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However, you stick your shirt over your head and shout 'goal' if it makes you happy
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The former has been estimated at between £48Bn and £96Bn, so while it's not 100% clear, we do have some bounds. As for the latter, since we don't know what the total oil reserves are, the split can't be identified 🙂 However, both a Scottish and English ocean sector are already recognised under international maritime law.allthepies - Member
Interesting points on CH4 news just now, just how much of the national debt would Scotland take on and also how much of oil reserves would come under Scottish control.
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As for the latter, since we don't know what the total oil reserves are, the split can't be identified
I was talking about geographical regions really.
An observation:
I take with a pinch of salt anything I hear on the mainstream UK media. Only last night, it was stated by a reporter that an independent Scotland would have to negotiate entry to the EU. Now, he may turn out to be correct, but there are currently arguments on both sides. Stating one as [i]absolute fact[/i] is either poor, or biased reporting.
So, are we all going to have to replace the Union Jack with something else?
And will the Queen sell Balmoral? And would Scotland have a king (some descendant of Bonny Prince Charlie) or a president?
EDIT: nothing on the SNP website, hence my question here.
1966?
I remember 1967 though.Pals at work never stop banging on about some bloke called Jim Baxter..
http://ssa.nls.uk/film.cfm?fid=6813
Current plans are that Scotland retains the monarchy. Remember, Scotland and England shared a monarch before 1707 and the Queen is still notional head of state across the commonwealth.
The Queen owns Balmoral. I can't see why she would want to sell it. Were you looking to put in an offer?
Edit: forget all the Bonnie Prince Charlie nonsense. That was a religious, not a national war.
Well in fairness Druidh, it WAS a National war - just a Scottish National Civil War that England got dragged into.
Mind you, i'm still a bit sore about a French-inspired Scottish Monarch causing a two British Civil Wars with his daft ideas about divine rule... 😉
Remember, Scotland and England shared a monarch before 1707
OK, I hate quoting Wikipedia. Made-up facts and quotes are far superior. Whatever, the first King to try this, King James, declared that Great Britain be viewed as:
presently united, and as one realm and kingdom, and the subjects of both realms as one people
So he was looking forward, but we'll be looking back. I don't think it will work for very long.
I think the Union has been a force for good, and we're better together and weaker apart. So shoot me, or worse, add me to that killfile thing.
Perhaps we should refer to it as a religious war?. The Jacobite army marched south in order to put Charles Edward Stuart on the throne of Great Britain. There were Jacobean supporters in England - just not very many 🙂muddydwarf - Member
Well in fairness Druidh, it WAS a National war - just a Scottish National Civil War that England got dragged into.
I won't.oldnpastit - Member
we'll be looking back.....I think the Union has been a force for good, and we're better together and weaker apart
Looking back is about the best that the dependence parties can currently offer in support of their position. They need to provide a coherent view of why Scotland should continue in its current partnership with England, not hark back to the days of empire and war.
When we have interests in common, we will continue to work together. As an example, a combined Scottish/rUK voting bloc at the EU would be larger than the current UK one.
Well, there were more on his way down than on his way back that's for sure Druidh!
I believe towns that cheered him South then jeered him North!
I agree it was a religiously inspired conflict, nowadays you just send your religously-inspired football 'fans' to wreck Manchester... 😛
Czechoslovakia managed to separate into two nations quite easily recently so the potential infrastructure issues which people keep raising can be resolved.
Well apart from (present day) Northumberland and Cumbria - where there was broad support (and some of the leadership) for the Jacobean cause. As such, I propose these currently occupied territories be added to the post-colonial independent nation.There were Jacobean supporters in England - just not very many
Tell you what, we'll do it along ancient ethnic lines, and considering the Southern Scots lowlands were invaded and populated by Saxons - apart from Strathclyde which is why AEthelstan knew them as the Strathclyde Welsh - then the Scottish lowlands will stay as part of the new East and West Marches of England and the true Ethnic Scots can go back into their mountains 😛
EDIT : TJ has to stay with the Ethnic Scots though, preferably on an island without broadband...
[i]Czechoslovakia managed to separate into two nations quite easily recently so the potential infrastructure issues which people keep raising can be resolved. [/i]
True, but it was only created in 1918 and then post-1945 they kicked out most of the non-Czechs/Slovaks - plus it split during good 'times' with plenty of EU/US cash around.
b r - MemberCzechoslovakia managed to separate into two nations quite easily recently so the potential infrastructure issues which people keep raising can be resolved.
True, but it was only created in 1918 and then post-1945 they kicked out most of the non-Czechs/Slovaks - plus it split during good 'times' with plenty of EU/US cash around.
Age of the state largely irrelevant IMHO as far as the infrastructure seperation issues raised so far as they are all relatively recent/modern. Can't see the relevance of the expulsion or otherwise of ethnic groups in a Soviet satellite state either.Scotland already has a modern democratic capitalist economy and up to date infrastructure(health,transport,education etc) and maybe some oil revenue too so won't need to rely on financial support.
Turns out King Salmond the 1st supported RBS's failed bid to buy ABN Amro in 2009. If Scotland does get independence i hope someone else is put in charge of the economy.
Here's an interesting piece by Faisal Islam, which asks a series of questions about the economic independence of Scotland:
What is particularly interesting is the currency question:
Will an independent Scotland stay in the “sterling zone”? So will Scotland be any better off from being tagged to a central bank that takes no notice of its economic conditions? Surely the singular lesson of the past year is that a monetary union requires fiscal coordination/ control. Could Scotland “print money” independently to lower its own long term interest rates? Would the UK Treasury have to send inspectors to Holyrood in 2016, like the ECB/EU has sent teams to Dublin/ Athens/ Lisbon?
The question of national debt is also interesting. Based on population an independent Scotland would take about £80bn in debt. That is about 80% of its economy.
Of course all these questions nobody can answer will depend on the type of independence being voted for. That is the big question.
As I'd already posted, it's worth bearing in mind that the Czechoslovakian split only came after they had disagreements on a more "federal" solution. I see this as one of the outcomes of any "Devo-Max" option in the UK. Even if a Federal UK could be set up, with all terms agreed, it would only last as long as the next illegal war or nuclear delivery platform upgrade.
Of course, Scotland could survive economically as an independent nation with an economy bigger than New Zealand. There has been much carping about Mr Salmond’s arc of prosperity speech (Iceland, Ireland etc). But it is absurd scaremongering to suggest that Scotland would suddenly go bankrupt. The question is will Scotland be better off? I think it’s fair to say that a successful euro made the purely economic case for Scottish independence much stronger. The euro’s problems and evolution has changed the game though. Scotland would have to seriously consider its role within one of two currency unions: the eurozone, or the sterling zone.
Scotland would have to seriously consider its role within one of two currency unions: the eurozone, or the sterling zone
What makes them think that being in the sterling zone will be an option?
"Recognise the hills in the background - probably not, unless you happen to live in Dunoon..."
I'm too drained after a day's battle about this on FB and with my Scouse work colleagues, however I can't ignore the quote above. Great to see Dunoon getting a rare mention on STW, thanks. *eyes go all misty with homesick nostalgia*
Quite a nice piece from James Naughtie on BBC:
It turns out that in the argument over Scotland's future in the United Kingdom, the politically paradoxical is more interesting than any legal furore that might flare up over the coming referendum.Consider two facts. Michael Moore, Liberal Democrat and Secretary of State for Scotland, says there should - must - be a straight yes-no question on independence on the referendum ballot paper, though he and his party are historically committed to the increase of powers for the Edinburgh parliament within the UK known as "devo max".
And Alex Salmond, Nationalist and First Minister, whose party regards that option as a false kind of non-independence, says it must be offered as an alternative because many Scots might want to choose it. Work that one out.
[so its not just me that noticed this confusion!!]
The answer is simpler than it may at first appear. Both sides in the argument have been forced by David Cameron's intervention to make the first moves in what is going to be an absorbing chess game lasting at least 18 months, and naturally they have chosen to attack - to try to find their opponent's tender spots.
[have I mentioned, caught napping?]
Leave aside for a moment the prime minister's decision to force the pace and remind Scotland of Westminster's legislative supremacy on constitutional matters - whether it turns out to be cackhanded or a skilful change of pace will be determined by the way ministers address the question in the coming months, and the tone they adopt.
Let them go their own way if they want. Yes, yes, we are going to work harder down South without their "oil" but not a big problem really.
Yes, yes, there has been a union for a long time but I guess it's only a matter of time before someone stir up some shite and if they want the fish to lead them so be it. Good or bad after that they can only blame the fish and not someone south of their border or blame their previous governments ... for the past 300 years.
By the way Scottish smoked salmon is over rated and over priced. What's all this shite about best salmon fish come from Scotland eh? What a load of turds.
The drugs appear to have worn off.
" What a load of turds."
You're thinking of Mersey Trouts not salmon dunder-heid.
By the way Scottish smoked salmon is over rated and over priced. What's all this shite about best salmon fish come from Scotland eh? What a load of turds.
Very good point. I sometimes buy Norwegian smoked salmon, and it's half the price and just as nice. I find it bewildering that the 'home grown' product is so expensive. It's not like labour/production costs are lower in Norway, they're higher ffs!
And whiskey isn't really Scottish, is it? Doesn't most of the flavour comes from the secondhand barrels they import? 😉
Looking at it from a residency point of view, the scottish government consider people to be scottish after 3 years of residency, it seems, if you go by the student fees arrangements. I presume if they can make that figure stick for that reason, you'd be elligible for citizenship if you've lived here for 3 years or more.
(Englishman in Glasgow for 4 years now) Hoping my biking skills aren't assessed.
Whiskey isn't Scottish at all 🙂CaptJon - Member
And whiskey isn't really Scottish, is it? Doesn't most of the flavour comes from the secondhand barrels they import?
Whisk[s]e[/s]y isn't Scottish at all
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😉
Zokes - I ain't tried that, but there's a couple of lovely whiskys coming out of Penderyn in Wales.
CaptJon - MemberAnd whiskey isn't really Scottish, is it? Doesn't most of the flavour comes from the secondhand barrels they import?
Propaganda by so called wiskey "experts"?
[i]Looking at it from a residency point of view, the scottish government consider people to be scottish after 3 years of residency, it seems, if you go by the student fees arrangements. I presume if they can make that figure stick for that reason, you'd be elligible for citizenship if you've lived here for 3 years or more.[/i]
But that is using something that is controlled (date of entry to UK), rather than something uncontrolled. "Yes, I've lived here for 4 years".
Its always the details...
Here's an [s]interesting[/s] [b]selective[/b] piece by Faisal Islam, which asks a series of [b]loaded[/b] questions about the economic independence of Scotland:[b]just as he was selective about which "facts" he used when trying to put a case for Shetland being still in Norway.[/b]
FTFY
Zokes - I ain't tried that, but there's a couple of lovely whiskys coming out of Penderyn in Wales.
It's still a bit rough around the edges being so young (my bottle is only 3 years), but it certainly seems to have promise. Personally I've never got on with the Penderyn - nothing wrong with it, but I reckon it it were a Scottish whisky it would just get lost amongst the competition.
Seriously good in its own right, however, is this from Tasmania (a place that seems to be getting into whisky in a big way):
[url= http://www.spirosbottleshops.com.au/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/267x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/H/e/HellyersRoadpeated.jp g" target="_blank">http://www.spirosbottleshops.com.au/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/267x/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/H/e/HellyersRoadpeated.jp g"/> [/img] [/url]
I even saw a bottle of Kiwi whisky in the shop recently....
duckman - he's a journalist, of course the questions are loaded! It doesn't stop the question he asks, and issues he raises being interesting and important.
After watching Wee Alex on Newsnight last night, all I can say is I wished I lived in his world.
The one where I get everything my own way. Where my interests come before the rest of the UK. Where the world is full of tweety birds and fwuffy bunnies. Where all my requests are met, without question. Where I have to supply no pesky detail of my loopy unworkable cloud-cuckoo land ideas. Where a large group of people support my mad ideas due to pure tribalism, without needing anything more than a banner to rally behind. Where my previous suicidally daft economic policies are never thrown back in my face
Ah.... if only
duckman - he's a journalist, of course the questions are loaded! It doesn't stop the question he asks, and issues he raises being interesting and important.
He actually seems to have an axe to grind. I wonder if he was warning us all off RBS in 2007?
binners - Member
After watching Wee Alex on Newsnight last night, all I can say is I wished I lived in his world.The one where I get everything my own way. Where my interests come before the rest of the UK. Where the world is full of tweety birds and fwuffy bunnies. Where all my requests are met, without question. Where I have to supply no pesky detail of my loopy unworkable cloud-cuckoo land ideas. Where a large group of people support my mad ideas due to pure tribalism, without needing anything more than a banner to rally behind. Where my previous suicidally daft economic policies are never thrown back in my face
Ah.... if only
Posted 28 minutes ago # Report-Post
You will Binners....As long as you vote Tory in a devolved UK
Binners did we watch different versions of Newsnight?
He made some reasonable points IMHO..you are getting a bit frothy ...though you have not quite become a swivel eyed loon
Was watching this on the news last night and one thing did pop out to me. Know how they are going to devolve the power to scotland to hold a binding referendum, is that a one time only thing or a permanent devolution of power?
I doubt England would want Scotland to go to the euro regardless. Salmond stated last night that Scotland would continue to use Stirling until the people decided against it.wrecker - Member
Scotland would have to seriously consider its role within one of two currency unions: the eurozone, or the sterling zone
What makes them think that being in the sterling zone will be an option?
Junkyard. I just think Alex Salmond is getting a very easy ride from the press. I think he's effectively shifted the onus onto Call Me Dave and chums to come up with answers, while he sits back and flannels. Very effectively, I might add
Its ironic. As its the same kind of thing Call Me Dave did on the run up to the last general election. Dodged questions, gave vague, fluffy non-commital answers, certainly no commitments or certainties. "We'll announce that later.... etc etc. Except they never do, obviously
Its exactly what Alex Salmond is doing now. Which is ok at this point, but as a referendum gets closer, you'd hope he'd be pressed for solid commitments
Dave wasn't though, so I'm not holding my breath
YouGov poll showed that 33% of Scots who were questioned backed independence, while 53% were against, with 14% undecided.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/poll_shows_rise_in_support_for_scottish_independence_1_2050012
Hahahahah - Good luck with that referendum Alec - you've got a LONG way to go to get to 50% 😆