MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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Was arguing with a bloke in the pub (productive, not)...
He reckoned that with enough training anyone could run a four minute mile. I disagreed. I feel like I was right?
Could anyone do it if they worked hard enough? And would there be an age limit on this (surely yes)?
They couldn't, you were right.
My brother represents Scotland at Cross County (running). He says no.
Was it Gareth Keenan?
<armchair sports scientist>
A four-minute mile is an aerobic effort. VO2 max would be the limiting factor.
As I understand it, VO2 max is genetically set. It can be increased with training, but only up to a point.
Even with hard training, most people would not acquire the VO2 max required to run a four-minute mile.
</armchair sports scientist>
I doubt it. I'm fairly fit although not a regular runner. I tried running at 4 min mile pace once, I could only do it sprinting as fast as I could downhill! No way could I do it on the flat, let alone keep it up for 4 minutes!
😆 anyone? I presume Svetlana Masterkova and Genzebe Dibaba haven't had the right training
Aracer has it.
Don't argue with idiots etc.....
Aracer has it.
Yeah, and then I spoiled it by elaborating 😳
think most people would struggle to hit the required 15mph over 100m sprint let alone over a mile. 😆
Eh it only takes 10 seconds to run 100m
So 1500 m about 2.5 minutes .....easy
Leaves a full 1.49 minutes to have a sit down before crossing the line.
Saunters off
Eh it only takes 10 seconds to run 100m
like to see you do it 🙂 the qualifying time for the london olympics was 10.18
From the couch. Not unless your only 13 now. And can keep up the training for the next 10 years...... and have good genes.
Guy I worked with went from a 3 miles each way commute and a bit of Saturday afternoon football to a short 21 minute 10 in 3 years following a similar (drunken) discussion. He claimed that a 20 minute 10 was fairly easy with enough training. (This is when the comp record was about 19 minutes IIRC, late 80s maybe)
Certainly put his money where his mouth was. Still knocks out 22s now in his 50s.
like to see you do it the qualifying time for the london olympics was 10.18
ah piece of piss mate they just never asked me
but i kid you not im going to start this argument down the pub myself tonight just for the sheer joy of using my calculations lol
like to see you do it the qualifying time for the london olympics was 10.18
ah piece of piss mate they just never asked me
but i kid you not im going to start this argument down the pub myself tonight just for the sheer joy of using my calculations lol
that's the danger of idiocy - it's almost boundless when you start exploring it
Even a 5 minute.mile is flipping quick. 4 minute miles are elitist
Lol just googled the fastest mile
Men 3:43
Women 4:13
I imagine the men who have got under 4 minutes have sat on a couch at some point in their lives but I doubt it was the start point of their training....
4:30 quite possibly, think 4:00 would be too far for most though.
I think the solution is obvious, challenge the bloke in the pub to prove it. Tell him you'll give him a grand when he does it.
He won't.
He clearly wanted a punch up but you misinterpreted the conversation.
30 years years ago I could do it, but from what I can remember we never started from a sofa. We just lined up behind a white line on the grass.
+ genetics - no matter how much training you may never be able to it.
When I was fit and young enough to play regular rugby I once got under 5.20. being built like a hooker didn't help.
You've run a 4 minute mile ?andy8442 - Member
30 years years ago I could do it, but from what I can remember we never started from a sofa. We just lined up behind a white line on the grass
... and it was on grass ?
😯
I was a good club runner. Never got below 5 mins for a mile.I trained at least 4 times a week.... Its properly sprinting the whole way. I am stuck in the 6s now as 38 and just getting slower....
so with enough training anyone can run a 4 minute mile, but yet no woman in the history of the world has ever come close to achieving it. Most people couldn't run 400m in under 1 minute with training let alone do it 4 times back to back
When I was fit and young enough to play regular rugby I once got under 5.20. being built like a hooker didn't help.
quite impressive in heels
Need a VO2max of at least 75ml/kg/min to run a 4min mile. The average person only goes up to 50mg/kg/min with training, would require lots of drugs to make up the difference.
... and it was on grass
After he'd done a line too!
I'm doing couch to 5k.
My goal is to do it under 30 minutes once I'm running all the way.
What is everyone's 5k time ?
Zippy,
Once you get running all the way, you should crack 30 minutes. I have done a high 22, but I'm more like 24 at the minute. I've blown all my speed (such as it was!) doing long distance training.
Find a parkrun, great events and there are generally people around most paces to run with.
Matt
I got down to 4:17 and was training very hard. I wouldnt say no stone unturned but other than a couple of seconds improvement with even more commitment I dont think I could get much faster, I ran 53 ish for 400 and (what I thought was good) 1:26 for 600. I only ran 2:01 for 800 which was disapointing.
More telling is a mate of mine who ran 28:15 for 10,000 on the track, 46:25 for 10 miles (!!!) and 62:45 for a HM. He only ran 4:06 for the mile. Its still a very difficult time to run even so many years later.
15:48 BTW Zippy
So in short I think you are right.
Had a quick look and the Iffley festival of miles was won with 4:37, by a guy who's ranked in the top 1% of the UK (UK registered athletes, not general population). He runs more than 100km a week every week and wins a lot of local races, so I'm guessing you're right and your mate's wrong.
Zippy - lots slower than surfer, 18:13.
I'm doing couch to 5k.
My goal is to do it under 30 minutes once I'm running all the way.
What is everyone's 5k time ?
I did couch to 5K back in 2014 - was at about 33 minutes for 5K by the end of it I think, and had got down to sub 30 minutes within another couple of months. Took 2015 off from running and piled on some beef before starting running again earlier this year and am now down to 25:57 for 5K and 56:45 for 10K.
The fastest I've run a mile so far was 7:18 and there is not the slightest chance I'd get anywhere near 4 minutes no matter what level of training I did.
By the time I was finished the 9 weeks, the run time was covering between 5 and 6k depending on route used. Sub 30 minute 5k should be easily achievable if you're a fit cyclist all ready.
Same as Stevemuzzy, I was a pretty good mid distance runner, and could (with huge amounts of hard work) get to close to five and half mins per mile, it's bloody hard.
Zippy I dont mean to sound too elitist but I would be suprised if most people could not get under 30 mins for 5k. Under 20 is getting harder but under 30 with a bit of training and preperation is relatively easy (unless there are other limiting factors of course)
I would even go as far as saying if you train quite gently then 30 mins is achievable.
I'd agree on the 5k target, 25 mins is a more than achievable time with a bit of training, and sub 30 should be more than ok.
After 8 pints anything is possible FACT 😆
My best 5k so far including the 5 minute walk each end is 31.50.
Once I'm regularly doing running 5k non stop will I need to do the warm up and down walk?
I'm running to work and once I get there I'm on my feet all day.
Nope. As above many talented athletes (ie Olympic level) couldn't run a 4 minute mile. You need the genetic talent. It's basically 60 seconds for 400m which even at my fittest I could not do for 1 lap and I was pretty fast
I am trying to think back to the target we had in hockey training when I was in my early 20's - I think it was 9 mins for a mile and a half. Had to be fit and motivated to do that.
If I understand correctly Zippy, you're walking 10 mins during your 5km time, then you're definitely running more than quick enough when you're actually running! Maybe slow your pace down and try and run the full distance. You should be able to get under 30 pretty quickly.
And in answer to the OP, certainly not, not in the sense that anyone could do it. Sure, out of a large group sample maybe one or two might, but that person may well have turned out to be an elite runner anyway.
couldn't run a 4 minute mile.
I suspect every athlete that makes a final (or even semi final) from each event from 800m to 10,000m could run a sub 4. Many of the Marathon runners could too given most of them move from shorter distances up. Would need a real modification of their training but many could or have done it in the past.
Zippy you just need a balanced type and amount of training. At lower levels of fitness you can write your training schedule on a postage stamp. The amount of improvement you will make going from no training to regular training is huge. Running (at a manageable, mildly uncomfortable pace) say 3-4 times a week will see benefits quite quickly. Then add a single slightly longer run once per week and then the real training starts of hills and intervals. Dont let them freak you out they just need to paced correctly, they really improve fitness. Add to that a bit of bloody determination to beat the person next to you and a willingness to experience discomfort for what may feel like eternity and Bob's your uncle, you are an athlete.
zippykona - Member
Once I'm regularly doing running 5k non stop will I need to do the warm up and down walk?
I am not a professional running coach: I just run slowly to 'warm up' - but yes, you'll have to do some kind of warm up.
Yes Zippy always warm up but if you are running a 30 min 5k the warm up would be a very slow jog for example, you are just preparing your body for the pain to come! Somebody aiming to launch into 1:50 800m pace from their first step would require a much longer and intensive warm up/prep 😯
Well, the mens marathon world record is 2:02:57, so if you average it over the distance I work it out to be 4:07 per mile...
And those elite runners are pretty fit
About 4:40 per mile not 4:07!
Just did my first non stop 25 minute run.
The couch to 5k is really clever. I struggled to run between lamposts before i started and the jump from 3 minute runs to 5 minutes seemed impossible.
End of week six and I'm doing 25 minutes. Very happy. Using muscles not used for 35 years!
Its your body thats clever 🙂
I've had about 5 months off from running, due to doing some road riding training and Uni exams. I'm just getting back into it and currently doing 22:30 5K (my best for 5k is around 20min.). My 10k PB is 40:14, at a race last year where I came 30th, out of 4500, and 2nd in my age group (over 40). If I remember correctly, the winner did it in 35 minutes, which is roughly 5:40/mile
I'd say the 4 minute mile is out of reach for all but the most talented individuals
I suspect every athlete that makes a final (or even semi final) from each event from 800m to 10,000m could run a sub 4.
You're still talking about the genetic freaks there.
17:30 for 5k, though that was halfway in a 10 (35:30, slowed a bit for the second half), I'm sure I could have gone faster though as once did 16:40 on a treadmill. Best mile was 4:59 and once ran 400 in 60s, though that was pretty much a flat out sprint. Clearly from those times I was better at longer distances.
[i]About 4:40 per mile not 4:07![/i]
Ooops 🙂 My bad (maths)
A mile is that pain in the arse distance that's neither sprint nor endurance.
Back in my schooldays, I was fine at endurance running - 10km in sub 35 minutes was pretty easy for me but I was absolutely shockingly poor at any short/mid distance stuff. 400m and 800m, you could guarantee I'd be dead last, even against the fat kid who'd always get picked last for football. In fact, I was tragically bad at football too.
Closest I ever got to a 4-minute mile was 4.15 but that was on a treadmill so much easier than a running track. I can (or I could back then!) sustain 12 - 12.5mph for 45 minutes but no chance of me holding the 15mph necessary for a mile for more than 30 seconds.
There were 3 or 4 county standard kids at school; everyone else took the piss becasue we actually used to train for the annual school steeplechase. We'd be the ones back in the canteen after 40 minutes with the pick of all the tea and cake while the rest of the school straggled round in anything up to 2hrs wondering why it hurt so much. So I'd be interested to see the Bloke Down The Pub manage it.
Hmm, something doesn't add up there cl, because the fat kid wouldn't be able to maintain your 10km pace for 800m. 35 min 10km pace gives a 2:42 800 which I'd think might well win a school race (I remember winning one in 3:00!)
Though in any case, your stated mile time gives a 2:07 800 and I doubt most people would ever get anywhere near that, whether at school or not.
Want to be depressed aracer? 2:07 would only just get you into the top 100 in the UK at under 15 level! It wouldn't even top the U13 age group this year!
Doesn't depress me at all (it appears that a realistic 3000m time would get me into the top 100 at under 15 😉 ) - if it got you into the top 100 there's a good chance you'd be fastest in your school though.
Sub 30 minute 5k should be easily achievable if you're a fit cyclist all ready
Easy I'd say. I've not run in years and got a 22:40 on an organised park run the other week. Not a completely flat course either. Was very sore the next day mind!
+1Hmm, something doesn't add up there cl
CL. If you ran 4:14 for the mile you would be under 2 minutes for 800 and at junior level that is pretty fast. Nobody but a talented and hardworking school age boy was going to beat that, certainly not a fat one.
I was unusual amongst my training group as the only one who never broke 2 mins (I ran 2:01 with a mile best of 4:17) No fat kid ever beat me.
As I said in my eariler post, it was on a treadmill. Indoor gym, powered treadmill, cushioned surface so no wind resistance or hills.
The post was intended to show that even a good distance runner can't be expected to thrash out 4-minute miles so I fail to see how the Bloke Down The Pub in the OP would have managed.
School used to run rowing competitions too, they had a target (I forget what) which was just about achieveable on the indoor machines but you'd have to be Olympic standard to manage it in a proper boat where things like technique and not-capsizing play a part. Same sort of thing on the running machines.
I watched a documentary on Roger Bannister on BBC4 the other week - the amazing fact in that was that more people have been in space than have run officially timed 4 min miles. So no I don't think you could go from couch to 4 min miling.
It is always eye opening to figure out the speed top marathon runners can maintain and then try to replicate it for any sort of distance! Even sprinting (in my mind) I can't match 4:40 pace for anything more than about 100m!
At the other end of the scale it is amazing what you can achieve if you are bloody obstinate! Did the great south run yesterday in 1:40! A terribly slow time I accept, and one where the pace matched my London marathon pace 6 months ago! The odd thing is I have done 0km of run training since London. The onyl difference is that I would not have wanted to run another m yesterday, but at London I plodded on for another 16 miles!
I'm a relatively competent runner, 400 in ~54, 1500 in ~4:25, 10k 33:08, recent marathon 2:40:09.
Extrapolating my 1500m time I'd be ~4:44, so a country mile away from 4 minutes!
Genetic VO2 max I think does play a big part, my Garmin says mine is about 65, so a long way off decent runners.
There was a treadmill set up at Interbike a few years ago where the pace was set to the Meb's marathon PB (from memory) and there was a competition to see who could last the longest. Runners wore a harness which has suspensions cables from above so that when they collapsed exhausted they wouldn't be spat off the back of the machine. Not many folk lasted very long!
Cheers, Rich
I'll keep it brief, not a chance of sub 4 min mile for the regular person.
I am seriously impressed by some of the times of singletrackworlders though.
I am pedestrian in comparison with 20.12 for 5k and 48 for 10k. I am now old and slow but even when I was young I was hardly fast (especially as my best friend at school went on to race the GNR in 1hr 17m).
When I was fit and young enough to play regular rugby I once got under 5.20. being built like a hooker didn't help.
quite impressive in heels
Post of the day
I was a relatively average club runner at school.
School competitions would always have me near the front, but track meets for my club (TVH) and doing events like the London Youth Games made me realise I was never going to be quicker than the lower-end of the field.
A lot of it was down to motivation & discipline. I ran because I enjoyed it & while I regularly trained it was never that structured & I rarely trained at full pelt. I was never that motivated to be the 'winner'; I just enjoyed running & pushing myself. Getting fit enough to be competitive wasn't that hard, but finding those small improvements to keep the times improving was starting to get difficult.
My best times were 58s for 400, 2:18 for 800 & 5:00 dead for 1500 - a race that I finished last in by probably half a lap. But, I hated 1500m & would shy away from it; worst distance of the lot. I'd much rather do a freezing cold, wet x-country than a 1500m.
4 minute mile for average bloke in the pub with enough training & discipline. No chance.
Not a hope in hell
I'm a relatively competent runner, 400 in ~54, 1500 in ~4:25, 10k 33:08, recent marathon 2:40:09.
Thats interesting as your 400 time is almost the same as mine and I have ran 1500 in 4:02. I ran a mile in 4:17 which means you should be close to my time for 1500 (or around 20 seconds faster than you ran) I have ran 32:20 for 10Km which is a bit faster than yours (53:55 for 10 miles and 72:00 for a HM)
Never ran a serious Marathon which I regret as I was very strong over longer distances. I did run the London in 1996 with some mates with the aim of breaking 3hrs and coming back the next year for a proper go. Ran slowly for the first half then picked it up to be sure of breaking 3. Ran the last 10 miles in well under an hour (dodging slowing runners) to run 2:51. Felt very cofortable all the way around and won a track 3000m 3 days later. Never did get around to running another one through work/family/injury 🙁
One thing I regret, not racing more.
A four minute mile is so fast. At 6th form we all had to be able to run 1.5 miles in under 9.5 minutes (10.5 for girls) or you suffered extra PT until you did. I got fairly quick and managed 8.5 minutes one time. I think the fastest times whilst I was there were in the low 7 minutes but I don't recall anyone getting down to 6 something. And we did a lot of sport.
You've as much chance of running a sub 10s 100m!
This all sounds like the perfect recipe for one of Guy Martins Speed series
"Run a mile in under four minutes ... piece a cake that lad, yeah piece a cake , with a nice brew "
Complete nonsense. Up to him to prove his beer talk isn't it?
There's £100 from me too when he manages it.
I remember having a conversation with friends many years ago, but about a sub-5 minute mile. We concluded you'd need to be super fit, a natural runner, and have trained for quite some time, to be able to do it. Which puts the sub-4 minute mile into some perspective. Once ran a 18'55" for a 5k as a teenager, which I was very proud of, until my mate beat that by almost a minute. 😡 He was a decent middle distance runner, but he never managed a sub-5' mile. Then we got interested in girls, smoking and the 'rave culture', so that was that. 😆
Sub 4' miles are exclusively the preserve of super humans. Anyone who argues otherwise is an idiot.
I bet there are some on here that'd struggle to do a sub 4 minute mile on an MTB.
Me for one. At the moment.
I bet there are some on here that'd struggle to do a sub 4 minute mile on an MTB.
Without any shadow of doubt. 15mph, whilst not mega fast, that is not exactly hanging around when on a bike.
[quote=chiefgrooveguru ]You've as much chance of running a sub 10s 100m!
Surprisingly enough, it seems the 4 minute mile is a lot easier - over 6000 times that's been done, but only 833 sub 10s 100m runs.
[quote=rockfield ]the amazing fact in that was that more people have been in space than have run officially timed 4 min miles.
Only 536 people have been in space, so that appears to be untrue.
I certainly can't *average* 15mph on my local trails!
Only 536 people have been in space, so that appears to be untrue.
Not necessarily....some people might have run them a dozen or more times. 😕
[quote=clodhopper ]I remember having a conversation with friends many years ago, but about a sub-5 minute mile. We concluded you'd need to be super fit, a natural runner, and have trained for quite some time, to be able to do it.
Ah - I was thinking of suggesting that it might be possible for anybody to run a 5 minute mile. Maybe on the basis that I've done it whilst not training just for running (though I did put a bit of effort into training for running a mile for a few weeks - the theory being that the speed would help my longer distances, which it did) and I'm far from being the most naturally talented runner. I'd be kind of surprised if you and your mate couldn't have done it if you had trained specifically for that over a long enough period.
[quote=Rockape63 ]Not necessarily....some people might have run them a dozen or more times.
Steve Scott's apparently done it 136 times, though I'm seeing it suggested that 855 people had run one by 2006. Will analyse the current data later as I can't find any actual current numbers.
Looks like John Walker managed 135 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Walker_(runner) - wonder if that was Steve Scott's motivation?
Anyway back to pub-bore - has he started training yet?
🙂