[Closed] Shooting in Paris; casualties reported. Hope this isn't what it sounds like.

jambalaya - Member

Posted on the other thread too

One terrorist confirmed as Syrian who passed through Greece as a registered refugee - AFP/Reuters/Sky

[b]NO WAY?![/b] You're telling me that in the biggest migration seen since the second world war, amid the utter chaos of a war zone best by various factions of armed-to-the-teeth psychotic lunatics, as millions flea an entire region thats dissolved into anarchy, into another region without borders, completely unprepared to deal with it, that somehow, though god only knows how, ISIS has managed to smuggle a terrorist in

Well **** me! They're cleverer than I thought! How the hell did they manage that? The devious bastards!

You didn't need to as your Government did it for you and the UN.

What reaction has there been from the uk Muslim community?

(It's stupid to talk about a UK Muslim community anyway, as there isn't one single community.

Because "I'm going on a suicide mission, better take my real passport" isn't the first thing you'd expect a professional terrorist to think.

All family and friends safe but have heard a very sad story. There will be many to come out I'm sure. A lot of teenagers where at the concert.

The terrorists want their real identities to be known, as far as they and sympathisers are concerned they are doing something worthy of a very great honour

better take my real passport

Hmm, there's two questions there though aren't there?

I) did the Syrian passport actually belong to the perpetrator (ie. was the person identified in the passport the person who blew himself up)

Ii) even if it [b]wasn't[/b] actually *his*, was the perpetrator a foreign national who used that passport to enter the EU on the basis of being a Syrian refugee.

Both the above leave open the vital question of border security, and the possibility/probability/inevetability that terrorists are entering the EU claiming refugee status.

Both, arguably, also support the argument that was being made by the 'right wing nutters' some time ago that people seeking to enter the EU as refugees ought to be quarantined and processed carefully rather than just allowed to enter.

Righteo - just seen this point of view posted elsewhere - said that nuclear weapons obviously don't deter our current gretest threat, so wh are we spending an absolute fortune on replacing them?

Nuclear weapons - because who knows what threats will arise in the future? Because who knows how other nuclear powers - Russia, China, would react if we ditched ours?

About 15 years ago sections of military intelligence were saying that conflicts would be more guerrilla action than toe to toe big guns.

Sometimes I despair of humanity. Able to make you weep with pride and anger.

There's an iman on TF1, his condemnation is in stronger terms than François Hollande last night. "Il faut sanctionner les lieux de prière qui sont les lieux de haine".

Edit: "We must punish places of worship that are places of hate".

Punishing the hate sites - good plan.

said that nuclear weapons obviously don't deter our current gretest threat, so wh are we spending an absolute fortune on replacing them?

[u]Current[/u]

Doesn't mean that it's our [u]only[/u] threat, doesn't mean nuclear weapons are our [u]only[/u] response, doesn't mean that they are our [u]only[/u] deterrence.

The concept of deterrence is focused around a variety of different potential threats and responses, to dismiss it as 'we have nuclear weapons and they haven't deterred terrorist attacks' given that they represent about 6-7% of the (bit under) 2% of GDP that we spend on defence (plus a bit under 1% of GDP on foreign aid) is to state that 'we also have planes, bombs, guns, soldiers, submarines, foreign aid, immigration, emigration, education, medical aid programmes and debt relief, but none of them deterred it either'

We had nuclear weapons in the Cold War, I don't think we ever suggested that they were a deterrence against IRA terrorism, nor would I suggest that we would have ever seen them as a proportionate response to IRA terrorism however terrorism was not the only threat that we faced during the Cold War (even though we recognise that the arming and funding of the IRA was, in part, an aspect of the Cold War, given KGB funding etc.) nor is it the only threat we face today, or may face in the future.

Nuclear weapons are a means to 'mutual assured destruction'and nothing else.

I for one am willing to point every WMD at every Marmite factory in the world, if it wasn't for the risk of super heated Marmite raining down from the skies and smothering me to death (and beyond)

What's the motivation, other than spreading terror via fear?.

Do ISIS/ISIL have an interest in stopping the mass migration for the Middle East into Europe?. This event will give a few governments who are looking for an excuse to shut their borders to do exactly that.

Nobeerinthefridge - Member

What's the motivation, other than spreading terror via fear?.

Do ISIS/ISIL have an interest in stopping the mass migration for the Middle East into Europe?. This event will give a few governments who are looking for an excuse to shut their borders to do exactly that.

Even in fundamentalist terms, they are an extreme group. People use the term death cult, there's a good PDF on them, link please. They want to incite a holy war. This attack rightly or wrongly alienate Muslims, increase police and military pressure on those communities and obviously embolden racists, white supremacists....

I would imagine attacks like this will make it more difficult for refugees to easily integrate into western European societies and increase the chances that some of them will be marginalised/radicalised.

It may also lead to further western military in Syria/Iraq leading to further protracted fighting and total war in the middle east. Who knows.

I think you're right and that that's exactly what these headbangers want. They're actively seeking the final confrontation (unlike btw the Taleban).

Headbangers is about right- this is from earlier this year, and should probably be essential reading; [url= http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/ ]Atlantic article[/url]

Also, the best response I've seen, from Charlie Hebdo's cartoonist, Joann Starr:[img] https://flic.kr/p/B68nQF [/img]

This made a really shit situation even worse..

[IMG] [/IMG]

Complete and utter twunt.

If you want terrorism* to end you need terrorists to stop and reverse their previously held positions. Its surely proof that peace and reconciliation can happen,.

* I know that debate and I am just using that word here to reply.

Don't follow the herd and add the tricolour to your facebook page it means nothing ,neither will prayers

this is from earlier this year, and should probably be essential reading; Atlantic article

As a map person the map in that was interesting and led me to this, might be of interest to some,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-27838034

None of this would be happening if Blair and Bush and their chums hadn't invaded Iraq after the old black gold. Some mainstream reading for anyone interested, rather than bickering

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/oct/25/tony-blair-is-right-without-the-iraq-war-there-would-be-no-isis
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/03/us-isis-syria-iraq
http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/did-george-w-bush-create-isis

Both, arguably, also support the argument that was being made by the 'right wing nutters' some time ago that people seeking to enter the EU as refugees ought to be quarantined and processed carefully rather than just allowed to enter.

The first properly identified terrorist is French, it is going to be a logistical nightmare interning the whole of France and processing them to make sure they are not terrorists.

There you go Johnny
[url= https://farm1.staticflickr.com/673/23030508611_761e8bf90c.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm1.staticflickr.com/673/23030508611_761e8bf90c.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/B68nQF ]Untitled[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/woodwings75/ ]John Woodings[/url], on Flickr

Don't follow the herd and add the tricolour to your facebook page it means nothing ,neither will prayers

Just about everyone on FB has gone Tricolour, I don't get it or see what it achieves either. I did however share this from a person I have never met or known

you never think it will happen to you. It was just a friday night at a rock show. the atmosphere was so happy and everyone was dancing and smiling. and then when the men came through the front entrance and began the shooting, we naiively believed it was all part of the show. It wasn't just a terrorist attack, it was a massacre. Dozens of people were shot right infront of me. Pools of blood filled the floor. Cries of grown men who held their girlfriends dead bodies pierced the small music venue. Futures demolished, families heartbroken. in an instant. Shocked and alone, I pretended to be dead for over an hour, lying among people who could see their loved ones motionless.. Holding my breath, trying to not move, not cry - not giving those men the fear they longed to see. I was incredibly lucky to survive. But so many didn't. The people who had been there for the exact same reasons as I - to have a fun friday night were innocent. This world is cruel. And acts like this are suppose to highlight the depravity of humans and the images of those men circuling us like vultures will haunt me for the rest of my life. The way they meticoulsy aimed at shot people around the standing area i was in the centre of without any consideration for human life. It didn't feel real. i expected any moment for someone to say it was just a nightmare. But being a survivor of this horror lets me able to shed light on the heroes. To the man who reassured me and put his life on line to try and cover my brain whilst i whimpered, to the couple whose last words of love kept me believing the good in the world, to the police who succeded in rescuing hundreds of people, to the complete strangers who picked me up from the road and consoled me during the 45 minutes I truly believed the boy i loved was dead, to the injured man who i had mistaken for him and then on my recognition that he was not Amaury, held me and told me everything was going to be fine despite being all alone and scared himself, to the woman who opened her doors to the survivors, to the friend who offered me shelter and went out to buy new clothes so i wouldnt have to wear this blood stained top, to all of you who have sent caring messages of support - you make me believe this world has the potential to be better. to never let this happen again. but most of this is to the 80 people who were murdered inside that venue, who weren't as lucky, who didnt get to wake up today and to all the pain that their friends and families are going through. I am so sorry. There's nothing that will fix the pain. I feel priviledged to be there for their last breaths. And truly beliving that I would join them, I promise that their last thoughts were not on the animals who caused all this. It was thinking of the people they loved. As i lay down in the blood of strangers and waiting for my bullet to end my mere 22 years, I envisioned every face that I have ever loved and whispered I love you. over and over again. reflecting on the highlights of my life. Wishing that those i love knew just how much, wishing that they knew that no matter what happened to me, to keep belieivng in the good in people. to not let those men win. Last night, the lives of many were forever changed and it is up to us to be better people. to live lives that the innocent victims of this tragedy dreamt about but sadly will now never be able to fulfil. RIP angels. You will never be forgotten.

RIP

The West walked into a trap after 9/11 by invading Iraq and getting more involved in the middle-east. These actions have destabalised the region and radicalised more of the middle-eastern and domestic muslim population.
And in response to this attack, we will get yet more military intervention from our leaders.
But the state does win from this - it gains greater powers of control and surveillance and can use fear politically.

Properly got the BBC this terrible situation.

They've even sent Louise Minchin there to stand next to a barrier and a set of traffic lights 😐

I spoke to my friends last night who live on the outskirts of the 9th/10th Arr (we stayed with them last weekend) both are saying there's a quiet unease about the place, more intense than when the CharileH atrocity happened 😕 I do feel for them, normal French city life revolves around eating and drinking in outside cafes

Very very saddened by this.

Just about everyone on FB has gone Tricolour, I don't get it or see what it achieves either. I did however share this from a person I have never met or known

It's a mark of respect and solidarity, it's not about achieving anything or following the herd. Really no different to sharing a story with a pic of a vest on it apart from it's more tasteful.

Don't follow the herd and add the tricolour to your facebook page it means nothing ,neither will prayers

Thanks for the "advice" and excuse me if I chose to ignore. Each to theirnown including praying if you so wish for the victims in Paris and in Beiruit on Thursday especially as the latter faield to generate column inches.

Never understood the need to have news reporters in loco. Adds nothing to the story having Huw Edwards standing outside in Paris desperately trying to fill time with bland statements.

Jon Snow reporting that the two Syrian passports are fakes.

This made a really shit situation even worse..

What?

A democratically elected politician comments on a World event and expresses sympathy for the victims. This has made things worse? How exactly?

Thank you for posting that FunkyDunc. Very moving

One worrying trend I've noticed over the past day is the increase in extreme postings on Facebook. Friends liking and sharing vile drivel from the likes of Britain First etc. I'd never really heard of this lot before. Had a look on their Facebook page...Blimey. I've never seen such vile racism spouted. The worst part is the sometimes hidden underlying racism and general nastiness that they spout. Makes Farage look like Corbyn! All coming from friends who have always seemd like normal, intelegent, well balanced people.

I've even had people sharing Putin speeches...apparently his idea of running a country is the way forward. Sad, sad times.

I'd just assumed lots of people were acting like Alf Garnett in memory of Warren Mitchell. Maybe not...

Thanks FunkyDunc.

Whatever else might shake my view of humanity, my belief in the decency of ordinary human beings will only ever deepen.

Haha! DD.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/107516

FFS 🙄

[img] [/img]

Looking at the geographic breakdown of that petition, it seems people on the isle of Arran have very strong views on immigration... Weird.

Funcy Dunc that piece was very very moving, might I be bold enough to ask where you came across it and who was the author?

As to the atrocities I fear we have only our own governance to blame, if you must wage war in a cowardly fashion video game style via drones and covert methods, you can hardly expect your enemy not to act in a similarly cowardly manner. I really fear for the future, it will not be long before it occurs here again.

I have also 'gone with the herd' on facebook it's just a way of showing empathy, not a bad thing at a time like this some might also judge it as defiance, but I'll go with empathy.

Funcy Dunc that piece was very very moving, might I be bold enough to ask where you came across it and who was the author?

It pops up on Facebook.

Twitter suggesting something akin to retaliation in Raqqa tonight!?

@piemonster, French TV reporting massive French military bombardment of Raqqa. We are watching BFMTV

@monkey France's declaration of a state of emergency means they can shut the border whenever they wish. Talk of border controls being introduced for minimum 3 months. Car stopped in Germany 10 days ago full of AK47's and ammunition with SatNav set to Paris. Some confusion about who the Germans told about this.

[url= http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_round_up/2986289/israel_to_annex_golan_heights_after_billion_barrel_oil_find.html ]http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_round_up/2986289/israel_to_annex_golan_heights_after_billion_barrel_oil_find.html[/url]

The plot thickens

Looking at the geographic breakdown of that petition, it seems people on the isle of Arran have very strong views on immigration... Weird.

It is a bit odd - more gratifyingly, where I live is second-lightest colour. But still depressing there are that many stupid people walking among us.

One worrying trend I've noticed over the past day is the increase in extreme postings on Facebook.

I had one come up on my facebook today that I actually reported. It was a guy saying "I'm going to Blackburn with my shotgun see how they like it", "Have it Muslim bastards" and "I can make my own bombs", however Facebook didn't find these statements as offensive as the female nipple and wouldn't take action. Amazing.