[Closed] Sexism on STW (a goodbye and some thanks 🙂 )

People leave forums all the time.

Indeed. I remember when TJ did his 'flounce', trouble is, he just couldn't ****ing stay away could he ?? Why the **** did he come back ??

And another thing, a certain 'Lahndan' based poster on here gets a ban or a 'lifetime ban' off the mods, a while later he's back under a different posting name. How's that work then ?

People leave forums all the time.

Yes they do. But the self-examination is not about people leaving. It's about the reasons they felt they were not welcome.

How's that work then ?

He mended his ways.

He mended his ways.

[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/appeal-for-voting-support-please-help-ray-edens-lad#post-3123394 ]Really?[/url]

Always took it to mean a bit of "tradesmen's" akshun. As ever the outraged minority find something to be outraged over.

I've always taken it as meaning non-consensual sex, or at the very least, some degree of resistance.

Otherwise it would be something along the lines of "using the back door/trademen's entrance". Why would anyone talk about 'kicking doors in', if they are being 'welcomed' ?

12 pages!!

It will be interesting to see which of the bastions of good moral behaviour are the first to go back to flash grenades back doors etc.

Hopefully they will all be just as mindful about avoiding taking the rise out of overweight people, roadies etc etc etc...

For the record I am not encouraging or condoning sexist comments of the type that have driven the op to leave, it's the hypocrisy of a hell of a lot of people on here that grates.

Apart from TJ who has always argued against the A&A threads I bet a lot of these sudden morally perfect posters have commented and posted on them... massive hypocrisy and jumping on the bandwagon.

Fair play to you for always remaining as a constant TJ *dofs cap*

Far too many people sitting around a group theropy session huggathon if you ask me..
Far too much naval gazing too.
Far too introspective.
Far too me, me, me.

Forum members make thier own decisions to log on/off or post/not post, theres nothing more simple in that fact. They make informed choices on thier own.

But really.. This place.. You so have to have a "give and take" attitude.

No reason to slam the door on your way out though yeah?

I've only spot-read this as I haven't got the time to read it all but still want to add my tuppence.

I am a female (if you didn't guess from my username) part-time lurker, some-time poster. I lurk most mornings with my brekkie and lunchtime at work. I post rarely, rarely because I have not got so many profound and interesting things to say as others here and because I've got a life and don't want to spent all my waking hours on a computer.
I am NOT posting rarely, because I am intimidated in any way. I grew up in a boy's world (older brother had to look after me a lot and took me out with his mates) and I do like football, F1 (yes I do admit to that), motorbikes and obviously getting dirty (riding my push bike).
I was never offended by any of the posts I read, as I mainly take it as harmless banter. Judging a woman by her looks ? Yes, it happens and it's a bit shallow, but I have heard far worse on girls nights out. Us girls - judging a bloke by it's looks ?? Oh yes. Have you guys never heard us going on about Jonny Depp and the like ?? Do I have to pretend I like him because of his brains ???
BUT - and this is a firm and big BUT - 'Kicking in the back door' - I didn't know the expression til I came to this thread - is outrageous and wrong on so many levels.
You CANNOT give rape a pet name, rape is always rape and has to be called that. You cannot use this in any way to describe it, you're making the act less severe and mock it. If your partner was raped, would you use this expression to describe the crime ?
Also - 'must be the time of the month' - don't say it guys, it's boring, mostly not true, shows your shallowness and yes, sexist. So don't make an arse of yourself.

Apart from that - I'm fine with most stuff here, have to say though didn't see the thread in question but a shame Sue feels she has to say good-bye.

Not dismissing the presence of sexism etc, however there is also a lot of people forgetting that words only have the power we ascribe to them. This repeated reference to back doors for example here is first place I have ever heard it refered to as rape, fortunately I read this and have returned to work after my night shift to inform one of our HCA's that the act she was discussing recently has been declared such by STW and she should in no way be discussing it and even saying she enjoyed it with her partner. Amazingly different people let different words hold power others don't!
This is all the rambling of a post night shift brain so may not be as lucid a point as I wish to make but as per guidance above I would have no issue saying it to my mum so think its okay to put online.

Hm. Is it naive that I had thought the back door thing was about kicking ass?

Also, as long as we're so introspective about the forum's sexism, can we take a little time to consider our ludicrous, and frankly offensive to me, socialism?

Kicking in the back door

Just to check we are not in a 'Daily Mail Outrage' type situation, where has this phrase been used recently, other than being typed out endlessly by those protesting about it?

oh another ego thread, ace!

Bored now. Every so often we get a 'look at me I'm going to leave a forum' topic posted up don't we?
The last funny one was FrenchJuan who posted like he drank Jack Daniels using freetranslate

Racist...

"The last funny one was FrenchJuan who posted like he drank Jack Daniels using freetranslate"

I'm only guessing here hora, but I think that would probably be down to the fact that English isnt his first language. Tell you what, you start a post in french, and we'll see how funny or otherwise that is, hows that?

Just to check we are not in a 'Daily Mail Outrage' type situation, where has this phrase been used recently, other than being typed out endlessly by those protesting about it?

It's used on this forum. Are you pretending that it isn't ?

Jesus 😐

It's used on this forum. Are you pretending that it isn't ?

No. I asked for examples where it has been used recently as I couldn't remember any specific incidents. But, don't let that get in the way of getting outraged.

This time last year, Andy Gray and Richard Keys were getting their jotters from a national broadcaster for indulging in dated locker-room "banter" when they thought no one was listening, despite being sat in front of a bank of cameras and recording equipment. It provoked a debate along the lines of this thread on a national scale.

I'm with TJ and the handwringing do-gooders on this one. I'm no prude but "banter" which implies, jokes about or normalises violent, unconsensual sex is bad form. So "kicking back doors in", "would you smash it", "that winger's raped the full-back all day long" - I would think less of anyone, mates included, who use this terminology.

Unless you're in among likeminded souls in some porn dungeon chatroom that caters for that sort of thing, or amongst mates and out of earshot of anyone you think might be offended. But this is an open forum, read by thousands of people you don't know, so expect to be called out by someone if anything you're saying is something you wouldn't air in polite company.

If a sweaty-palmed, hairy-knuckled dwarf like Richard Keys is the poster-boy for your conduct towards others, then you're welcome to it. The irony is that, as with most perpetrators of this type of patter, in real life, you can't imagine them whispering "hello" under the garden gate, far less getting near anyone's back door.

Really?

Really. You should have seen him before 😀

Why would anyone talk about 'kicking doors in', if they are being 'welcomed' ?

I think it was usually "bashing" rather than "kicking", which has a slightly less violent implication. And I never considered it to be "unwelcomed", simply passionate.

I basically always read it as [i]"I'd very much like to vigorously engage in rude sexual acts with that attractive young lady"[/i] - not exactly charming, but nothing to do with rape.

However, as I said, other people clearly read it very differently to me, so I will refrain from upsetting them and will attempt to educate others likewise.

If this is about that back door phrase it certainly doesn't mean what some people take it to mean. It's in the same vein as "roughing up the suspect" and so on, just a bit of a lewd term for a common but not rapey sexual act. The line between banter and offence is often fairly blurred and almost always influenced by the relationship between the people involved. Our office manager (a woman) is frankly outrageous and has been since day one so it's not like she's trying to fit in with a lads culture, it's just how she is. Other women I've worked with take a dim view of any sexual banter.

Bit of common sense is all that's needed. An internet forum accepts all sorts and I can't see the point in getting upset about it, this isn't mumsnet (although if you read some of the stuff over there it makes this place look tame)

smashing

just a bit of a lewd term for a common but not rapey sexual act.

No.

I've always read it as being a reference to rape. I'm amazed anyone could think otherwise.

Ignoring it though has clearly been the wrong thing to do. I'm as guilty as anyone on that point.

Jesus

No. I asked for examples where it has been used recently as I couldn't remember any specific incidents.

Most have been modded recently. But a trip to the Search box with the phrase "back doors" will still provide you plenty of examples if you are so inclined.

If we're collecting a list of words and phrases which cause offence and should be avoided, can I add "Jock" and "Sweaty/Sweaty Sock"? I find them as offensive as ****, Chink, and ****.

I asked for examples where it has been used recently .....

Why......how is that relevant ?

If you accept that it is used, as apparently you now do, then specific examples are hardly relevant.

The only thing I find "outrageous" is the level of denial expressed by some.

oldnpastit - You're wrong then, it's that simple. It doesn't mean that and never has.

I've always read it as being a reference to rape. I'm amazed anyone could think otherwise.

I've never read it as a reference to rape, I'm amazed that anyone could think otherwise.

Agree there jools as said above here is first place I've heard it used or adapted to suit some bodies argument as a forceful non consensual act.

[i]a lust of words[/i]

there's not much on this thread that's made me smile but that did, but I'm not sure why.

We need a PC alternative, how about 'I'd blow the froth off her cappuccino' or '**** me chavva I'd lick the spit off her Iphone rubberised protective cover'?

I've never read it as a reference to rape, I'm amazed that anyone could think otherwise.

Same here. I wondered if it was just me, so I googled the phrase in order to try and get an unbiased opinion. First hit was [url= http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=kick%20the%20back%20door%20in ]urban dictionary[/url] (unsurprisingly, though I was half expecting it to be STW). Seems that the consensus would agree.

Ergo, as I said a couple of pages back, whilst it's a crass and intentionally ridiculous phrase, it does [i]not[/i] imply rape.

Glad we cleared that up.

I've never read it as a reference to rape, I'm amazed that anyone could think otherwise.

+1..

has it got anything to do with the relatively modern linguistic phenomenon of people 'absolutely smashing' things when they achieve and triumph..?

'I smashed that deadline..'

'was it a good performance..?' 'yes we absolutely smashed it.. the place blew up..'

'do you think that she's attractive..?' 'yes.. If she would consent then I'd joyfully attempt to smash the granny out of it given the opportunity..'

'did you do well in the race..?' 'yes I smashed it'

We need a PC alternative

"I'd like to get to know her as a real person"

Why do we need a euphemism anyway? Why not just type 'I would like fully consensual anal sex with that fine lady'.

Jobs a goodun.

KINGTUT - Member
I've never read it as a reference to rape, I'm amazed that anyone could think otherwise.

+1

It's not a term that I've ever posted since it's unnecessarily crude IMO but I certainly never read it as unconsensual and I've never actally heard it used in that context in the real world either which I guess just goes to show how easy it is for words alone to have potentially very different meanings to different people

Its clear that to many of us on here it does mean rape.

its not what you intend that matters - its how its perceived by others.

However arguing over the exact meaning of a distasteful phrase is not addressing the key point which is that what to some is acceptable banter is to others demeaning and unpleasant.

Its STWs playground - they make the rules and are the final arbitrators - and judging by the bans and deletions recently their stance is clear.

# No posts which, in the Moderators opinion, are likely to cause offence to either an individual, or group, whatever their gender, sexual inclination or ethnicity.
# No posts, including links to other sites that are deemed to be of a sexual or distasteful nature, incite racial or sexist behaviour or are in any way discriminatory and/or offensive towards individuals or minority groups.

I personally would take a harder line stance than the mods do but I have to accept that their interpretation is what counts - so do all of you to whom its just a bit of banter

Must say I've never seen the rape connection with that phrase, though it's not one I like/use.

Also, as long as we're so introspective about the forum's sexism, can we take a little time to consider our ludicrous, and frankly offensive to me, socialism?

Oh dear.

And druidh, stop trolling.

Wow you folks really feel the need to waffle on about crap huh. 🙂

Unfortunately this forum, as with most others, has it's share of knobs. The solution is not to leave but to stand your ground, this is YOUR forum, not theirs.

I've always taken it as meaning non-consensual sex, or at the very least, some degree of resistance.

Otherwise it would be something along the lines of "using the back door/trademen's entrance". Why would anyone talk about 'kicking doors in', if they are being 'welcomed' ?

my wife told me an anecdote about her experience at the take that concert at villa park.

in the crowd there was a woman holding up a banner reading:

'Robbie - Kick my back doors in'

When the said drug addled popster saw the banner he got the camera to zoom in on it so that it was projected onto the screen whereby it got an enmormous cheer from the overwhelmingly female crowd.

Now I know that I'm not the brightest pixie in the forest but I reckon that even I can dedeuce from this that the expression was used in a way that suggested that rather than merely being welcomed and consensual, the activity was positively encouraged and then subsequently endorsed by 40,000 women.

obviously just having a laugh, they hadn't considered how much they might have offended themselves.

Someone asked where the phrase in question (m'lud) had been used on STW - here's one

[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/friday-competition-the-least-self-aware-person-on-the-planet ]

hora :: post # 41
... Don't get me wrong. I'd smash her back doors of their hinges however I'd be mentally flicking through my ex-back catalogue though to keep the battering ram hard.. ..]

grum, I'm offended by the fact you accused me of trolling and since it's up to me what I find offensive I'm going to report your post.

there's not much on this thread that's made me smile

The "judgypants" comment made me laugh. I think I might be a bit too judgypants sometimes.

On the contentious subject of backdoors - I've never used the phrase myself but also never read it as a reference to anal rape. I also don't believe it has been meant as one, otherwise I'd have flounced myself.

Good point TJ but...

# No posts which, in the Moderators opinion, are likely to cause offence to either an individual, or group, whatever their gender, sexual inclination or ethnicity.

"little englander" can be taken many different ways - I've regularly (in the real world) heard it used to refer to racist behaviour rather than the correct 'dictionary' definition so you'll now stop using it, right, knowing that it's perceived by others in that way...?

I'm sure you think you're making a clever point here druidh, but you're really not. Give over.

not sure re rape but I do know i have never heard it anywhere but here. I have never used it and never will.Its an awful phrase.
I can describe a woman I find as attractive in a way that would be fine to say in front of my mother or my children....why we use that phrase is lost on me.
Some things you can say privately if that is what you are like some you can say publicly - difference between telling your mates something and standing at the bar telling the entire pub.
I doubt you would get a great reception using that phrase to the entire bar and I very much doubt the target of this phrase would be flattered.

EDIT: I reported that Hora post FWIW and they let it stand.