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Well, the mens marathon world record is 2:02:57, so if you average it over the distance I work it out to be 4:07 per mile...
And those elite runners are pretty fit
About 4:40 per mile not 4:07!
Just did my first non stop 25 minute run.
The couch to 5k is really clever. I struggled to run between lamposts before i started and the jump from 3 minute runs to 5 minutes seemed impossible.
End of week six and I'm doing 25 minutes. Very happy. Using muscles not used for 35 years!
Its your body thats clever 🙂
I've had about 5 months off from running, due to doing some road riding training and Uni exams. I'm just getting back into it and currently doing 22:30 5K (my best for 5k is around 20min.). My 10k PB is 40:14, at a race last year where I came 30th, out of 4500, and 2nd in my age group (over 40). If I remember correctly, the winner did it in 35 minutes, which is roughly 5:40/mile
I'd say the 4 minute mile is out of reach for all but the most talented individuals
I suspect every athlete that makes a final (or even semi final) from each event from 800m to 10,000m could run a sub 4.
You're still talking about the genetic freaks there.
17:30 for 5k, though that was halfway in a 10 (35:30, slowed a bit for the second half), I'm sure I could have gone faster though as once did 16:40 on a treadmill. Best mile was 4:59 and once ran 400 in 60s, though that was pretty much a flat out sprint. Clearly from those times I was better at longer distances.
[i]About 4:40 per mile not 4:07![/i]
Ooops 🙂 My bad (maths)
A mile is that pain in the arse distance that's neither sprint nor endurance.
Back in my schooldays, I was fine at endurance running - 10km in sub 35 minutes was pretty easy for me but I was absolutely shockingly poor at any short/mid distance stuff. 400m and 800m, you could guarantee I'd be dead last, even against the fat kid who'd always get picked last for football. In fact, I was tragically bad at football too.
Closest I ever got to a 4-minute mile was 4.15 but that was on a treadmill so much easier than a running track. I can (or I could back then!) sustain 12 - 12.5mph for 45 minutes but no chance of me holding the 15mph necessary for a mile for more than 30 seconds.
There were 3 or 4 county standard kids at school; everyone else took the piss becasue we actually used to train for the annual school steeplechase. We'd be the ones back in the canteen after 40 minutes with the pick of all the tea and cake while the rest of the school straggled round in anything up to 2hrs wondering why it hurt so much. So I'd be interested to see the Bloke Down The Pub manage it.
Hmm, something doesn't add up there cl, because the fat kid wouldn't be able to maintain your 10km pace for 800m. 35 min 10km pace gives a 2:42 800 which I'd think might well win a school race (I remember winning one in 3:00!)
Though in any case, your stated mile time gives a 2:07 800 and I doubt most people would ever get anywhere near that, whether at school or not.
Want to be depressed aracer? 2:07 would only just get you into the top 100 in the UK at under 15 level! It wouldn't even top the U13 age group this year!
Doesn't depress me at all (it appears that a realistic 3000m time would get me into the top 100 at under 15 😉 ) - if it got you into the top 100 there's a good chance you'd be fastest in your school though.
Sub 30 minute 5k should be easily achievable if you're a fit cyclist all ready
Easy I'd say. I've not run in years and got a 22:40 on an organised park run the other week. Not a completely flat course either. Was very sore the next day mind!
+1Hmm, something doesn't add up there cl
CL. If you ran 4:14 for the mile you would be under 2 minutes for 800 and at junior level that is pretty fast. Nobody but a talented and hardworking school age boy was going to beat that, certainly not a fat one.
I was unusual amongst my training group as the only one who never broke 2 mins (I ran 2:01 with a mile best of 4:17) No fat kid ever beat me.
As I said in my eariler post, it was on a treadmill. Indoor gym, powered treadmill, cushioned surface so no wind resistance or hills.
The post was intended to show that even a good distance runner can't be expected to thrash out 4-minute miles so I fail to see how the Bloke Down The Pub in the OP would have managed.
School used to run rowing competitions too, they had a target (I forget what) which was just about achieveable on the indoor machines but you'd have to be Olympic standard to manage it in a proper boat where things like technique and not-capsizing play a part. Same sort of thing on the running machines.
I watched a documentary on Roger Bannister on BBC4 the other week - the amazing fact in that was that more people have been in space than have run officially timed 4 min miles. So no I don't think you could go from couch to 4 min miling.
It is always eye opening to figure out the speed top marathon runners can maintain and then try to replicate it for any sort of distance! Even sprinting (in my mind) I can't match 4:40 pace for anything more than about 100m!
At the other end of the scale it is amazing what you can achieve if you are bloody obstinate! Did the great south run yesterday in 1:40! A terribly slow time I accept, and one where the pace matched my London marathon pace 6 months ago! The odd thing is I have done 0km of run training since London. The onyl difference is that I would not have wanted to run another m yesterday, but at London I plodded on for another 16 miles!
I'm a relatively competent runner, 400 in ~54, 1500 in ~4:25, 10k 33:08, recent marathon 2:40:09.
Extrapolating my 1500m time I'd be ~4:44, so a country mile away from 4 minutes!
Genetic VO2 max I think does play a big part, my Garmin says mine is about 65, so a long way off decent runners.
There was a treadmill set up at Interbike a few years ago where the pace was set to the Meb's marathon PB (from memory) and there was a competition to see who could last the longest. Runners wore a harness which has suspensions cables from above so that when they collapsed exhausted they wouldn't be spat off the back of the machine. Not many folk lasted very long!
Cheers, Rich
I'll keep it brief, not a chance of sub 4 min mile for the regular person.
I am seriously impressed by some of the times of singletrackworlders though.
I am pedestrian in comparison with 20.12 for 5k and 48 for 10k. I am now old and slow but even when I was young I was hardly fast (especially as my best friend at school went on to race the GNR in 1hr 17m).
When I was fit and young enough to play regular rugby I once got under 5.20. being built like a hooker didn't help.
quite impressive in heels
Post of the day
I was a relatively average club runner at school.
School competitions would always have me near the front, but track meets for my club (TVH) and doing events like the London Youth Games made me realise I was never going to be quicker than the lower-end of the field.
A lot of it was down to motivation & discipline. I ran because I enjoyed it & while I regularly trained it was never that structured & I rarely trained at full pelt. I was never that motivated to be the 'winner'; I just enjoyed running & pushing myself. Getting fit enough to be competitive wasn't that hard, but finding those small improvements to keep the times improving was starting to get difficult.
My best times were 58s for 400, 2:18 for 800 & 5:00 dead for 1500 - a race that I finished last in by probably half a lap. But, I hated 1500m & would shy away from it; worst distance of the lot. I'd much rather do a freezing cold, wet x-country than a 1500m.
4 minute mile for average bloke in the pub with enough training & discipline. No chance.
Not a hope in hell
I'm a relatively competent runner, 400 in ~54, 1500 in ~4:25, 10k 33:08, recent marathon 2:40:09.
Thats interesting as your 400 time is almost the same as mine and I have ran 1500 in 4:02. I ran a mile in 4:17 which means you should be close to my time for 1500 (or around 20 seconds faster than you ran) I have ran 32:20 for 10Km which is a bit faster than yours (53:55 for 10 miles and 72:00 for a HM)
Never ran a serious Marathon which I regret as I was very strong over longer distances. I did run the London in 1996 with some mates with the aim of breaking 3hrs and coming back the next year for a proper go. Ran slowly for the first half then picked it up to be sure of breaking 3. Ran the last 10 miles in well under an hour (dodging slowing runners) to run 2:51. Felt very cofortable all the way around and won a track 3000m 3 days later. Never did get around to running another one through work/family/injury 🙁
One thing I regret, not racing more.
A four minute mile is so fast. At 6th form we all had to be able to run 1.5 miles in under 9.5 minutes (10.5 for girls) or you suffered extra PT until you did. I got fairly quick and managed 8.5 minutes one time. I think the fastest times whilst I was there were in the low 7 minutes but I don't recall anyone getting down to 6 something. And we did a lot of sport.
You've as much chance of running a sub 10s 100m!
This all sounds like the perfect recipe for one of Guy Martins Speed series
"Run a mile in under four minutes ... piece a cake that lad, yeah piece a cake , with a nice brew "
Complete nonsense. Up to him to prove his beer talk isn't it?
There's £100 from me too when he manages it.
I remember having a conversation with friends many years ago, but about a sub-5 minute mile. We concluded you'd need to be super fit, a natural runner, and have trained for quite some time, to be able to do it. Which puts the sub-4 minute mile into some perspective. Once ran a 18'55" for a 5k as a teenager, which I was very proud of, until my mate beat that by almost a minute. 😡 He was a decent middle distance runner, but he never managed a sub-5' mile. Then we got interested in girls, smoking and the 'rave culture', so that was that. 😆
Sub 4' miles are exclusively the preserve of super humans. Anyone who argues otherwise is an idiot.
I bet there are some on here that'd struggle to do a sub 4 minute mile on an MTB.
Me for one. At the moment.
I bet there are some on here that'd struggle to do a sub 4 minute mile on an MTB.
Without any shadow of doubt. 15mph, whilst not mega fast, that is not exactly hanging around when on a bike.
[quote=chiefgrooveguru ]You've as much chance of running a sub 10s 100m!
Surprisingly enough, it seems the 4 minute mile is a lot easier - over 6000 times that's been done, but only 833 sub 10s 100m runs.
[quote=rockfield ]the amazing fact in that was that more people have been in space than have run officially timed 4 min miles.
Only 536 people have been in space, so that appears to be untrue.
I certainly can't *average* 15mph on my local trails!
Only 536 people have been in space, so that appears to be untrue.
Not necessarily....some people might have run them a dozen or more times. 😕
[quote=clodhopper ]I remember having a conversation with friends many years ago, but about a sub-5 minute mile. We concluded you'd need to be super fit, a natural runner, and have trained for quite some time, to be able to do it.
Ah - I was thinking of suggesting that it might be possible for anybody to run a 5 minute mile. Maybe on the basis that I've done it whilst not training just for running (though I did put a bit of effort into training for running a mile for a few weeks - the theory being that the speed would help my longer distances, which it did) and I'm far from being the most naturally talented runner. I'd be kind of surprised if you and your mate couldn't have done it if you had trained specifically for that over a long enough period.
[quote=Rockape63 ]Not necessarily....some people might have run them a dozen or more times.
Steve Scott's apparently done it 136 times, though I'm seeing it suggested that 855 people had run one by 2006. Will analyse the current data later as I can't find any actual current numbers.
Looks like John Walker managed 135 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Walker_(runner) - wonder if that was Steve Scott's motivation?
Anyway back to pub-bore - has he started training yet?
🙂
Can you get data like this from Strava? Does some one want to send them this thread ?
There is a world class fell runner who lives near me, even on his track sessions he doesn't get near 4 min miles.
I'm far from being the most naturally talented runner.
You're better than me at distance.
What if I said anyone could run sub 11.5s 100m? Pretty easy to refute that, since we're not all natural sprinters. We'll similarly we're not all natural distance runners either, and some of us really really aren't.
There is a world class fell runner who lives near me, even on his track sessions he doesn't get near 4 min miles.
Fell running is completely different again. Have you seen the average fell runner?! Ability to jump over fences and streams, fast walk up 45 degree slopes and basically "controlled fall down" them.
Nowhere near the same constant paced effort needed to do a timed flat-distance run.
Yes as CL says its very different although some fell runners transition to the road, Dave Cannon and Kenny Stuart spring to mind. I once got a shove in the back from Dave Cannon in the Sale 15 when a gap started to grow between me (in 4th place at the time) and a group of 3 pulling away. He is a big lad so I got out the way sharpish!
That said I know a couple of very good fell runners and their road/track times are no great shakes!
"Ah - I was thinking of suggesting that it might be possible for anybody to run a 5 minute mile."
Well, judging by the state of the average person in this country, I doubt more than say 10% of all people could possibly reach that level of performance. 5' mile is still bloody quick, and you need to be very, very fit. I'm not sure. Even with a lot of training, careful diet etc, I really don't think 'anybody' could achieve that.
" I'd be kind of surprised if you and your mate couldn't have done it if you had trained specifically for that over a long enough period."
Maybe. I think I've always been the kind of person who, when it comes to sports, possibly could go that little bit more, but I've never had the motivation. I think that's the 5% extra needed to really push yourself to perform harder, and I just don't have that, nor, I suspect, do most other folk.
Our club record is 4.32 .The holders best 5 km 15.40 .This from a 25 year old who trains hard.
I suspect, do most other folk.
You make a good point. Distance running is very much about a willingness to hurt yourself for at least a while when in competition. If you are capable of running say around 33 mins for 10k. The first 4+ miles are relatively pain free. The last 10 minutes can be torture once you are at your limit or hanging on. The vast majority of people dont want to do that.
Distance runners actually enjoy it 😈
Surprisingly enough, it seems the 4 minute mile is a lot easier - over 6000 times that's been done, but only 833 sub 10s 100m runs.
The list is here
http://www.alltime-athletics.com/m_mileok.htm
A quick play in the Excel with the first part of about 4824 out door performances shows that it contains 1193 unique names
I have to say that is more than I expected. But That seems way to elite for anyone can do it with a bit of effort. Looks to me like this thing that can be done by anyone has infact only been done by about 0.0002 % of the population. Even for allowing for quite alot of can be bothered that is not a big fraction
I use to run a bit. But I really couldn't run fast so I believe it was way beyond me. I think I once ran 3000m on a track (the only time I ran on a track) I think it took 12 minutes
[quote=ampthill ]The list is here
> http://www.alltime-athletics.com/m_mileok.htm
A quick play in the Excel with the first part of about 4824 out door performances shows that it contains 1193 unique names
Yeah, that's where my info is from - sorry should have given the link. And thanks for doing the excel, saves me a job - was just about to write a bash script for it!
the only person I know who could have would have been my brother in law (rip 🙁 ) if he'd carried on running, 800m in 1m.59.4s aged 13, 1500m in 4m.10.9s aged 14