[Closed] shooting nuisance pigeons - technical question

i'm presently at my old man's B & B in North Norfolk and the buggers are a) very big wood pigeons b) quite bold and c) in plentiful supply. Next week he has a guy who comes every year who's a registered pet controller and he will only use a very powerful catapult to take them out.

They then barbeque them

If it was me I wouldn't worry about pellets leaving your property providing they don't hit anyone.

If they go outside you are breaking the law. Easy. Just wait until the angles are right. You never know who is waiting to cause grief.

What's behind your garden as in the backdrop? If it's fields fire away but if it's houses or public pathway your a bit stumped. Although if your a crackshot like me you won't miss 🙂
On a serious note though only shoot for the head and yes it's not a big target I know but there's a very good reason. Use a .22 rifle as .177 calibre could rip straight through and I say go for the head as hitting the body is a big no no as if you hit the crop the pigeon will just fly off and have a painful death so be humane please.

Head shot a pigeon .. you would have to be an Olympic standard marksman to hit it anything further than 20yds or so.
Middle of the chest will cleanly dispatch them.
That said .. the law says all birds are protected.
You have to have a good reason to shoot them and show that you have tried other methods first .. thats strictly by the law of course.
Just mention your plan of attack to your neighbours first .. shouldnt have any probs then.

as mattsscm said just wait until you can get them safely,

i have the same issue here but with a very long garden complete with a footpath at the end, my garden has a full width brick shed but either side of that is trees and bushes, i know if i take a shot past the brick or above, the angle would be perfect to put a shot into a passer by's head,if i shoot over the shed profile the shot will carry into the garden behind it on the other side of the path,

i wait until the flying rats land in my kill zone which is any where below the profile and sides of the shed backstop, i have taken three in the last 2 months and a total of double figures in the last couple of years,

a good silencer is worth the expense too,

just as a guide i put a .177 pellet clean through my 3/4'' shed door last week chipping the paint off my compressor receiver in the process, that was after it had debrained the pigeon at 30 meters, the shed door is 55 metres from the aiming point.

be careful, you don't want to be visited by the police and you defo don't want to end up wounding someone. that would not go down to well at all.

[i]be careful, you don't want to be visited by the police[/i]

IME they phone you first, had a long conversation with them about shooting rats from my bedroom window. They didn't agree with my argument was safer that way as the pellet is always heading down, I think his eyes glazed over when I went all "James May" on him explaining that this was the reason that MG nests are best situated at ground level as the bullets just keep on going.

Don't bother shooting them

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booby trapped inflammable christmas trees, crafty. How do you prevent them going off when song birds land on them ?

booby trapped inflammable christmas trees, crafty. How do you prevent them going off when song birds land on them ?

As with all operations, there's a possibility of collateral damage, wrong place, wrong time - whooshhhhhhhhh..............

Head shot a pigeon .. you would have to be an Olympic standard marksman to hit it anything further than 20yds or so.

Do you heck but I was in the National Squad so I was pretty good :D. A good air-rifle, well set up will easily hit a pigeons head out to a good distance with a decent marksman behind the sights. If your not confident of hitting the head then get someone who is as like I said, body shots on a pigeon are not good and the last thing you want is one flying off wounded into a neighbours garden and be found by them and you then get reported to the police. Remember, the police do NOT like firearms offences of any kind and they will take action against you and the punishment is severe.

[i]just as a guide i put a .177 pellet clean through my 3/4'' shed door last week chipping the paint off my compressor receiver in the process, that was after it had debrained the pigeon at 30 meters, the shed door is 55 metres from the aiming point.[/i]

Wow, how much power has your .177?

pigeon head shot up to 50 yards ok as long as scope sighted properly. as for pellet velocity et etc they weigh nothing so wouldnt hurt a fly if just falling but! do not let it leave property, as prev. mentioned ditty babylon dont like it!

Wow, how much power has your .177?

12ft.lbs and not a penny more occifer.

What? These washers here? No they're just there for cosmetic reasons, honestly.

You need an ACME pidginator 5000.....guaranteed to succeed!...
[IMG] [/IMG]

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The law states it's an offense to discharge a weapon within 15 meters (or 50 feet) of a highway (this does not include footpaths/bridleways etc) ....and here's the important bit.... if doing so would cause danger or disruption to a user of said highway.

If you are not a regular shooter of air rifles you are just going to end up wounding the bird, it's not going to be a nice experience going to find it to dispatch it cleanly. Especially if it falls in the neighbors garden or in the road. Just get pest control in, bet it will be cheaper than a nice gun and scope.

anyone remember there used to be a 24ft lbs air rifle once , was supersonic (or maybe twice super.) apparently

Ive got one of these, think it's all of 1ft/lb. Can see the pellet fall out the muzzle 😉

fortunately have also an HW35 carbine for vermin bashing.
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I’d advise against it. The legalities -

The only defence to firing an air weapon beyond the premises is if you can show that the only premises into or across which the missile was fired were premises the occupier of which had consented to the firing of the missile (whether specifically or by way of a general consent).

It is also against the law, in England and Wales, to fire an air rifle within 50 feet of the centre of a highway if this results in someone being injured, [b]interrupted[/b] or [b]endangered[/b].

s. 21A The Firearms Act 1968.

People are also under the misapprehension that all birds considered as vermin can be shot at any time and by anyone, which is not entirely true. All birds and animals are protected by law and only "authorised" persons - and I’m assuming the OP isn’t, who have proper permission can lawfully do so.

The Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981

Maybe use a scarecrow or other visual scarer -

[IMG] [/IMG]

the law says all birds are protected.

No it doesn't.

Stoner

Weirhauch, nice - I've an HW55M (very, very accurate but underpowered).

Now we've moved to the 'country I've been looking for something with more 'umph', but unsure what to get.

oh dear pigeons are just a ruddy nuisance i should know,... they've been sat on my roof for decades :twisted:..they wont budge :cry:...literally lived on our roof for years... filling up my gutters eating away at my roof.... took pictures sent them to the council numerous times...they wont help ..(only if you live in a council house then they mite help) :twisted:..... years ago they would be shot down in the early hours...nothing like that now...and they used to put poison out hidden in bread.... my roof is extremely high and what they pigeons do is they go down they market to be fed then they fly back up to my roof to nest....grrrrrr.... a never ending battle... 🙄 ...you have to be so careful these days who is watching you cos you could end up worse off ! 😉

CFh - I think you're quoting moomman but I think he's right as per my post. I'm prepared to be corrected though?

The law doesn't protect all birds, it restricts those who can kill 'em. The "permission" piece is largely irrelevant, IMO.

Plus - Define pigeon...

In Britain the shooting of collared dove (Streptopelia decaocto) and the feral pigeon (descended from Columba livia) is also permitted all year round.

If a .177 can go through a 3/4 wood door at 55meters ... It def over the legal limit.
A .177 pellet is so light it loses its clout very quickly.
And all these headshots at 50yds etc ....
Yeh - sure you do Elmer ..

feinwerkbau, tuned for smoothness, all polished internals, by me old man, drilled piston etc. old but super accurate, added barrel weights custom stock etc.

used to be able to hit empty shotgun cartridge at over 80 yards!

As a kid I always wanted a theoben rapid seven, although the rifle that everyone said was ace vermin gun was the HW77
Theoben
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HW77
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In the end I got into Fullbore 7.62 target rifle and 12 bore for vermin control. Got a handful of national caps at TR and got to shoot in the National Schools shotgun comp at Shugborough.
Ive let my bang licences lapse though so now stick to the air rifle.

Careful now, Stoner.....you'll be accused of being a bloodthirsty, violent fantasist before you know it! 😉

Cfh you miss a bit off the end

is also permitted all year round

The Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 states that it is an offence to kill any bird - including pigeons - unless a license is held, but section one allows exemption if an organisation or individual complies with general license regulations. This would require a specific public health risk to be identified and other non-lethal methods to be used to disperse the birds before taking the decision to shoot them.

You can't just shoot a fricking pigeon without being a licence authorised person.

Being an engineer I could easily "tune" my guns and did so to my Weihrauch HW80 where I polished the internals to a mirror, enlarged the transfer port and fitted a special spring and it was er slightly illegal. I did use it for FT shooting when it was in it's infancy and they didn't check the power of the guns then. But i took it a game fair and Airgun World had a stall and a famous writer was testing guns for people and so I took mine in for testing just to see. Well it came out at 17.2 ft/lbs which is way way over the legal limit but the guy was amazed at it's consistency as it varied hardly anything per shot and he offered buy it there and then. I said no and then went on to finish 3rd in the shoot that day with it. It was an incredible rifle with a big 8x56 Kassnar Beta 3 scope on it and was a joy to shoot - illegally though!

You can[s]'t[/s] just shoot a fricking pigeon [s]without being a licence authorised person[/s] if you are given permission to do so by a landowner who complies with the general license regulations.

AFAIK. But then, I'm not a lawyer. I do love a bit of tasty pigeon salad, though! 😉

anyone remember there used to be a 24ft lbs air rifle once , was supersonic (or maybe twice super.) apparently

Hmmm. Surely at 24 the pellet would need to be so heavy so as to obtain super sonic velocities that it would simply roll out of the end of the barrel...

Hadge which national squad ? 10m air rifle/pistol and when ? I as I have had a few years in them a few years back.

brakes will the pigeons come down for food ? otherwise dont do it you could end up in bother.

I do love a bit of tasty pigeon salad

That's not something I'd coo about. 🙂

thanks for the info everyone.
you have no idea how much they crap - they sleep in the tree and just shit all night - everyday I have to clean it up, it's disgusting - I have friends/ family with young children and they can't play in the garden if it hasn't been cleaned up.

what would pest control do? would they shoot them?

if I somehow got permission to shoot them (if it's required) I guess I could put food out and see if they'll come down to feed - that would make it safer and easier to hit them.

the garden is more than 15 metres from the highway. the garden is bounded on either side by other gardens. there is unused land behind my garden that belongs to the freeholder. a fence at the back about 100ft from the back of my property, and a large (5 storey) brick wall of a residential block beyond that.

what about a catapult? how legal/ accurate are they?

Hw100 thumbhole rifle with hw silencer and very tasty MTC viper 50mm optics, set up on shooting bean bag in daughters window, as far as i know it's legal i've never done anything to it and i've had it from new, i only shoot hw pellets as i gave up on JSB's as the quality had gone downhill a few years back,

shot that door as a back stop many times before and it's never gone through, saturday it did ?

it could be weather specific ?

haven't had the gun tested in a few years but they are known to creep up and are bang on the limit with hw ammo,

would happily post a picture if i could be arsed.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/HomeAndCommunity/InYourHome/PestAndWeedControl/DG_10030298

Check out the section 'Taking further action to deal with nuisance birds' and apply for a licence under the grounds of public health - danger to the nippers in the garden etc. See what the local council can do for you.

Kidnap a Sparrowhawk for a few days. Tie it to piece of string just long enough to reach your gardens' furthest extreme and bish bash. Keep chasing it off the prey and it'll continue to hunt.

Possibly...

After my partner had the exact same argument with a fellow worker who thought we could shoot our nuisance pigeons in the back garden I wrote this:

'The shooting of ANY bird in the UK is covered by an annually released government agency General Licence. By definition you do not need to apply for general licences but you are required by law to abide by their terms and conditions. Crows, rooks, jackdaws, magpies, jays, woodpigeon, collared doves, and feral pigeons can all be humanely and legally shot with a legal limit air rifle, but they can ONLY be shot under the terms of the General Licence for the following reasons:

1. To prevent serious damage to livestock, foodstuffs for livestock, crops, vegetables, fruit, growing timber, fisheries or inland waters.

2. To prevent the spread of disease.

3. To preserve public health or public safety.

4. To conserve wild birds

5. To conserve flora and fauna.

Even then shooting is ONLY an option after other non lethal methods have been considered and proven to be inappropriate.'

P.S. Much as I agree they should be shot, you only have to have some bunny-hugging neighbour see you and be against it for you to be in trouble.

If you were shooting up into the air (12ft lbs about 45deg ish) you pellet could go about 350 meters ❗

Okay, i guess the question is what do you want to achieve?

If it's harvesting pigeons for tasty purposes (nothing wrong with that) then i say blast away (within reason as lots have already said)

As for pest control, shooting is generally seen as a short-term measure which needs constantly doing. This is true for lots of species (grey squirrel control is a good example).

If you arent gearing up for a long-term battle with the pigeons, you won't stop them showing up (and might achieve the opposite) as others will take the place of the ones you shoot as long as food and perching remains available. They repopulate very fast, so if you don't eat them it could be killing stuff for no reason, which is hard to support.

This is something that is documented by pest controllers and ecologists, so maybe consider it.

also: http://www.pigeoncontrolresourcecentre.org/html/reviews/kill-pigeons-pigeon-traps-killing-pigeons.html

I had a similar problem when I moved into my current house.

I launched a war against them. But then I am lucky as I have a sloping garden and no chance of a pellet leaving the property.

The law does say you're supposed to try every other preventative measure before killing them. I didn't really try that hard.......

But, as said, they breed like rabbits - well flying rabbits. In the end I took the tree down they were roosting in. I went from shooting two a week to two a year overnight. It's drastic, but it's really the only way to get rid of the problem you're suggesting.

catapults are a silly idea to cull them. No matter what Gamekeeper John shows in his youtube clips.
Inform your neighbours first to explain or maybe convince.
Then sit there one morn and put a pellet through them.
Odds are they will very soon move down the road to a safer address .. they soon learn.
Or .. Get yourself a couple Fenn traps and place them where they roost or feed.
These will fold the problem soon enough.

thanks OwenP, that's an interesting site.
the studies that reveal an increase in pigeon numbers after controlling is intersting but I can't help but think the pigeons in my garden are not part of a flock, there's just two of them - do you get isolated pigeons?
what is depressing about that site is that any of the pigeon control methods listed aren't viable or won't work, unless someone climbs the tree and removes the branches that they roost on or prevents them from landing on them with spikes/ other deterrents. I'm not sure how feasible/ costly that would be - to get someone to climb the tree and put spikes on it.
the tree is also in the neighbour's garden and is protected so there's no way it's coming down.

what I'd be inclined to do is lure them down with food and then peg them and see if it fixes the problem and for how long.
I am obviously keen to comply with regulations/ law, which is why I started this thread.

I'm sure I read a case where someone had been nailing quarry legal bird species in their back garden with a legal air rifle but were prosecuted because a neighbour complained (and they weren't complying with the terms of the General Licence presumably).

Or I could be talking total rollox, I do that sometimes. 😐

I would think that the pigeons will be part of a wider population.They will spread out as far as they can, as densely as they can, until food and/ or places to roost run out.

This is what makes shooting them a tricky one. As pigeons are removed, the ones that replace them may increase in number as they are more youthful/ breeding individuals, or just filling the vacuum in greater numbers as part of a rush for the suddenly-available resources.

In your case, that might mean more pigeon crap. Of course, if you keep on shooting them at a high rate they will go down in number, but you have to keep on and on and on doing it. The pigeons keep breeding/ relocating to fill the void, so i guess it would be a battle of who gets bored first.

As for putting down food - you will be drawing in more pigeons, so killing them from a wider area, but it just scales up your localised issue into a larger one. Unless you have a use for lots of dead pigeons (i'm assuming feral pigeons?) then its a lot of ongoing work.

Like DrRS**** said, removing the perch causing the problem is probably the best way for least effort.

I wouldn't care if they just used a different tree in the garden, there are plenty! but the one they choose to roost in just happens to be one from which crapping causes the most inconvenient mess.

maybe the best solution is to put some deterrents in the tree to stop them roosting there. how much would it cost to hire a tree climber for a day to stick some spikes on the branches? not cheap I'd imagine.

You really need to get your neighbours on board, as the sound of air rifle pellets whistling overhead when you're working in your garden is a little bit disconcerting to say the least, speaking from experience.

get up the tree and put some nails in the branches they roost on

what could possibly go wrong ?

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Zero sights to pre-defined range in garden, shooting down from bedroom window. Put down grain and some twigs so that the birds have a sense of being in 'cover'. Leave window open with dense pillow or beanbag on sill or small table inside. Partly draw curtains so that when you approach the window and aim you are not observed. Take your time to get a safe clean shot, ensuring that any mis goes into the lawn / soft substrate. Moderated muzzle should not extend beyond window line, ideally the window should be opened only enough to allow a clean shot, and sound will be further dampened within room / by curtains...shoot as some other background noise arises if there is sensitivity over this.

and use a bazooka.

or call the neighbors and tell them to all get on the floor, then fire a Claymore Mine--no more pigeons-----and you've trimmed the tree as well

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I had one yesterday. Before I could pick it up a bloody buzzard had it!

I would;

1) Get neighbours on board and happy that you will be undertaking some pest control work.
2) Get some decent hollow point pellets.
3) Practice shooting with said pellets until you can consistently shoot a group no bigger than a 10 pence piece and be able to do so at different ranges.
4) Try using decoy pigeons on the ground to lure them out of the tree.
[url= http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/280836337756?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&adtype=pla ]Decoys[/url]

I think the most important thing here is to make sure your neighbours understand what you are doing and why. Even if you do everything correctly and legally it will be a pain to have to deal with grumpy neighbours and the police.

hmmm, decoys.
Thanks BigEaredBiker, that's some good advice.

[url= http://www.pet-supermarket.co.uk/products-Stv-Falcon-Decoy_HB6220.htm?gclid=CPzG1OGX2rECFYQhtAodxRsA7Q ]this[/url] might be worth a try...

I've read that they quickly become accustomed to those types of deterrents.

I was working in central London last week and noticed a hawk kite attached to a pole on an adjacent building. It was flying pretty well and I did not notice any pigeons about so it may be worth trying.

http://www.pigeonstop.co.uk/hawk_kite_bird_scarer_kit.asp

You say that the pigeons roost on a tree in your neighbours garden - I guess that branches overhang your garden? - could you ask the neighbour to trim the branches?

You could also try bird repellent

http://www.pigeonstop.co.uk/bird_repellent_liquid_1_us_gallon_3.8_litres.asp

n the end I took the tree down they were roosting in

This. Everyone around our way who shoots pigeons does it for fun or eating rather than pest control. Much like rats - you need to remove the reason for them to be there or others just take their place.

it's a massive tree, must be 25m tall - higher than the 5 storey town house that I live in.
the pigeons roost at the very top on some thin branches - I'm not sure if a tree climber could actually access the branches and I don't see that cutting the branches is viable but it's worth checking.

can you not lure them to the ground (grain etc) and shoot down to the bottom of the fence, in todays climate I'd probably not want to be seen leaning out of an upstairs window with a gun

alternatively why not get creative and use the good ole RSPB/twitcher/ringer - ground decoy, net and explosives carry on (*well some washing line props, over centre cammed and a rope as a trigger or something similar to deploy the net quickly) or even a box balanced on a stick, some grain under,with a rope attached

have you tried painting some eyes/hawk silhouettes on the garden or even a bird kite shaped thing hanging free etc

edit - make a crow trap (baited mesh box with hole in roof[bit bigger than bird and wingspan) they seem be able to fly in but can't get up and out (well was used to kill crows on sheep farms)

or could you make a sort of lobster pot type baited box with a one way entry

edit *apparently grain soaked in alcohol limits their flying ability

Use arrows with a bit of fishing line tied to the end that's just the right length that they can't go further than the end of your garden?

yeah, I've decided that shooting them out of a tree is not a good approach given the proximity of adjacent gardens.

not sure I want to dispatch a load of pigeons flapping in a box - I'd rather kill them from a distance. plus I'm worried that putting grain down will attract other nefarious bastards to my garden.

Use arrows with a bit of fishing line tied to the end that's just the right length that they can't go further than the end of your garden?

I like your thinking. could I tie bits of string to rifle pellets?

I have learnt things on this and previous threads about the law on shooting pigeons that I was blissfully unaware of. I guess the overall intention is safety, but seems a little strange that we give basic vermin so much protection.

When were these laws introduced? I don't recall them in my youth when shooting pigeons with airguns was a popular hobby where I lived.

I suspect the protection is there to prevent collateral damage;

[i]Hunting season has just finished in Italy and it's been a dangerous few months for boar, birds, hunters—and bystanders. Some 35 people have been killed in hunting accidents since October:[/i]

[url= http://www.newser.com/story/111068/italian-hunters-face-crackdown-after-killing-35.html ]http://www.newser.com/story/111068/italian-hunters-face-crackdown-after-killing-35.html[/url]

put the grain down on plastic/weed inhibitor mesh etc surface etc so you can clean it up quickly

re flapping in a box, what would you do if you winged/injured one - leave it to die slowly and painfully ?

sorry for this but if you're not prepared to wring necks as required then I'd suggest you should get someone else to do it for you

sorry double post ... ? browser didn't refresh

I reckon anti pigeon spikes would do the job.

http://www.thepestshop.co.uk/plastic-pigeon-spikes-5m-pack?language=en&currency=GBP

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Plenty around if you google, and would be quick work for a tree surgeon to tack them to a branch or two. I'll bet they come in brown too.

Im guessing more will turn up after you've shot the first lot and if your going to be shooting them over a period of time then somebodys going to complain sooner or later. You could try a dummy hawk moved around the garden. You might consider cutting down the tree or moving the decking. Have you got a good food source nearby such as a bakery that leaves waste outside etc. Moving a good food source would help. I grew up in the country with riffles, shotguns & airguns. There was an old saying my old man used to say to me "Although a good shot you may be, never shoot where you can't see". This means dont shoot at something against a hedge or on the brow of a hill ect because if you miss there may be something behind. You never shot up into the air with a riffle and I would say it would be good practise not to do it with an air gun in a built up area. good luck!

34 hunters and 1 mushroom picker.

Shame about the mushroom picker.

Assuming not everyone eats them what do all you pigeon shooters do with the bodies? I'm thinking the Daily Mail would get involved if the dustbin man found a pile of corpses in the wheelie bin and the neighbours twitchy curtains would be going full-time if you we digging lots of little holes all over the garden.

Markie, I can't tell but was that a joke?

Use energy weapons

http://www.youtube.com/embed/CgJ0EpxjZBU

but do not blame me if you are prosecuted!

1) Get neighbours on board and happy that you will be undertaking some pest control work.
2) Get some decent hollow point pellets.
3) Practice shooting with said pellets until you can consistently shoot a group no bigger than a 10 pence piece and be able to do so at different ranges.
4) Try using decoy pigeons on the ground to lure them out of the tree.

THIS IS ****ING SUCH A STUPID THREAD. JUST SHOOT THE ****ERS. JESUS CHRIST.

Nobody is going to come and tell you off and if you do...just tell them to piss off.