[Closed] Scottish/British ?

I've never heard a Scot say they weren't British also. I've heard them complain about it a lot, but never heard them claim not to be.

I am British and a Scot. THere is an assumptoin that all that is British is English (usually from abroad) and there is a tendency to swap English into things when British is meant. In those cases i am a Scot to try to highlight to the ignorant that not all Brits are English.

I'm Scottish. And I'm British. I hate all this SNP independence crap - we are part of the UK and I for one think Salmond should sod off...

THere is an assumptoin that all that is British is English (usually from abroad) and there is a tendency to swap English into things when British is meant.

I concur about the from abroad, being myself guilty of it.

If you're at all interested in a view from south of the border, I consider myself English by nationality and culture and British is a geographical concept only, in other words I am British in the same way that I am European.

"Who opened the racist door?"

I'm English in Scotland. It's only since being here that I've realised just HOW protective the Scots are of their name. I often used to interchange british and english purely through lack of thought (never needed to think about the difference before) but now I actually have to be careful what I say as I don't really want to cause offence and I think the Scots national pride is a good thing. Not convinced they'd be better off completely independant though, it's a fairly helpful symbiosis.

I consider myself British. Of English birth of English parents living in Scotland most of my life and Scotland is my home. I sound English

I am as Scottish as you can get.

I sound English

I concur too. Mind you not sure "english" is exactly the term you are looking for. Pikey would be more appropriate I think 😉

I can certainly understand the idea that nationality is one thing - i.e English - but we are all resident in the island of Britain so it's like arguing black is white to my mind.

It's normally yanks who claim that Scots aren't British, usually to do with the romantic guff they swallow as 'history' but recently i've been having a conversation with a few Scots who also claim they are not British in any way, shape or form.
Britain as a geographical concept is fine and one i understand but Britain is still a pyhsical reality.

Consider myself British but when asked my nationality I would always say Scottish.

I would have thought that, barring some unpleasant misshap at some point causing mental scarring, most people would go with country>island>continent as their "tree of belonging."

I'm English in Scotland. It's only since being here that I've realised just HOW protective the Scots are of their name. I often used to interchange british and english purely through lack of thought (never needed to think about the difference before) but now I actually have to be careful what I say as I don't really want to cause offence and I think the Scots national pride is a good thing. Not convinced they'd be better off completely independant though, it's a fairly helpful symbiosis.

Thankyou. Sincerely. That is all most scots really want! Just an appreciation of the fact that English doesn't = british, and british doesn't = english, and it isn't ok to say british when whatever it is you are referring to is specifically scottish, or english, or Welsh or NI for that matter.

"Britsh soccer fans ran riot" is a classic example.

"British schools will get funding for xyz", is another which usually just means English and welsh schools, because, Scotland has a seperate education system

You can forgive/understand americans and other foreigners doing it, cos it's a pretty unique set up, but to hear that on the news IN the uk just makes blood boil.

Incidently, IMO, the media are are much better than they used to be.

As soon as get past our tribal history and realise that we are all humans first and only anything else by accident of birth, perhaps we may get along better. But then that's the idealist side of me. As a mongrel of the British Isles I'm proud of being English but proud of my Welsh and Scotish family background. The arguing over whose what and whose not sounds like being bunch siblings from a (my) family.

My mum was approached by an english woman in Birmingham, who asked her if she would mind taking part in a survey. She was asked if she lived in England. My mother replied "No, I'm actually visiting from Scotland". To which the woman said "Oh, but that's the same thing, really, isn't it?"
My mum, being a proud Scot, obviously educated her on the matter and walked off in indignation.

Not having a go at those who consider themsleves English / British whatever but the Scots still retain a very clear cultural & national identity - The English have lost that.

Thats the long and short of it imho and vive le difference!

the Scots still retain a very clear cultural & national identity - The English have lost that.

Explain. You can't lose a cultural identity. It may evolve, but it doesn't get lost.

[i]THere is an assumptoin that all that is British is English[/i]
Surely this only lasts until one actually sees the sickly bluey whiteish skintone of your typical scotch person?

*pulls up a seat on Offa's Dyke*

I don't really think this is one to get worked up about. The most common phrase in Scotland on this subject is actually "Scottish first, British Second" which is how a lot of Scottish people, regardless of their view on independence, view themselves. I don;t think there is anything wrong with that. I also don't see anything unusual about Scottish people asserting their identity from the position of being the smaller "partner" in the Union.

One thing I have found personally is that when abroad, it is definitely favourable to be "Scottish" rather than "British" (or English which is synonymous) due to the negative connotations that British/English has for many people.

Edit to add: Genuine question - are people using "Scotch" as a wind-up or is it used out of general ignorance of the correct nomenclature? I read it on here a lot on these types of thread.....

Im a European!

I'm English then European. I'll pop back when this all hots up a bit, this thread is still in it's infancy.

Per Swello really Trailmonkey although the term British has no resonance with me whatsoever - it's only a geographical collective. I'm sure many Scots consider themselves Scottish first and European second. Putting the evolution question back to you - what exactly has Englsih culture evolved into if it has not been all but lost? ( again not having a go)

[i]Genuine question - are people using "Scotch" as a wind-up or is it used out of general ignorance of the correct nomenclature? I read it on here a lot on these types of thread..[/i]
it IS the correct nomenclature for things scottish. Whisky, eggs, mist, people.

vive le difference!

Ahem [b]la différence[/b]

My apologies Juan - must try harder 😉

"Scotch" is not the term when referring to people (as you well know I suspect) - that would be "Scots" or "Scottish".

"Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind." ~Albert Einstein

I agree with Berty.

Nationalism is simple pride in the way/place/people you were brought up in/with. I see nothing wrong with that. To quote a genius without thinking about it or explaining your reasoning is far too easy!

I'm English but live in highland Scotland. The Scots do take a healthy pride in their national identity and character which is which is very different from the rest of the UK and Ireland. Will never move back to Englandland

Reckon 99% of people if questioned in the street would say they are English, Scottish or Welsh rather than British

[i]"Scotch" is not the term when referring to people (as you well know I suspect) - that would be "Scots" or "Scottish". [/i]

"Scops"(sic) is a kind of owl.
"Scottish" refers to the national football team.
The people, the pancakes and the tape - all "Scotch".

I class my self as Scottish.

I feel no connection to being "British". To me "Britain" purely represents a geographic location. In much the same was as someone from Brazil would be "Brazilian" but also "South American".

"Nationalism is simple pride in the way/place/people you were brought up in/with. I see nothing wrong with that. To quote a genius without thinking about it or explaining your reasoning is far too easy!"

I did think about it which is why I was reminded of the quote, which summed up what I think. Genius.

Putting the evolution question back to you - what exactly has Englsih culture evolved into if it has not been all but lost?

English culture is everything that we have and do. It's not something that you can lose. If you are trying to suggest that English culture has been lost due to multi culturalism, I would simply argue that it has been enhanced by it, Chicken Balti is as English as Yorkshire pud. If you think that Scots culture is undiluted and untouched by modernity, then you're sadly mistaken. Just as an example, I was standing next to a Scottish guy a couple of weeks ago, he had two tatoos on his arm one was a saltire, the other a picture of Mel Gibson with the word Braveheart underneath.

"Scottish first, British Second"

That's very sensible, and is the outlook of many people where I come from - Cornish first, [s]English[/s] / British second.

Outright nationalism might be infantile, but having a strong sense of identity and belonging is not. I currently live in Wales and have a very strong affinity with their outlook.

The ignorance / indifference of many English does come across as perceived or actual arrogance.

In terms of identification with Britishness - it is often claimed to be a vestige of Empire - The British Empire. To me it is clear - the individual Nations make up the State. The armed services are the most recognisable institutions of Britishness - after all, it's the British Army...

The most confusion come from the fact that the British Government sits in Westminster and also administers England. FWIW I don't support a separate English assembly - but that's a different debate.

"Nationalism the last bastion of the scoundrel" - some well known chappy whose name escapes me. Have nothing against waving the various flags (well not in Tripoli) with pride for your region. But it is a shame that history is viewed as "you did this so I'll hate you", rather than looking at the lessons that it could give. Also most blinkered Nationalist types don't look what bad their own country may have done, they only look at the bad of others they want (you) to hate.
It's not to hard to try and break every area/region down to what happened in history with those next door. But what is hard is getting along and living together.
Am I taking this to seriously?

The British Isles is a unique place, within Europe. Whether English, Scot, Welsh, Irish, the political boundaries cannot and will never distinguish that we are all from the British Isles.

I did think about it which is why I was reminded of the quote, which summed up what I think. Genius.

Still not explained 🙂

>English culture is everything that we have and do. It's not something that you can lose<

Yes I take you point but to put it more clearly I think the English have an identity issue or loss of identity that's not prevalent in Scotland and that's why the concept of Britishness is clearly so important to many people on here and elsewhere. Not having a go at English people - it's my perception in relation to the OP

>The people, the pancakes and the tape - all "Scotch". <

AndyP - "thrawn"

As a British citizen who has lived in a number of parts of England in the last 30 years, I find the level of feeling about this sort of thing a bit peculiar. I don't really understand what [i]sort[/i] of "connection" anyone expects to feel for "Britain". Apart from the fact that it is a political entity that issues my passport, protects me and largely ensures that my life is alright it doesn't seem to impinge very much at any emotional or consciousness level. It is just a fact, rather than something to get seriously emotional about. Same for "England", "London" or indeed anywhere else.

That leads to a slight suspicion that people who really do feel a sort of emotional attachment to somewhere are trying quite hard to feel that, and could just stop bothering if it suited them. What those Cornish patriots who offered to burn down Rick Stein's restaurant, for example, have going through their heads really just puzzles me. Ah well.

I think the English have an identity issue or loss of identity that's not prevalent in Scotland and that's why the concept of Britishness is clearly so important to many people on here and elsewhere.

I agree with some of that but I would change the tense from present to past. I think English identity is very strong now, just as a populist example, you're unlikely to spot a union jack amongst the crosses of St George at a sporting event. In fact, if anything, I'd suggest that the sense of being English is greater than it ever was.

I am British then English, Mum was born in India in the last days of the empire, gran was Scots and the rest are from Northumberland. I also live in Sweden. I don't feel comfortable with the English thing as I feel no connection with London and the South East which is the "English" bit of England in my eyes.

I have a question can Scotland become independent as it is a constituent country of the UK. Wouldn't it be more like a split or divorce?

I have just been informed that Mel Gibson isn't Scottish. 😯