Really Jamba? Like who?
Well there are people of all nationalities who do have a vote as they are enjoying all the benefits of living in Scotland.
Out of interest Gordi, how did the 16-18s vote and should the older generation respect their decision?
But you can't have it both ways
you can easily con people into thinking that is what they are getting though.
The indy referendum allowed everyone over 16 living in Scotland to vote, unlike the EU referendum which excluded one large group living in the UK from voting.
No it didn't, lots of people were excluded who live in Scotland
really - who big and daft? - and please tell me - do you live in Scotland?
Imagine if 70% of them voted to remain part of a union but their elders preferred to ignore them and agitate for the opposite result and to withdraw them from the same union. Imagine what that would feel like.
Imagine too how they would feel if non-Scots came and voted against their wishes.
Nice to see this still going nowhere, interesting voter map
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/132687
Imagine too how they would feel if non-Scots came and voted against their wishes.
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Big and daft - are you going to answer? Do you live in England or Scotland? the reason I ask is your knowledge of what is happening in scotland seems to come solely from the right wing english press
I'd also like you to answer "who do you think was denied a vote in the last indepoendence referendum?" as you claimed many folk living in scotland were denied a vote
So we have complaints that, instead of the 13 ships mooted before the referendum, Glasgow shipyards are only getting 18 ships instead (13 firm, 5 probable)...
Imagine too how they would feel if non-Scots came and voted against their wishes.
You mean like all the people who live here but who don't hold UK passports or are english born that had a vote in the independence referendum? They were welcomed because by living here they had a stake in the outcome therefore should have a say. People like my Danish friend who runs a small business in Edinburgh employing 4 folk. People like my dutch friend who has a small farm. People like me - english born but long time resident. We all rightfully got a vote
this is one of the things folk fail to grasp. We are the people of scotland and " it doesn't matter where you come from as a person, what matters is where we are going as a country"
[quote=scotroutes > http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-37871888
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Interesting - it appears that Nicola's posturing is potentially threatening jobs in Scotland...
...or Westminsters failure to deliver on its pledges is potentially threatening the union...
Those pledges were of course predicated on Scotland staying in the union - if it's now threatening not to, then how surprising is it that the UK government is reconsidering it's position on spending its money supporting jobs somewhere where the taxes on the wages it's paying won't be coming back to it by the end of the contract? You seem to have it backwards - the threat to the union came before the reconsideration of this particular pledge.
So in order to persuade us to stay they're going to take away our work to teach us a lesson?
Sounds like the kind of relationship it's best to get the hell out of.
Big and daft - can yo answer the questions put to you or do we assume you are talking out of your hat?
[quote=BruceWee ]So in order to persuade us to stay they're going to take away our work to teach us a lesson?
You still don't get it do you? This has nothing to do with teaching you a lesson, it's all about the practical politics of spending government money somewhere which may not be paying taxes back to that government. This is the real world, not playground games.
You still don't get it do you? This has nothing to do with teaching you a lesson, it's all about the practical politics of spending government money somewhere which may not be paying taxes back to that government. This is the real world, not playground games.
And you still don't get it, do you? Scotland often finds itself treated like Westminster's playground.
QED
Yes - and in the real world those ships were a solemn promise if we voted no. Just another broken promise
UK government orders for the supply ships went to South Korea. Do the workers there pay tax in the uk?
Lots of defence spending is outside the UK - the only reason so much of it is inside the UK is because they pay their taxes here, a point which undoubtedly applies to these shipbuilding contracts.
There's possibly an argument that a country should keep essential skills in industries like shipbuilding but I can't see how the tax argument stands up at all when the UK government awards contracts to overseas shipbuilders.
Still the main point is promised 13 two years ago now it's 8. Anyone betting against further reductions before the contract is completed?
the only reason so much of it is inside the UK is because they pay their taxes here
Is it? I thought it was because it was policy for anything with 'sensitive' equipment within to only be built within the UK.
8 sort of promised but no contracts signed yet
[quote=gordimhor ]I can't see how the tax argument stands up at all when the UK government awards contracts to overseas shipbuilders.
So if a single bolt is bought from outside the UK, the argument that we procure stuff within the UK because that results in UK jobs and money recirculating fails? Or if not a single bolt, just how much would you have to procure from outside the UK - 10 bolts? a batch of steel? 1 ship out of 100?
It's a laughable argument given why we're discussing it!
Those E3Ds I once did some work on must be a figment of my imagination then, km79.
That's a 450 million pound bolt aracer.
Now we're just haggling over the price.
Not really just pointing out the scale of the contracts the UK has already given to other countries. Meantime the same government which you say is wise to break its promise to build 13ships on the Clyde in case we become independent, is telling us that we won't be allowed to have a legally binding referendum anyway
At least Westminster is showing its true colours, I remember the love bombing; I felt so special! Like I mattered...where did it all go? Oh yes;we voted to stay! Aracer; you seem to be arguing that we should be grateful for what we have,smaller order; delayed and with an opt out clause that,bearing in mind the overseas tendering, is nothing more than a threat to Scotland?
In the long term, being ruled by incompetents will cost more than any amount of ship building orders.
Sums up the Nats in a. Nutshell
What was offered? 13 ships
Whtt was delivered? 18 ships
What was the response? Wah, wah, life's not fair, you are breakingn your promises
No really!! The next thing people who argue that Scotland suffers because of the overall level of defence spending in the UK will be up in arms.
At least the Navy will always be able to know which Frigates were made in Scotland. When they turn the engines off, they will still be able to hear the whining.
Have we done the Bernard Ponsonby interview?
So what can we take from that? That the ships will be built on the Clyde, with or without Scottish independence. Because BAE aren't daft, they'd never sign a contract with a get-out Scottish Independence clause. No company with half a brain would, especially not a multinational arms company who knows that no-one else can build these ships. And there's nowhere else in the UK they could be built, not without insane levels of investment.
THM coming into a forum to moan about Scots moaning,downgraded because he forgot a hastag. Sums up little Englanders in a nutshell. Good you are coming up here next week, be yourself; it will add a couple of % to the yes vote next time.
aracer - Member
BruceWee » So in order to persuade us to stay they're going to take away our work to teach us a lesson?
You still don't get it do you? This has nothing to do with teaching you a lesson, it's all about the practical politics of spending government money somewhere which may not be paying taxes back to that government. This is the real world, not playground games.
And there you have it.
In the real world the only answer to that is to have a government which is directly accountable to the people of the country, not one in another country which may or may not drip bounty your way.
Aracer has given us a good case for independence.
Link to back up your claim about number of ships thm
THM coming into a forum to moan about Scots
..misrepresenting the truth
Sums up little Englanders in a nutshell.
Yes, prefer truth to BS. If that makes us little, what does that say about you guys?
Good you are coming up here next week, be yourself; it will add a couple of % to the yes vote next tim
Thank you, so spending money in Scotland adds votes to yes. You argument gets worse by the day. Fortunately staying with educated Scots who all voted with their heads and their children whose views the SNP wish to ignore.
Of course, gordi. I will post the links in return for an answer to my question about how did 16-17 votes and what do you think their reaction is to the the way their votes/opinions are now being treated.
Sums up little Englanders in a nutshell.Yes, prefer truth to BS
Little Englanders prefer truth to BS while Scots prefer BS to truth?
How's this preferring truth working out for you so far this year?
trouble is what THM keeps calling bullshit he has been proven wrong and called out on multiple times. But his mixture of arrogance and ignorance means he cannot accept this.
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trouble is what THM keeps calling bullshit he has been proven wrong and called out on multiple times. But his mixture of arrogance and ignorance means he cannot
Says a guy who gets picked up for posting false things on a daily basis.
BrucE - it is interesting (or worrying when you talk about polls) that you basically have two polls. Ascrofts based in a smaller survey and the YouGov on a bigger one, giving different really. YouGov gives 16-17 preferring remaining in the Union, but Ashcroft is much stronger verdict in opposite direct - albeit off a smaller sample. Weird.
It's not wrong just different. Genuinely surprised to have two polls with different results and markedly so.
Na - I think its all about self esteem. Looks pretty obvious from where I sit. However I am getting into dangerous territorial here - beware the banhammer. I block him as his posts had no value but just irritate- I suggest you others either do the same or report him every time he makes his racial slurs, personal insults or malicious trolls
