no legal obligation for them to accept it. If Tesco decided that going forward they would only accept payment in carpet then they'd be well within their rights to do so.
My parents used to go to a beach around thirty miles away quite regularly. Pop some coins in the ticket machine in the car park, off they go. It now requires an app. My mother (66) has a smart phone, my father (82) doesn't. It was so complicated that they gave up and went elsewhere. They tried again, several times. Eventually they managed to get through to a human on one visit on some sort of helpline and after much faffing got it downloaded. The next time they went they went in their other car and it wouldn't let them park that. The car that was registered on the app has now been sold and replaced. They've given up and go elsewhere as it's just easier.
I have sympathy. I had never used a parking app before, until I was in the lake District with my other half last year. The car park required an app. She had it on her telephone but we were in my van and she couldn't get it to link my vehicle to her account. I couldn't get a signal to download it to try it on my telephone.
None of this is an improvement on putting coins in a machine.
And how do you get one without a bank account?
The solution there is to sort out bank accounts for people who don't have one.
This.
Plus, other than a polystyrene cup, where are you getting cash from if you don't have a bank account? Breaking into the houses of the elderly who you're so keen to have large swathes of cash lying about the place?
The solution there is to sort out bank accounts for people who don't have one.
The solution is to separate the need for a bank account and carrying electronic cash. There doesn't seem to my mind to be any technological barriers to a stand alone card that is cheap to buy that you could load up with cash that doesn't needs a bank account behind it to operate.
Tesco decided that going forward they would only accept payment in carpet
The amount of off-cuts I've got in my basement makes me suddenly wealthier than Abe Froman
None of this is an improvement on putting coins in a machine.
You are referencing a couple of touch points from a wider service. Yes, they are the ones that most affect the end user, but there are other users and systems of and within the service where the benefits are perhaps greater.
e.g. the costs associated with collecting, reconciling and paying that cash in to the bank. There are always going to be winners, losers and the establishment of dark patterns so to the true value (and to whom that value is being realised) needs a wider consideration.
You can't please all the people all the time and all that.
There are however real skills shortages in service design and product management that means that some of these services will get worse before they get better.
And whilst I'm having a rant about poor service design of which content design is a component, have a relevant example of poor content.
I have sympathy. I had never used a parking app before, until I was in the lake District with my other half last year. The car park required an app. She had it on her telephone but we were in my van and she couldn't get it to link my vehicle to her account. I couldn't get a signal to download it to try it on my telephone.
None of this is an improvement on putting coins in a machine.
This is a problem with parking apps, not going cashless.
I've not put money in a machine for years, because most of the machines now accept cards. Which means I'm not searching round the car for the correct number of 20p coins.
They have a slight utility if it's for parking when you have to pay in advance and don't know how long you'll be. But apart from that I'm on your parents side, I'll drive to the next car park if it's app only because you just know it's going to make your blood boil trying to register.
The problem is that for a lot of small car parks it would never have been economical to put a machine in, but combine a cash strapped council, a QR code and the threat of a £120 fine and your potholed layby in the middle of nowhere is suddenly an income stream. It's not a problem of "going cashless" it's that cashless options in those cases were the only option (other than keeping it free).
None of this is an improvement on putting coins in a machine.
Someone went round half the Peak District pay machines with a big ****off grinder and emptied them of cash in a night. It solves that problem.
The solution is to separate the need for a bank account and carrying electronic cash. There doesn't seem to my mind to be any technological barriers to a stand alone card that is cheap to buy that you could load up with cash that doesn't needs a bank account behind it to operate.
That's a point in itself. Prepaid cards are a thing.
Coin operated ticket machines, trying to have the exact money you need, trying to get change from somewhere as you didn’t have it and then going back to the car as you’re running over because you decided to stay longer. Yeah, easier on an app which you don’t need to worry about having an exact change, can top it up to stay longer if needed.
I’ll stick with the app, even my 76 mother prefers the app and can change to car registration.
My parents used to go to a beach around thirty miles away quite regularly. Pop some coins in the ticket machine in the car park, off they go. It now requires an app. My mother (66) has a smart phone, my father (82) doesn't. It was so complicated that they gave up and went elsewhere. They tried again, several times. Eventually they managed to get through to a human on one visit on some sort of helpline and after much faffing got it downloaded. The next time they went they went in their other car and it wouldn't let them park that. The car that was registered on the app has now been sold and replaced. They've given up and go elsewhere as it's just easier.
I have sympathy. I had never used a parking app before, until I was in the lake District with my other half last year. The car park required an app. She had it on her telephone but we were in my van and she couldn't get it to link my vehicle to her account. I couldn't get a signal to download it to try it on my telephone.
None of this is an improvement on putting coins in a machine.
I can relate to all this. But parking apps don't exist for our convenience, they are a solution to you leaving the car park and giving your ticket with a couple of hours left on it to someone else who's just entering. Which is frankly ****ing bullshit because you've paid for the use of a parking bay regardless.
I'm on holiday at the moment. I parked up earlier this week in the multi-storey in Tenby, which is PayByPhone IIRC. Despite already having the app I couldn't get sufficient mobile signal for it to work. From observing the other punters wandering the carpark within and without I was far from the only one. The machines took coins but I've long since stopped carrying coins in the car for parking. I finally found a pay station with a helpful sign telling me that there was a card reader on the roof. Which there was, presumably it was stationed in the only place they could get a mobile signal. On discovering this grail, it required me to enter my registration number (which fortunately I knew rather than having to schlep three floors down and back up again) before dispensing a ticket.
So yes. None of this is an improvement on putting coins in a machine, I agree, other than the fact that I didn't have any. But really, this is just a symptom of corporate greed - WTF was anyone thinking in installing an app-driven system into a radio blackspot?
You are referencing a couple of touch points from a wider service. Yes, they are the ones that most affect the end user, but there are other users and systems of and within the service where the benefits are perhaps greater.
This is the crux of the whole debate really. We are accepting enshitification because it is convenient for those providing the services, not because it is of any benefit to those of us trying to use it. We are being steered, or often forced, away from cash because it benefits the corporations, not the customers
and once again we have the pie in the sky answer of " we will create some new technology to solve this problem"! - rather than using the solutions we have
No, I pay with cash all the time or as frequent as I can.
Cashless is fine for online stuff but I prefer paying cash if I can.
Although cashless is a good option, but when things go wrong and it will, losing your card or mobile will be a massive headache.
Losing cash is a minor hit to your pocket but you still have control to continue with your routine whatever they are. Losing your card or mobile on the other hand, means you need to proof who you are and the replacement can take a longer time (waiting for new card to arrive) be even more costly (buying replacement new mobile).
Reducing choice (payment methods) is really like saying putting all eggs in a basket.
None of this is an improvement on putting coins in a machine
coins in a machine is great if you have coins.
inflation has meant that instead of 20p in your grandparents day, its now £5.85. No notes, exact change only. And maybe an extra little hurdle like refusing £2 coins.
if you are even semi-regularly use these, how on earth do you amass the supply of coinage required? And then carry it round with you at all times. Along with small notes for little purchases. Big notes if you need something big like a tank of petrol. But not too big because nowhere takes those fifties you aquired somehow...
I do dislike the apps though. A machine with contactless reader should be the minimum amount of effort for a council to put in for them to have the cheek to charge money for, as one poster put it, an empty potholed layby.
and once again we have the pie in the sky answer of " we will create some new technology to solve this problem"! - rather than using the solutions we have
yet history bears this out time after time. Necessity is the mother of invention.
I don't know how many times I have to say this but, "we've always done it this way" is the worst reason to be doing anything. we went from the first experimental flying machine to landing on the moon within a lifetime.
losing your card or mobile will be a massive headache.
Losing cash is a minor hit to your pocket but you still have control to continue with your routine whatever they are.
Where do you keep your cash? In a wallet? What else is in there?
Where do you keep your cash? In a wallet? What else is in there?
Cash and card, nothing else. Coins in small jeans pocket.
You buy a ticket well before turning up for a concert.
Yeah, so? Your point is, caller? What has that to do with elderly people or people who can’t afford smart devices, or have any access to the internet?
And what has EV’s and range anxiety got to do with the subject? I’m more than aware that the range anxiety thing is rapidly disappearing, BYD have a battery and charger systems now allow a charge from 10% - 80% in 9 minutes, with range of 1000km. But so what, when the vehicle costs £70,000!
Wow you’re quite the angry poster, aren’t you. Where did I say buying a concert ticket is anything to do with elderly people?
You seem to not be aware that most EVs are leased these days. But the point is that most people who are rabid cash users at all cost have a similar attitude to EV adoption, as petrol just works perfectly without issue, obviously.
Again - open your eyes to new possibilities. You’ve pretty much proven my point.
The people dependent on cash almost certainly dont have cars. Mostly they would probably love to embrace new technology, but they can't afford to. And if they could afford a car it would be a petrol banger.
Then there are the people who just prefer it, maybe these are the "rabid cash users at all cost" referred to. Is there any evidence of a more general objection to new things in this group? Maybe they embrace new technologies rapidly enough when it suits them, like most of us I suspect.
I would love to see some evidence on such issues, but until I do I will go with "it is complicated and nuanced".
yet history bears this out time after time. Necessity is the mother of invention.
History shows you to be wrong. Capitalism wirksfor those with money not for those that cannot be profited from. Who is going to pay for the creation of this new technology and its upkeep?
There are enormous numbers of social issues without solutions
also where is the solution for a business without any internet access?
I don't know how many times I have to say this but, "we've always done it this way" is the worst reason to be doing anything.
and that is not what we ard saying. The issue is that there is a part of our society for whom cashless does not work. Some of us find marginalising these folk further to be abhorrent.
its a shame you don't want to see this point
I can't see any need to do away with cash. People want to use it to pay for things, it's a valid means of exchange what's the problem?
I nearly always pay by electrinic means but I can still see that cash has it's place.
It seems there are some commited "techno fascists" on here want to drive people into a cashless existance.:)
Where do you keep your cash? In a wallet? What else is in there?
I keep my cash in a cigarette case along with my deaf-aid batteries!! Change is is a random pocket or centre console of my car. Cards stay at home and rarely come out unless I buy something online. So just some cash and my phone on me 95% of the time... 😀
I can't see any need to do away with cash.
I don't think anyone here is saying we stop printing money, minting coins (and I doubt any government will have the balls to do that in the next 20 years). What is being said is the cash users are only half of the equation, the retailers accepting the cash have a bigger say in this and will ultimately drive what happens, so whilst cash may theoretically still exist, like cheques, it will become increasingly hard to actually use it. In 2024 less than 10% of payments were made in cash, it'll be less now. Many of those transactions will be low value by people who still think of card payments are for larger values, so not people reliant on cash. The argument that the number of people totally reliant on cash is significant just isn't true.
As for good reasons for doing away with cash, tax evasion and other illegal activities are pretty good reasons.
The issue is that there is a part of our society for whom cashless does not work. Some of us find marginalising these folk further to be abhorrent.
Society isn't perfect, people get marginalised all the time by changes that can't realistically be stopped. Not accepting that isn't going to help those people.
As for internet access, it really is now the 4th utility and probably more available than gas is. If you've got electricity you've got internet access.
As for internet access, it really is now the 4th utility and probably more available than gas is.
what businesses/locations are actually struggling for this in 2026.
I know things aren't always perfect - EE struggles inside my house for example, and thats in highly populated berkshire.
But - if my business relied upon it - there will be a solution. Whether thats wired internet, mobile data, or worst case having to pay Musk for starlink.
The money that any business must be losing by being cash only must vastly outweigh the cost of getting some sort of internet connection.
The people dependent on cash almost certainly dont have cars.
I would love to see some evidence on such issues
Well now.
Then there are the people who just prefer it,
Tough?
There's lots of things that people prefer. That doesn't mean that it's a good idea or that we should be pandering to them. There are people who, over 50 years after it was introduced, still don't/won't understand the Metric system. My next door neighbour is one of them.
Many of those transactions will be low value by people who still think of card payments are for larger values, so not people reliant on cash.
I don't take cash for anything under a fiver.
It's not a tax dodge issue, it's a time-saving one. The accountant needs every transaction allocating (as of course they should), but going through the Zettle statement at the end of every month takes bloody ages. We've no automated systems so I then have to raise an invoice to allocate the payment to. Takes about 5 times longer than the actual job.
So often if someone comes in for a single photocopy I'll just give it to them if they have no cash and ask them to drop it in next time they are passing. And 95% of people actually do!
The small amount of cash I then take gets spent on coffee, milk, loo roll etc.
History shows you to be wrong.
No it doesn't.
Who is going to pay for the creation of this new technology and its upkeep?
Most of it already exists. Do you have a mobile phone? But, but, landlines were perfectly fine, who's going to pay for a national infrastructure?
also where is the solution for a business without any internet access?
I can't quite believe I'm having to explain this but, the solution for a business without any internet access is to get them Internet access.
I spent 8 years working for an emergency backup generator company. They can fix all your "what if power cut" objections.
TBH The people who really need it got it already,the reality is that power outages are uncommon so people won’t invest in it unless their is a real need to.
Being in Spain I had the fun of that country wide blackout last year which was interesting, you literally do wonder if the bombs have hit or the aliens have invaded until you can get a radio going.
The solution there is to sort out bank accounts for people who don't have one.
The solution is to separate the need for a bank account and carrying electronic cash. There doesn't seem to my mind to be any technological barriers to a stand alone card that is cheap to buy that you could load up with cash that doesn't needs a bank account behind it to operate.
TBH gift cards like one4all already manage it 🙂
In 2024 less than 10% of payments were made in cash,
I don't know, but expect that that would be based on recorded business-business and business-custmer transactions, with most of the cash being in the later group.
I expect the use of cash will be much higher when individuals sell to other individuals, but this is not recorded and makes the figure look lower than it really is. For buying and selling second hand stuff it's almost always the best way
For buying and selling second hand stuff it's almost always the best way
It really isn't, PayPal gives much more protection and even a bank transfer gives some traceability. Other cashless peer to peer payment methods are gaining ground. Individual to Individual payments are a tiny proportion of transactions.
a) Have you seen the price of "smart devices" these days?
I’m all too aware, I have an iPhone 17 Pro Max. And an elderly iPad. But that’s all. My late partner had an iPad Mini that her sister gave her, she hardly ever used it, I had to help her with anything that required online access, and she only used a cheap PAYG dumb phone. She was 55.