[Closed] Shooting in Paris; casualties reported. Hope this isn't what it sounds like.

Are any of them state armies?

It's a reasonable point. If for example there were a couple of similar attacks in the UK and it was shown that better "snooping" powers would have possibly have prevented them where is the balance to be placed between privacy and terrorism prevention?

It is a reasonable point to be made at an appropriate time and place. Not while blood is still being spilled.

I see Farage and his supporters are out in force on social media

I've even seen Enoch Powell quotes being banded around

Toads everywhere

People are dead and dying, how people can be thinking of anything else is beyond me

This is what really gripes me.
The state will use this to promote its credentials of protector of the people, meaning even more security intrusions.
But the state is responsible for this mess, not least through a series of utterly stupid foreign policy interventions.
War made the state and the state made war.

The Iraqi and Syrian armies. Supported by Iran, Jordan and Lebanon/Hezbollah.

It is Saudi that needs to join in the support as this is where a lot of the support for IS and fundamentalist ideas come from. The other states have slightly different religious views and so their views mean nothing to IS.

We could also do with the Chilcot report coming out and Blair being done for war crimes...

[Saudi needs to lend] support as this is where a lot of the support for IS and fundamentalist ideas come from. The other states have slightly different religious views and so their views mean nothing to IS.

In any case, Saudi Arabia is too busy destroying Yemen to get very Involved in Syria. And do we want the Saudi regime to get involved in solving Islamic militancy around the world? Naah

My thoughts are with the people of France, more particularly the people of Paris and especially those innocents killed and wounded as well as those bereaved by this atrocity.

As many other have said, I find these actions incomprehensible. It is an emotional response on my part but human conduct seems to be regressing, becoming more barbaric and feral.

I've had La Marseillaise running around my head all morning and these apposite words in particular:

Allons les enfants de la Patrie ... contre nous de la tyrannie ... C'est nous qu'on ose méditer ... De rendre à l'antique esclavage

Aux armes, citoyens...

I see Newt Gingrich believes the answer is more guns - ****ing bell-end apologist for the gun lobby/NRA

[url= http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/11/twitter-paris-attacks ]Newt Gingrich and his call to arm everyone[/url]

To be fair to Newt Gingrich, he thinks the answer to absolutely everything, including global warming, which doesn't actually exist, is 'more guns'

I'll give him this... the man's consistent

On a serious note, as adults we become kind of hardened, and slightly desensitised to this kind of thing, and to some degree it loses its desired impact. We're still horrified, but are we scared? Probably not really, on a personal level

However... this is the first terrorist atrocity that my 11 year old has been old enough to really comprehend. I've just had her really upset, snuggled up to me, saying 'daddy, I'm scared. This won't happen here, will it?'

So we've sat the 2 of them down over lunch (her sister is 8), and explained to them how its not going to happen here, and that they're perfectly safe, and they shouldn't worry. But it makes you realise that its called terrorism for a reason. And it works. Its not just the people it impacts directly. Its the fear and division it spreads though wider society

explained to them how its not going to happen here,

Can you explain that to me as well please?

Just seen on the news someone arrested at Gatwick trying to leave a suspicious package in one of the terminals...
No confirmation as to whether it's a bomb, it wouldn't surprise me though

War made the state and the state made war.

So we're to blame for all of this? Rather simplistic - look around the world and it's a mess everywhere. Every nation has it's own ideals - and in various ways we are prepared to fight for them. Would you be prepared to live under Sharia Law, in a state where women are oppressed, gay men and women are killed? I wouldn't.

I don't think there is an answer to this - for the next few decades this will be just the way it is. It seems every 'solution' has consequences.

blimey that footage from behind the bataclan is hard viewing

explained to them how its not going to happen here,

Can you explain that to me as well please?

Its not that I believe it won't happen. But as a small town in East Lancashire. I suspect we're not high on the ISIS hit list. Central London is probably as big a target as Paris though.

Theres that, and not wanting my daughters scared witless by hysterical tabloid nonsense when statistically they're about as likely to be the victims of terrorism, as they are from falling grand piano's

EDIT: She's jus been in crying gain, saying she's still scared. Do you fancy coming round and informing her how [b]WE"RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!!!! PANIIIIIIIIIIIIIC!!!!!!!!![/b]

🙄

Central London is probably as big a target as Paris though.

I'm not sure why they go for harder guarded targets like London and Paris - they could go to somewhere like Derby in a few weeks during Xmas shopping, walk into the shopping centre unhindered and cause as many or more casualties.

So what will happen next? The elephant in the room is perhaps too horrifically ugly to talk about, but Hollande already says that France is "at war" and the noises being made by the Russian Foreign Minister (in Vienna on Monday for talks) seem to be a step in a worrying direction. I feel we have been living between the wars and this pause is now coming to an end.

Its not that I believe it won't happen. But as a small town in East Lancashire. I suspect we're not high on the ISIS hit list. Central London is probably as big a target as Paris though.

Fair enough, in that context that makes sense.

However, if "here" is the UK then I would suggest that an attack in London, or possibly another major city, is very likely.

EDIT: She's jus been in crying gain, saying she's still scared. Do you fancy coming round and informing her how WE"RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!!!! PANIIIIIIIIIIIIIC!!!!!!!!!

I never said that.

It is terrible news.
What reaction has there been from the uk Muslim community?
I think I would be organising a "Not in the name of Islam " rally.
Letting the nutters know they are deluded and not supported by their communities must be the first step.

Well the French Muslim Council condemned it pretty clearly and quickly.

I wouldn't want to be organising any 'not in my name' rallies if I was a muslim today..
Do we expect local church groups to mobilise when a christian nutjob kicks off somewhere? The W.I.? The local boys choir?

Islamophobes are despicably ugly and ignorant creatures at the best of times, let alone on a day like today.. I'd be laying low if I was a muslim this arvo

Anyone going to a vigil tonight?

Faith communities, including the Christian-Muslim Forum and the Muslim Council of Britain, have organised a silent vigil at Trafalgar Square at 6:30pm tonight, to remember those who have been killed in Paris. Attendees will be coming to bring tea lights and blue, white and red flowers.

[url] http://www.mcb.org.uk/vigil-in-solidarity-with-the-people-of-paris/ [/url]

The elephant in the room is perhaps too horrifically ugly to talk about, but Hollande already says that France is "at war"

Article five?

If the perpetrators can be positively linked to Isis/Syria rather than domestic Islamic extremists supporting Isis then invoking it could really shake things up. There is of course precedent from 9/11 here too.

Things will kick off soon by the look of things ...

If Hollande does not act then he will be viewed as a donkey in the French eyes.

Do we expect local church groups to mobilise when a christian nutjob kicks off somewhere? The W.I.? The local boys choir?

Was saddened last night when all this unfolded, saddened even more now as the realisation settled in.

Do we expect local church groups to mobilise when a christian nutjob kicks off somewhere?

There are plenty of Christian nut jobs doing crazy stuff.

But when was the last time a terrorist act was committed in the "name" of a Christian Church, particularly with the final amibtion of the destruction of a non-Christian religion?

As per other comments, Saudi is the home of extremism we accept it because of the trading links.

I'm not sure why they go for harder guarded targets like London and Paris - they could go to somewhere like Derby in a few weeks during Xmas shopping, walk into the shopping centre unhindered and cause as many or more casualties.

A person can enter any town in any country as we dont have police checkpoints/body searches enroute.

As for Muslims condemning them its on their website , its on facebook so perhaps its because you dont read these places

We are profoundly saddened by the loss of innocent lives in Paris, and our deepest condolences are with the family and friends of the victims, and the French nation.

Britons of all backgrounds, of every faith, every denomination, and none, are horrified by what we have learned, and are determined that those who seek to divide our diverse and peaceful communities in Europe will not succeed.

There is no justification for murder, and all British faith communities agree that those who commit acts of violence cannot do so in the name of any faith. Any such claim is illegitimate.

British Muslim communities are equally appalled by the violence, and angered by those who commit abhorrent acts in the name of religion. The perpetrators do not represent us; their views are perverse and self-serving.

We urge all communities in Britain and France to stand firm with compassion and solidarity. We must not let these terrorists divide us, otherwise the terrorists will win. Let us not play into their divisive narrative, and instead show them that people of all faiths and none can live peacefully, together.

Like the terrorists who want to divide communities, there will be some in the days ahead who will try to use this atrocity to attack innocent people. We equally reject their intentions.

It is evil people who do evil things; such acts will only increase our resolve to remain united.

+Lots of folk signing it

But when was the last time a terrorist act was committed in the "name" of a Christian Church, particularly with the final amibtion of the destruction of a non-Christian religion?

Well there are white supremacist attacks fairly often and I dont feel any social pressure to point out that I am white but have nothing to do with folk like this and despise everything they say

Why do Muslims need to condemn this its a given that "any right thinking person" condemns it.
I dont need to ask them ,the RNLI, the British Legion or the AA what they think of it as i know.

wilburt - Member

As per other comments, Saudi is the home of extremism we accept it because of the trading links.

That place will return to the rightful owner the desert sand in future once all these troubles are over - It's not a matter of if but when (I am referring to their objective of world domination and when the world takes action against them in future - not a single event like in Paris but multiple events over the world).

Junkyard - lazarus

It is evil people who do evil things; such acts will only increase our resolve to remain united.

+Lots of folk signing it

If evil people do evil things - take them out!

What's the point of pussy footing singing about it? This is not a musical competition you know.

I don't need to ask them what they think of it as I know

Precisely
But as I pointed out, Islamophobes are a sickeningly ignorant bunch 🙁

Why do Muslims need to condemn this its a given that "any right thinking person" condemns it.

A man with a pedal-towed piano turned up at the concert hall and played Imagine.

There's no enough condemnations in the world to satisfy people that have already decided to blame Muslims.

Why weren't rando Americans asked to condemn the deliberate bombing of civilian hospitals?

But when was the last time a terrorist act was committed in the "name" of a Christian Church, particularly with the final amibtion of the destruction of a non-Christian religion?

I don't remember being asked to condemn it because I'm a Christian

konabunny - Member
I don't remember being asked to condemn it because I'm a Christian

Are you Christian? Do you go to Church? Are you a believer as in God creation?

If not then there is nothing to do with you (assuming STW rationality of science) however having sympathy and trying to help another being is a good thing ...

Posted on the other thread too

One terrorist confirmed as Syrian who passed through Greece as a registered refugee - AFP/Reuters/Sky

Anyone going to a vigil tonight?

Nah I've changed my profile on Facebook to me covered in a French flag, that's enough

One terrorist confirmed as Syrian who passed through Greece as a registered refugee - AFP/Reuters/Sky

To be precise, one passport found at the scene on the body of one of the attackers. Not confirmed it was his passport.

Because "I'm going on a suicide mission, better take my real passport" isn't the first thing you'd expect a professional terrorist to think.

Well, there was that time Orthodox fanatics killed 8,000 Muslims in the middle of Europe: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre br />
I don't remember being asked to condemn it because I'm a Christian

You didn't need to as your Government did it for you and the UN.

If you remember there was heavy criticism of the Dutch peace keepers who pulled out and basically left them to it.

So the fact that every Muslim government including Iran, plus Hamas and Islamic Jihad have condemned the attacks means we can stop going on about wanting ordinary Muslims to as well.

...heavy criticism of the Dutch peace keepers who pulled out and basically left them to it...

Tbf, while the situation wasn't black and white, I don't remember anyone criticising the "Dutch Christians" who left them to it.