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And I don’t see you making any arguments for more of the same anywhere except here.
Scotland has the same issues going on as the rUK, the solutions to those lie in both the Scottish and UK govts implementing policy to address those issues, rather than focusing on some fantastical catch-all remedy in the form of independence. Those in the SNP pedalling independence rather than doing their jobs in the Scottish and UK parliaments are no better than Nigel Farage and Rees Mogg et al.
Has Liz Truss thrown her hat into the ring yet?
"Did I ever mention I grew up in Paisley...?"
Good riddance, lets hope we get a party with some competence in who will start to try and improve Scotland not just divide and blame.
No party running a devolved country will be allowed to make a better job of it than whoever is running the UK, and if they actually manage it, even with their hands 'tied' by the finances being controlled by the UK, the UK Govt will ensure that their client media says otherwise.
But you Unionist don't actually want Scotland better than the other UK countries do you.
Scotland has the same issues going on as the rUK, the solutions to those lie in both the Scottish and UK govts implementing policy to address those issues, rather than focusing on some fantastical catch-all remedy in the form of independence. Those in the SNP pedalling independence rather than doing their jobs in the Scottish and UK parliaments are no better than Nigel Farage and Rees Mogg et al
This^^^^^
Independence is the simple answer to a complex problem. It won't fix anything, it will just compound issues. Brexit was exactly the same.
Not just bias, but actual conspiracy theory – that Humza Yusuf was under the sway of “the Mosque”. Which mosque and how? Never answered…
Not sure if you actually follow much Scottish news, but 'the mosque' is in relation to a story that he avoided the gay marriage vote due to, according to Alex Neil, 'pressure from the mosque.'
We don't know anything more than that so unfortunately we can't tell you which mosque or if it even meant an actual mosque.
You'll have to ask Yousaf yourself if it's that important to you.
But you Unionist don’t actually want Scotland better than the other UK countries do you
Utter drivel. I would like the whole of the UK to be improved. Independence will make matters far worse for Scotland.
This comment proves my earlier point about division. The SNP like all nationalists thrive on division.
Who’s being bankrupted? Have I missed something?
You would be forgiven if you had missed it.
You may or may not have missed Scotland being expelled from the EU. That's real damage not a hypothetical.
Scotland has the same issues going on as the rUK
Yes, because Scotland is in the UK. Leaving the UK means we don't have to keep appeasing English racists and can actually implement policies that don't require us to keep our 'sovereignty' (whatever the hell that means).
Like, you know, talking to the EU. And maybe even agreeing some stuff, who knows.
But as a Brexiteer I know you feel this won't make any difference and Make Brexit Work is the only solution.
Utter drivel. I would like the whole of the UK to be improved
I'd like Emily Blunt to call me and invite me out to dinner.
Anyone else want to share their completely unrealistic fantasies?
Good riddance, lets hope we get a party with some competence in who will start to try and improve Scotland not just divide and blame.
So which party do you think is going to achieve any of your points: competence, improve Scotland, not divide and blame?
- Douglas Ross and Anas Sarwar aren't exactly oozing with competence. They are branch leaders of their parent parties.
- improving Scotland is obviously subjective, but I've not heard anyone with a plan for that?
- all new incumbents blame the last lot for at least the first half of the term
- any potential new incumbent who says "thinking about indy was the issue" seems to be dividing and blaming
This. Independence was always a fkn stupid idea so lets hope it’s dead and buried for the forseeable.
A failure to recognise why people want indy and how to address that was always a stupid idea, it won't go away. It might never get sufficient majority to force it to happen but when over 1/3rd of the electorate are vocal about a topic you can't simply ignore it and tell them they are stupid. Especially not with something like Indy.
Anyone else want to share their completely unrealistic fantasies?
This coming from an Independence supporter is laughable.
John Swinney to make a comeback. Safe pair of hands apparently.
Makes a lot of sense and if he does it it really will be taking one for the team.
Next couple of elections are going to be brutal for the SNP. Some interesting prospects for future leadership out there but I think having one of the old guard take a kicking and then let the next generation rebuild will be a good strategy.
Assuming that's the plan.
Not sure why the indy argument is up again, i've never heard any real argument for or against it since the last vote, it's all maybe this, maybe that either way, so a pretty useless argument to have with the current issue.
As for Scottish Labour, i've never seen the reasoning why folk think they'd help the SNP in any way, i remember how the SNP basically snaffled up the Labour votes in Scotland and drove them to near extinction, folk think that because they're both similar in outlooks to the tories, they should be allies, but as we've seen in the last 20 years, that's meant Labour losing 40 MPs in Parliament and going from 1st to last in Holyrood. It's weird, but opposites are better in many cases, they're not hunting the same voters, and not trying to undermine the other to gain vote share, the more natural pairing for me would be the tories and SNP 😂
A candidate who was not hell bent on indy ASAP
The SNP hasn't been hell bent on Indy for about 10 years. They'll occasionally dig out a "prepare for Indy" quote when there's an election in the office, then drop the pretence for a while. Now, you can argue that just getting on and running the country is more important short term but the sort of long term strategic thinking required hasn't been forthcoming, and won't be possible while Westminster holds the power and purse strings.
As I said earlier on this thread many actual Indy supporters have switched off and I'm waiting to see if they'll bother to turn out to vote any time soon.
This coming from an Independence supporter is laughable.
Yes, no country that has gained independence has ever succeeded in any way shape or form. Each and every time they have gone crawling back to the country they gained independence from.
‘the mosque’ is in relation to a story that he avoided the gay marriage vote due to, according to Alex Neil, ‘pressure from the mosque.’
You and TJ are not just making passing reference to Neil's conspiracy theory about Yousaf being under the sway of "the mosque". You're adopting it and saying "the mosque" controlled Yousaf's political survival:
He could have avoided placating the mosque, lost their support in the next election, and then we wouldn’t have to bother talking about him.
You, TJ and Neil should have some rational basis for your believe that Yousaf is under control of "the mosque" if you're going to spout it - but now you're saying you don't even know what you mean when you said it. This all sounds just like the recycled conspiracy theories about Catholics and Jews being untrustworthy politicians because they're under the shadowy control of their faiths.
Edit: this is a genuine lol in context!
we don’t have to keep appeasing English racists
Scotland is 95.5% white, non-EU immigrants are half as likely to move there as the rest of the UK, and according to some on here the first ethnic minority leader of Scotland was secretly dependent on "the mosque" for his political survival...and the problem is "English racists"! 😆
god botherer isn’t a derogatory term for religious people.
well as a religious person I find it mildly derogatory and offensive. Something you may wish to consider in future (although tbf I don’t think it was you who used the term)
just to be clear however, I also don’t think religious persuasion should be allowed to influence political decision making
You would be forgiven if you had missed it.
I missed it because it hasn't happened. No one has been bankrupted. Countries like the UK can't go bankrupt.
You, TJ and Neil should have some rational basis for your believe that Yousaf is under control of “the mosque” if you’re going to spout it – but now you’re saying you don’t even know what you mean when you said it. This all sounds just like the recycled conspiracy theories about Catholics and Jews being untrustworthy politicians because they’re under the shadowy control of their faiths.
It's true, we simply have no idea what Neil meant by 'the mosque'.
Again, I'm not sure if you are familiar with Scottish politics but Yousaf was forced to move his constituency office because it kept getting vandalised and covered in racist graffiti.
In terms of 'the mosque':
It could be simply that he was following what was expected of him by his religion.
It could be that he relied on the religious community in terms of electoral support (both votes and volunteering).
It could be he needed the moral support just to keep going in the face of the daily racial abuse he was receiving.
Or it could be none of these and Neil was talking bollocks.
Now, you seem to want to suggest I've said something Islamaphobic. It could well be I did in which case I apologise. However, I was quoting a newspaper article and giving my interpretation which may well be wrong. I've said as much.
So, do you genuinely believe I said something Islamaphobic in which case I'm happy to admit it was and apologise?
Or are you just trying to score cheap internet argument points?
But as a Brexiteer I know you feel this won’t make any difference
If I were a brexiteer I'd be 100% behind scottish independence because the exact same arguments and logic apply to both.
well as a religious person I find it mildly derogatory and offensive. Something you may wish to consider in future (although tbf I don’t think it was you who used the term)
If there is a non-derogatory term for the kind of person who feels the need to knock on my door while I'm trying to make dinner for the kids (while simultaneously keeping their argument over the TV remote from escalating to full-blown violence) in order to ask me if I've heard of our saviour Jesus Christ then I'm all ears.
Honestly, god botherer seems like the least derogatory thing I can think of to call them.
But again, it's not a term for all religious people, at least in my opinion.
As I said earlier, only if you’re not very bright.
Putting up barriers to your nearest and largest trading partner is what Brexit has done and is exactly what will happen in the event of Scottish independence. Have the trade barriers we have put in place been good or bad for the UK?
I suspect it’s willful ignorance rather than lacking the mental capacity.
Funny isn't it how the same people leading the arguments for staying in the EU were the same people leading the arguments against independence. It's to the huge credit of the Scottish electorate that they weren't taken in like their English brethren were.
At least Nicola Sturgeon's mum got a campervan out of it though. Which is nice
Honestly, god botherer seems like the least derogatory thing I can think of to call them.
In the circumstances you describe (for which I've every sympathy) I'd have thought Bruce botherer would be a better term than god botherer.
At least Nicola Sturgeon’s mum got a campervan out of it though. Which is nice
If thats all she got then the snp are absolute ****ing amateurs at the game compared to what the Tory lackeys have received, I guess everyone has forgiven Robert Jenrick
———— Mod Notice ————
Please play nice in the thread we are receiving numerous reports about this thread. If you can’t discuss it in a reasonable manner will give you enforced breaks. If it still continues then the thread will be closed.
Thanks.
Sad news Humza has gone. His wisdom, integrity, and inclusive style of govt will be sadly missed.
The SNP govewrnment has of course greatly improved things in ~Scotland - from land ownership to reducing poverty. could the4y have done better? Of cou8rse but that should not blind you to what they have done well.
No NHS strikes in Scotland. No teachers strikes. A fair amount of land to community / state hands. An end to parking charges in NHS properties wehere possible. an end to the creeping privitisation of the NHS. an NHS that performs better than england. Less poverty via the scoittish child payment and changes to taxation. Nurse are higher paid here. Some movement towards green energy and creating infrastructure to accommodate this. Clamp down on grouse moors, bringing benefit assessments back in house so as to make the system fairer etc etc etc
One thing in this polarised debate is that unionists will never give the SNP led government any credit even tho by any objective measures its done a lot given the paucity of powers ( no real finance powers)
I am no ideological indepe4ndence supporter but in my heart I belie4ve and independent Scotland would be a better place to live than a Scotland remaining held back by rUK
Dsazh - please stop showing your complete lack of undewrstanding of the independence debate. We have unionists on here that do understand and we can debate with them reasonably it but your constant equating of the SNP with the hard right brexiteers is both ignorant and offensive
You, TJ and Neil should have some rational basis for your believe that Yousaf is under control of “the mosque”
I did not say control. I said influence and its clear he is as I have demonstrated to you. His actions over the assisted dying bill make this clear
Lolz at IRC
It’s to the huge credit of the Scottish electorate that they weren’t taken in like their English brethren were.
And here we are.
Worth remembering that independence had a prospectus to reject. You knew what you were voting against. With the EU referendum, the leave case was unclear, and very different to what they did to us. I did not know what I was voting against, just a vague hunch that people like Johnson should not be trusted.
And indy was a real referendum.
Please play nice in the thread we are receiving numerous reports about this thread. If you can’t discuss it in a reasonable manner will give you enforced breaks. If it still continues then the thread will be closed.
It's a bit difficult when there are so many people who have clearly paid no attention to Scottish news in months (or years) who have decided today is the day to come to this thread and spout their completely un-informed opinion as fact.
There's plenty to talk about in terms of future SNP leadership (amongst many other things) but it's difficult to discuss anything when it's impossible to tell what is trolling and what is just pure ignorance.
Yeah that ^ wot brucewee posted, my mum put it well earlier but I’d better not post as I’d get banned for what she said regarding English politics and those that vote Tory
Bit like worrying about the internal politics of a glorified county council.
Trolling effort : 4/10
Trolling effort : 4/10
A light hearted joke. Should know better though that no humour is allowed on these threads.
Dazh. You are being offensive
"it’s probably because scottish politics is somewhat parochial and irrelevant to the vast majority of the rest of us
Whereas we get large chunks of English politics day in day out Crossrail ,HS2, Northern Powerhouse blah blah blah.
As I said earlier on this thread many actual Indy supporters have switched off and I’m waiting to see if they’ll bother to turn out to vote any time soon.
I live in the Borders, imagine not voting and our Tory MP gets a stay of execution?
In a macabre kind way I'm almost hoping that the Tories get to put their policies fully into Scotland. Until folk are actually 'burnt' they don't really understand the impact of the policies they're supporting.
Chap I work with was blathering on about "small govt" last week. He got all worked up when I suggested that an approach to "small govt" could mean stopping state provided education and folk paying for their own kids (he's got 3). I added that we'd sent ours to private schools, so maybe he just wasn't working "hard" enough 🙂
Lord Sugar fires Humza
(Although I think its a truism that the vast majority in the UK (and hence reading this forum) don’t give two hoots about whats going on with the SNP and Scottish politics.)
Good, in that case you won’t mind if we have another referendum………oh wait……….suddenly you give a ****.
😉
Although I think its a truism that the vast majority in the UK (and hence reading this forum) don’t give two hoots about whats going on with the SNP and Scottish politics.
They probably wouldn't open the thread to tell people that though, would they?
Dazh. You are being offensive
Really? It was clearly a joke. I certainly don't find it offensive.