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Any armchair lawyers here know the rules on using private shared gardens during the lockdown? I live in a flat in a large square with shared gardens in the centre. The gardens are private with only residents having keys to enter. Someone had put up posters on the gates saying that we are only allowed an hour in the garden. These were taken down by the residents association managing the gardens who replaced them with posters reminding us to keep our distance sand and asking us not to use the benches or the childrens' play areas. This afternoon the police were invited in to the gardens and were telling people that they were only allowed in them to exercise for an hour. They said they were responding to a complaint. I can't really see much of an issue with using the gardens - everyone has been keeping their distance and there was plenty of space to do this even today. I will happily stop using them if that is the law, but will carry on using them if it isn't.
Our small block of 6 flats has a fairly small shared garden round the back (I'm at the front upstairs so don't overlook it). There's just about enough space to spread out nicely and we're managing to share it just fine, but if more than 3 flats wanted to use it at once it might be an issue. Luckily we all get on mostly. It also helps that the resident in the flat downstairs at the back is away for the "duration" as this is her second home, and therefore we're not right outside anybody's window.
I even thought about camping out in it last night, there's a corner that nobody else really uses, but it felt a bit weird so I didn't.
None of this helps you specifically, but I have seen nothing in law that says Covid restrictions are different for shared gardens, but maybe they count as a public space like a park in the police's view?
Did ask the police to explain their decision?
I think the “be sensible “ rule applies here. If you aren’t blocking use for other residents I don’t see the issue. There may be someone vulnerable who feels unable to use it because it’s too busy.
I think the police are wrong. It’s a private garden.
Did ask the police to explain their decision?
I didn't, but someone else did. We left because I had my young boys with me who were worried that we might be in trouble with the police.
There may be someone vulnerable who feels unable to use it because it’s too busy.
I think that's probably the cause of the complaint, and I do have sympathy for the complainant if so - although sympathy levels diminished for anyone who has called the police rather than discussing with the residents' association.
Everyone’s a bit on edge. I can’t imagine what it must be like somewhere with no outside space.
Maybe try and get an agreement with the RA/other residents for a time window for the vulnerable? And someone to sanitise gates/door handles etc?
Good idea dantsw13. I've suggested it on the residents' WhatsApp group.
I’m assuming the English rules are drafted the same as the Scottish ones.
1. The restriction is to stay in the place where you live, but explicitly includes the garden within that, and is worded such that the garden need not actually be contiguous with the dwelling itself.
2. However, the section prohibiting gatherings says:
6. During the emergency period, no person may participate in a gathering in a public place of more than two people except—
(a)where all the persons in the gathering are members of the same household,
(b)[various irrelevant stuff to your situation]
If it were actually a small public park it would be clear - definitely illegal even if it was all just the immediate neighbours using it.
Whilst your space Is probably not technically a public place, and as such it doesn’t apply, if you think about what the rules are trying to achieve and how they have been framed the intent is that you don’t mix with other households. Where this is unavoidable (eg. Buying food - then 2m rule, but ideally just don’t mix). it’s clearly avoidable for you to use this area, or at least to use it at the same time. To clarify the semantics of the law you would probably need to be prepared to go to court (which also means being prepared to go to appeal if the magistrates don’t but your it’s not public argument - even then it might fail, it may not be open to the public but it is open to people outside your household), because I doubt the officer has been specifically trained in this situation. (If you do want to argue the toss 1. Bear in mind that you should read the relevant law for your part of the uk; 2. Most PCs are trying to be pragmatic whilst in difficult circumstances, and a tiny minority of the public are ****s who try to win arguments and wind up cops for fun - you don’t want to be seen as that guy - because you might find yourself getting free legal advice in the cells!)
Is one of your neighbours called Derek?
Tbh sounds for all intents and purposes a public area. No different to the park due to encouraging the grouping of different house holds in a small space.
Why do people keep saying only 1 hour of exercise, even the police in your case
According to the UK Gov website their is no time limit on exercise
What it does say is you should only exercise once a day alone or with members of your household
Minimise the time you are away from the home
Keep 2 meters apart
In your case as long as your two meters apart from anyone else who is exercising in the shared garden and your not standing around chatting and are getting some exercise then you are not breaking any rules
I got called irresponsible yesterday for going out on 2 hour bike ride out in the countryside, i saw 5 people in total who were always more than 10 meters away
The person who called me irresponsible said i broke the 1 hour rule (which does not exist)
That same person went for a 1 hour walk on a busy seafront and complained that there were too many people and they struggled to keep two meters apart!!!
Its about being sensible and not putting yourself and others at risk, keep your distance and keep away from areas you know could get busy
although sympathy levels diminished for anyone who has called the police rather than discussing with the residents’ association.
It might be that they don’t feel comfortable discussing it with the RA for some reason. Possibly even intimidated by it. Rather than not wanting to.
I feel quite lucky really, we have a small private garden with views, but also live within a larger private area where we’ve formed a temporary residents group which everyone without exception has joined. Even the vulnerable resident who doesn’t even know what WhatsApp is has an open communication channel albeit indirect.
How many flats worth of couples/singles/families have got legitimate access to the space? How many families could realistically use it at one time? Not just now with out social distancing rules but normally with good manners and not invading each other’s personal space. Does the maths work or could conceivably a few self folk effectively block it by their perm term presence for everybody else? Finally, if I walked in without knowing anything would I think I’d walked into a garden or small park?
I think the police are wrong. It’s a private garden.
Unless it looks to all intent and purpose like multiple household socializing together. Plenty of cases of plod visiting back gardens to break up similar.
Thanks all - especially poly for the legal view. I wasn't planning on arguing with the police - I wanted to know the law so that I can follow it - and since it's ambiguous I'll treat the garden as a public space.
Sounds like you might have to set up a rotar