[Closed] shooterists, which air rifles...

Assuming you have somewhere to shoot it - bother, get yourself an FAC and a .22 rimfire, loads kicking about cheap as chips and Ammo costs pennies.

You can shoot an air rifle in most back gardens (or even in the house - I do!!) - a .22 rimfire - not so much 🙂

I would be looking at .177 if you are just doing target stuff and not using it for hunting.

There are loads out there and if your son will be using it then best to get something with a stock that will fit him. Probably worth a trip to a local place to see what they have, stick to decent brands and you won't go far wrong.

You can't go far wrong with an Air Arms TX200.

Assuming you have somewhere to shoot it - bother, get yourself an FAC and a .22 rimfire, loads kicking about cheap as chips and Ammo costs pennies.

If he'd asked what hardtail to get, would you have recommended a helicopter?? Jeez... 🙄

I have a Weihrauch HW97 that is simply fantastic. I think I paid about £250 for it second hand but it was 'as new'.

Did a lot of research at the time, I wanted a springer so it's always ready when a squirrel appears - I've had an HW100 in the past which was amazing but didn't need the faff of gas bottles etc.

Basically, it boils down to 2 guns - the HW97 or the Airarms TX200. The HW97 felt much more balanced to me - quite weighty but not difficult to hold a sightmark due to the way the weight is spread... That may be quite objective but it was a big deciding factor.

The Airarms was a good gun, but felt a bit 'Ford' compared to the Weihrauch's BMW build quality.

I've always had .22 and been happy enough. The standard HW77 will stop anything you need with a .22, if you're only shooting target, .177 will save you a bit of money on pellets, but it's not going to make a huge difference.

I also used to have an HW97 - its a very substantial rifle and not that easy for a young person to cock. I also had an HW100KT - fantastic bit of kit but absolutely no challenge to shoot. If you hunt its great as the pellet always goes where you aim but for plinking its just boring. Easy for a kid to shoot though. No open sights on either of those rifles though which might be limiting if you fancy a challenge!

The two underlevers mentioned (HW97 and TX200) are both superb. I would plump for the HW97 over the TX200 on the basis of balance when held in the shoulder, but otherwise not much in it.

I have an Air Arms Pro Sport which is a lovely looking thing, brilliantly accurate, but not as easy to cock and more expensive than the other two.

None of them would be easy for a little'un to shoot without a rest though. Does it have to be an underlever? A friend bought an HW80 for his son which is a brilliant break barrel for juniors (and Dads have been known to enjoy it too!)

Both the rach and the TX are pretty hefty

Theoben Fenman. Little recoil, light rifle perfect for dad n lad

Why not try looking at 2nd hand. you'll get a good pcp rifle for under £400 if you look around.

Am an Air Arms S410 owner myself but recently purchased a 2nd hand Hatsen (plastic stock) with silencer and reasonable scope for £350 on behalf of a friend. A great vermin controller (rats).

Might be an idea to get the gun that suits you, and a cheap s/h break-barrel like a BSA Meteor for the lad. You're going to struggle to find something that suits both of you.

And make him learn [url= http://basc.org.uk/youngshots/a-fathers-advice/ ]this[/url] before you let him loose with any gun. My dad did, and I can still remember it word for word!

thanks for the replies. second hand is the market i am looking at, tho i will buy new if i find a spanking bargain. will be heading to a couple of local shops to have a gander next week or so.
i am looking at underlever as i prefer the accuracy over a break barrel, second hand break barrels have seldom been well looked after in my, albeit historic, knowlege . i dont really want a pcp due to the cost and the faf of filling (no dive places near me and a pump is almost as much as a gas bottle) Minivader will learn to shoot on a stand, as i did at his age (8) , and when he is competent enough he will get his own junior rifle

i like that cyclingweakly

Also recommend Weihrauch or Air Arms if you must go spring. Think I sold my Falcon pcp with pump, spare mag n leather case for around £350 back in the day, so you could catch a pcp bargain if lucky. I'd still love a Theoben and a Steyr pistol 🙁

If you can shoot the difference between an under lever and a break barrel I take my hat off to you.

If you can shoot the difference between an under lever and a break barrel I take my hat off to you.

The difference is that sometimes your break-barrel will be bang on, other times it'll shoot low. Or high. They develop a bit of slop in the mechanism that makes them inaccurate. Underlever guns solve this problem by keeping the sightline exactly the same in relation to the barrel.

I used to be able to! It was the difference between a 10mm grouping at 10meters and a 20mm group, my old break barrel webley v an underlever that I borrowed.. That was then however (20+ years) when I was shooting 3 times a week. Tbh now I'll be lucky to hit a barn door!
Cyclingweakly is spot on

I used to have a Weihrauch HW97, great gun but as mentioned quite hefty. You would want to try it with your child first to see if they could hold it.

Consider getting a sandbag to support the forearm when firing if they can't hold it up initially. Its important you don't rest the gun on the sandbag as well, it teaches them bad habits, make sure they have the correct hold just the sandbag supports the forearm a little to take the weight.

Cheap plug but hey-ho.

I have a friend selling both a TX200 and HW90K (carbine) with scopes as part of an estate sale. .177 and .22 respectively IIRC, both will obviously need to get sent to a registered firearms dealer if you can't collect (Troon, SW Scotland). They are both nice guns though the HW90 is quite different to what I was used to and couldn't get to grips with it. Only turned both down because the Diana 52 felt a better fit (although it was the heaviest of the lot by far).

She also has pair of PCP's but obviously they will be a bit more (.20 Theoben MFR and .22 Falcon) plus a couple of pistols and a custom ratcatcher with PCP mod.

Beanbags are definitely a good call or a decent bipod, especially if its heavy.

Consider getting a sandbag to support the forearm when firing if they can't hold it up initially. Its important you don't rest the gun on the sandbag as well, it teaches them bad habits, make sure they have the correct hold just the sandbag supports the forearm a little to take the weight.

Not sure how bean bag is a bad habit, plenty of folk use them, no different to a bipod really unless you want to get into the pretentious Bisley crowd with the shooting shoes, shooting gloves, shooting jacket, eyepatch, pirate hat...

Pm sent squirrelking... Interested in the tx

I'm aware of the theoretical difference but a GOOD break barrel will be just as accurate as any UL.
Pellet fussiness is more of a problem than floppy barrels.

My Theoben is 20 years old next month and still as accurate and tight as ever

I'm aware of the theoretical difference but a GOOD break barrel will be just as accurate as any UL.

No. No it won't. Ever.

Both a BB and UL are gonna be more accurate than the person shooting them. A PCP is obv more accurate than either due to lack of recoil.

My AA Pro-Elite was the most accurate gun I had the pleasure of shooting. Break barrel, spring powered..

Both a BB and UL are gonna be more accurate than the person shooting them. A PCP is obv more accurate than either due to lack of recoil.

Have you ever shot an air rifle?? A gun is consistently accurate, or it's not. It's not hard to shoot an accurate gun accurately, but if it's not consistent, you'll never be able to shoot it well!

And recoil doesn't make springers less accurate. PCPs are lighter so some people find them easier to handle, but I'm just as accurate with my HW97 as I was with my HW100.

And recoil doesn't make springers less accurate. PCPs are lighter so some people find them easier to handle, but I'm just as accurate with my HW97 as I was with my HW100.

I'd agree, .50 cal sniper rifles recoil a lot, doesn't make them less accurate.

It does mean the firer needs to apply the marksmanship principles and natural point of aim more religiously if they want to replicate the shots and group well.

I have an HW77 in .22 and they are very good. Wouldn't be my first choice if I was still shooting competitively but otherwise it's great.

Just seen a couple of hw97's on gunstar for very very good prices... Have given them an email. Let's see what comes of it...

Would love to have an air rifle again. Lots of fond memories of us lot shooting at each other. 😯
A couple of mates both had Wiehrauch rifles and they both had their ends of a finger snipped by accidentally pulling the trigger while loading a pellet.
This was late eighties so what model could that have been?
Can still here the screams for mummy. 🙂

Ah, the old underlever bear trap!!! I knew a few that got caught that way! 😆

feinwerkbau were always better then wierauch in my day, 30 years ago since i last shot properly, target comps etc . old man still has mine, has been tweaked for smoothness balance etc. still very nice with scope on.

There are some damn awful answers on this thread.

I'm a very experienced shooter of FAC and air and would recommend a Weihrauch HW57. Quality build, ace trigger and relatively lightweight. Dead accurate too.

Chorlton - HW77 with no anti bear trap I'd guess.

Have I shot an air rifle? More than you I'd hazard a guess.

Ok let's look at the facts a springer rifle whether UL or BB with a dirty great barrel has a relatively slow lock time and moving parts going in one direction (unless we're getting exotic with the likes of the TX200SR which has reduced recoil due to the sliding action or the totally bonkers chain driven Park RH93 with its opposing Pistons). Therefore the rifle is already recoiling whilst the bullet is travelling down the barrel, the resultant muzzle flip makes it harder to shoot than a PCP. If you were to solid bench rest either a UL or BB against a PCP the groupings would be diabolical.
If a PCP isn't less accurate then why are all the FT boys shooting PCP? It's not because they're light. The old Ripleys and Daystates weighed a ton.
Blaming a poor quality barrel catch on a springer being less accurate is like blaming shite scope mounts for bouncing around and making great granddaddys HW77K inaccurate. Shite quality is shite quality.
So we're back to my original point that either UL OR BB if a quality rifle is still more accurate than than the person pulling the trigger. I don't know what sloppy Chinese or Spanish break barrel stuff you're talking about.

So in conclusion much like owning an expensive bike that is more capable than anyone on this forum so is a good rifle no matter where you stick the pellet potentially more accurate than any person pulling the trigger

This thread brings back memories! Still got my old BSA Airsporter in the cupboard under the stairs. It's killed lots of rats that's for sure.
I think I paid about £35 for it, brand new. Bought it in a sports shop in Durham, took it home on the bus. Bout 1971-2?

And I still stand by my original suggestion of a Fenman, they're light rifles with the benefits of reduced recoil due to the HE floating piston, they have bugger all barrel so youngvader won't find it front heavy and the lock time is virtually zilch, and they're ambidextrous so if yv turns out to be a left hooker no problem. They're sought after and are likely to be better looked after than the average HW. Yes they're mildly pellet fussy, he may find it difficult to cock, the trigger is agricultural compared to the Rekord and they hold their value which is probably a good thing as in ten years time it'll be worth what he paid. If a Fenman is a hot hatch, the HW springers are Estate cars. Light n spritely vs lumbering, heavy and long.
And yes I've owned both, so am qualified to comment, in fact a HW90 mashup and a Venom tuned HW77K. And in typical STW fashion I'll recommend what I own, well it's smaller brother.

I got a HW97 a few months back from local ads for £150, good nick and very accurate but very heavy and probably too much for young people to start with. I had an Air Arms S200 before, much lighter, very accurate and quiet but pump up of course. I kind of regret getting rid of it but the seals kept going and it was starting to cost a bit to maintain. Our kids learnt with some ancient BSA .177 someone gave us and a Crossman CO2 rat gun.

well i reckon i'll be off to a few places over the next couple of weeks to see whats what... thanks for all the input.

In stw tradition, I recommend what I own, I picked up a lovely BSA Scorpion cheap from Gunstar.

My lad and grandsons much prefer it to the break barrel Gamo Socom 1000

The Gamo is for sale if anyone's interested. It's a nice rifle far better than the equivalent BSA we had previously.

And nobody has mentioned a Sidelever.
Only because I have a Hammerli 401, along with an Air arms S410 and a CZ 452 Rimmy.
Sig Hammerli up for sale but its probably not what your after.

Parker Hale Dragon, the ultimate* sidey. Webley Tracker had one of those too. Or under lever pneumatic Sharp Innova, builds biceps too pumping away 11 times for a full charge iirc.

*When not failing

Theoben for me. Had fwb and weirauch, fwb (47) was relatively poorly made with and awful trigger, weirach was the best engineered but heavy (35 & 77).

I always like airgun threads. I know the difference between an underlever and break barrel, but can anyone briefly explain the differences between the various Weihrauch models, or how the range runs?

Basically the number refers to the ballpark date they start the design of the rifle. The HW77 was introduced early 80s and work started in 77. The 55 1950s etc. The 77 and 97 are the underlevers, the 100 the PCP all other break barrels of various sizes. K standards for carbine S for sports adjustable trigger, T thumbhole stock. The 77 is the defining underlever rifle. And the 35 pretty much the father of all break barrels. It has a breech lock to stop this ever so common floppy barrel syndrome..

Cheers. Could never work out how the numbers worked!

If you want rifle porn give Venom arms hw80 or 77 a Google. Exhibition grade walnut, Lazaglide rebuilt and customised engraving. *drool
[img] [/img]

It has a breech lock to stop this ever so common floppy barrel syndrome..

So do Westlake 😉

On another note, Gamo Compacts are bloody sore if you close the barrel on your finger.

If anyone has any more questions about air rifles, or indeed anything, post them on here and WYSIWIG will spend a couple of hours googling and then post the results in an attempt to sound like he knows what he's talking about!

It's all a bit David Brent! 😆

Somebody mentioned a sharps innova. My ultimate/dream rifle as a boy.
Which I finally got to own at 15.

Once you bought the 'tuning' manual from TR Rob ... Which basically just showed you how to turn the relief valve up; which upped the power to about 20ft/lb. You then had a small gun that had more punch than the fancy HW35E, and even the new HW80's.
Unfortunately, it mushroomed, and basically cracked the plastic housing of the rifle within about a tin of marksman pellets.

Ps.
Anybody want to buy a mk1 sharps innova ... In need of restoration?

What cheap air rifle for shooting the fat b*stard pigeons that are in my garden?

weakly> or alternatively I owned my first air rifle before my first proper bicycle, a HW30 when I was 7 which had to have the stock replaced as it was too big. In the 30 years following i've shot more different air rifles than I care to remember from BSA Meteor mkII's to 30ftlb Rapids.

It's just quite possible that someone actually knows what theyre talking about, after all someone has to write whats on google...

I got given a Webley Eclipse a few years ago, it's a slightly unusual underlever .22 with a lever opening breech.

Like this:

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

I've got a cheap Hawke scope and a sling on it now, it's a bloody good gun, shoots dead straight, but I actually prefer it on iron sights I think, they're very accurate on this gun, and good enough for its useful range I think. Mostly used for shooting rabbits and squirrels in the garden.

A couple of my mates are big into their air rifles, springers and pcp's - I go shooting with them sometimes, but the limited range of sub 12 ft/lb guns doesn't sit well with my patience levels, I just find it limiting, fine for back yard vermin and targets, and pest control in buildings, but sod all use otherwise if you ask me. I have heard tales of a few other people with unticketed air rifles over 12 ft/lb, now they're more usable, but totally illegal.

One mate has one of these: http://www.air-arms.co.uk/video/948620-air-arms-s400f-superlite-review Lovely thing, more useful with the Rowan Engineering multishot adapter he has now (even if you have to cycle it manually), but it's not FAC, got to have the bottle, get that refilled, service it etc etc, it's not cheap.

I live on a farm and can get probably 1000 acres of permission if I ask nicely, so I'm going to put in for my FAC and get a .22 rimfire, for under £200 you can get a nice used Anschutz with a scope, CZ even cheaper. That's less money than an average springer, and far more useful for me.

But wheres the fun in sitting 100yds away knocking over rabbit after rabbit?
Its all about the stalk upto the shot more than the shot IMHO. I'd much rather spend 30 mins belly crawling through wet grass and have a rabbit leg it at the last minute than accumulate a pile of rabbits from the next postcode. Now if its purely for vermin control fair enough. But ive said it before and no one ever does as it results in a tirade of abuse, its enjoyable. As long as its for a purpose or if edible gets eaten I enjoy it.

I like the stalk, don't get me wrong, it's a craft, it's about knowing your quarry and the environment you're in.

But, we have lots of arable crops that the rabbits will hammer, there's a lot about at the moment, and are overrun with grey squirrels, so if you want to control in numbers, the rimfire is the way.

I make no bones about enjoying shooting, I don't ever shoot huge bags of anything, and normally eat at least some of what I shoot, or give it to others, but it is fun, it requires skill, and an understanding of each species, the countryside in general and is just a great way to spend time.

Night vision is ace for bagging rabbits. Around Christmas I managed 160 from 3 visits to the same farm.
Also if you are struggling with accuracy then try decent pellets. Those Marksman and Spitfire brands are total rubbish. Try to get an assortment and have a play to see what suits your gun. Mine loves the CZ 4.52 Diablo's
And don't put one of them crappy spring loaded Bipods on your barrel as it upsets the harmonics. The barrel should not be touching anything. I had a shot at a Pigeon with the barrel resting against the door frame, because there's no recoil on a PCP you can see the pellet trajectory. Missed by a mile to one side on what is highly accurate rifle.

Well fingers crossed I'm off to look at a hatsan pcp on Monday... Yes it's not what I was originally looking at but having had a play with a couple today the hw97 is going to be too much for mrsvader let alone minivader...

A cautionary tale - i had a Hatsan AT44 which was incredibly pellet fussy, so much so that i was getting two or three inches of variation at 20 yards between different brands! It was sent back to the importers who tested it and said it was fine with their preferred pellets (H&N Field Target) so thats what I started using and indeed it was okay. They are expensive pellets though.
The auto safety bugged me as well.
Eventually I sold it on, the buyer only kept it a few days before moving it on as well. The third owner said it was dreadful and threatened all sorts of legal action.
Anyhow, I've heard of many people who are happy with AT44's - sadly I wasn't one of them.

[i]Minivader will learn to shoot on a stand, as i did at his age (8) , and when he is competent enough he will get his own junior rifle [/i]

No, just get him a decent cadet rifle of his own - bought my son a Gamo when he was about 10y/o. This kinda thing:

http://www.sportsmanguncentre.co.uk/gamo-junior-hunter-beech-177

It's not used now as he's 17 so uses either of mine.

duplicate

put in for my FAC and get a .22 rimfire,

Don't bother, if you're getting a FAC, get yourself a machine gun and shoot rabbits properly (Michael Caine even uses his to shoot tigers) 😯

The thing is br, I don't want to spend out on him and then he doesn't want to know after ten minutes (has happened before) . If he gets right into it then I will get him his own junior gun...

Well I went and did it... Virtually brand new hatsan at 44 with bottle and adapter, optic, bipod, silencer, target, bag, and hunting bag... Looking forward to shooting it properly (quick test fire in the persons garden and everything checked out)
[img][url= https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1584/25992964474_b3032593d4_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1584/25992964474_b3032593d4_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/FAUJKU ]DSC_0174[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/75575925@N08/ ]daftvader77[/url], on Flickr[/img]

I like the Hatsan, my friends got one, one of the few rifles with a proper trigger mechanism that you can't double load and wreck your barrel!

I liked the way it felt... Mrsvader can hold it, and minivader can get his shoulder on the butt and reach the trigger (he's inherited my gorilla arms) so win all round. Plus the back garden is 15m away from the road with a ten meter length to set up a small range.. Win all round really! 🙂

I had a few HW80s in the 1980s and 1990s. You could buy a kit and a booklet back then called 'Power Without Powder' by a guy called Mike Wade which took the rifle to well over the legal 12ftlbs . There was a phase when 2.5 was having a bit of a resurgence as a calibre (don't know if its still about). There was also another gunsmith about called Steve Harper who made barrels for the HW80 which had extra rifling - the 'Harper Super Spin' (he also made a thing called the Harper Fox - like the link which I also had and now also illegal). I bought a 2.5 ss carbine barrel for one of my 80s. That and the Mike Wade kit created a monster. I remember taking it to the local gun shop in Northampton who had a gadget for checking ftlbs who had it at 23 ftlbs and who said they shouldn't give it back to me, but did, and asked me not to come back!

http://airgunner.org/?p=71

I have a 1984 (it's as old as me) Weihrauch HW77 in .177, I bought it from airgunbbs classifieds for £130 about 12 years ago and had it lazaglide tuned and reblued by Steve Pope at webley venom. Amazing gun, more consistent shot to shot over the chrono than any pcp I ever owned and it still shows up my mates when I shoot better with a 32 year old springer than they do with a brand new fancy pants gun. So yea I'd recommend them as long as they have been tuned well.

mini update... have put ten pellets through it today and at 10 meters put a 20p group in, which i'm quite proud of... then minivader had a go. now he has never shot before at all, and he goes and does this....
[img][url= https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1608/26344686250_1ea448d7ca_k.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1608/26344686250_1ea448d7ca_k.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/G8Zpos ]DSC_0185[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/75575925@N08/ ]daftvader77[/url], on Flickr[/img]
7 shots in the blue... proud dad moment! 😀

Very good.