Where should I look to see the SNP’s proposals for independence? I presume they will have changed since prior to the last referendum, a lot of things have changed and they were far from convincing back then iirc.
Well, SNP have my vote in May.
I'd like to have another referendum. See what the Yes parties suggestions are and see how they relate to the situation at the time (having let Brexit play out some more).
No guarantee how I'll vote. Went Yes last time, but seeing the Brexit stuff will make sure I'm a lot more objective about judging the arguments for/against.
In other news, my parents were both Yes voters but now would vote No, as they also voted to leave the EU in the Brexit referendum and don't want to go back in. they think the SNP are commies.
Kenny, if the people of Scotland really don’t want another independence referendum, when balanced against all the other issues Scotland faces, they have a number of options in May. If the SNP and Greens can’t achieve a majority at Holyrood the issue will be kicked down the road for another 5 years. In that regard, the same problem faces the Union in both Holyrood and Westminster – a lack of credible opposition to hold the government to account.
Agreed, but I still can't get an answer to the question I posed yesterday. The SNP demand that the wishes of the Scottish people be respected. But when the Scottish people vote again and again and again for parties opposed to another referendum the SNP ignore them. Why is that?
You do realise that the unionist parties mention independence far more than the SNP
Yep. take a look at the Twitter feed of my MP, John Lamont. Even his bio:
"MP for the Borders. Fighting against IndyRef2 : Out of hours, I’m training for my next marathon, somewhere. Triathlete. Ironman."
So you don’t actually live here, pay taxes or are eligible to vote?
Massive assumption, entirely inaccurate.
Massive assumption, entirely inaccurate.
Have you a Scottish tax code or not then?
And Sturgeons basic competence and treating us as adults is a big positive factor
My dad was a hard line unionist – to the point of campaigning for NO last time and he is full of praise for her and thinking of voting SNP and YES next time
This is what I dont understand, independence is wider than just one person.
If she got hit by a bus tomorrow would that mean your dad would be back in favour of the union? I think a lot of people are getting suckered into Sturgeon (to be fair she's less of a D than Bojo).
Definitely sick of the ‘neverendum’ now and feel the government should just get on with the day job.
I see this quite a lot from unionists. What exactly do you mean and where is your evidence. As far as I’ve seen all the talk of independence comes from when she is asked questions about it not a constant stream of chat coming from the SNP.
Massive assumption, entirely inaccurate.
Absentee home-owner then, about as popular as a Celtic fan down the Orange Lodge 😳
@nobeerinthefridge it was @lotto who has obviously declined to show his working.
If she got hit by a bus tomorrow would that mean your dad would be back in favour of the union?
sorry I was not very clear. Sturgeon is one factor among many - Brexit - another tory government in Westminster, the collapse of the lib dems, Tory incompetence
Lotto - simple question - do you pay tax in Scotland apart from council tax?
@kennyp - I'm not sure what you're getting at. If the SNP have a referendum in their manifesto and are elected to power, don't they have a moral obligation to deliver that? It's not like anyone voting for them can have forgotten or not know that is (supposed to be) their main reason for existence. Given there is another party with very similar policies but no desire for independence, it's not like the electorate have a limited choice in the way that exists in England.
For those who can keep a sense of humour
Actually this is funnier
I see this quite a lot from unionists. What exactly do you mean and where is your evidence. As far as I’ve seen all the talk of independence comes from when she is asked questions about it not a constant stream of chat coming from the SNP.
@squirrelking Apologies for 'declining to show my workings' earlier. It is the weekend and I enjoy riding my bike, great weather for it today. Low level was nice hardpack and the hills above covered in snow.
It is hard to argue against the point that for everyone in the UK the generosity of the British Treasury has been unbounding recently. With the furlough scheme for employees, business help for the owners, support has been in the top percentile in Europe, if not one of the most supportive schemes in the world. If the Union ceased, no one country could offer this level of support. The UK has demonstrated it has deep pockets in times of crisis and is willing to do the right thing to protect her inhabitants, other events in history highlight this too. You may not agree with the way in which this help has been dispensed, but not everyone can be pleased and it easy to snipe from the sidelines. Everything being done recently is fair and with the best of intentions.
What exactly do you mean and where is your evidence.
The main rhetoric I hear from the SNP is that a vote for them is a vote for a mandate for another referendum. Hence a large part of the reported news is about how the will of the Scottish people is being denied. It might be my news sources, but the drum beat for another referendum is beaten pretty loudly from where I stand.
@tjagain. Simple answer. Yes, other taxes are paid.
I’m not sure what you’re getting at. If the SNP have a referendum in their manifesto and are elected to power, don’t they have a moral obligation to deliver that?
I would have thought they would have a "moral obligation" to have a plan for if they win, you know so you know what you are voting for rather than against. Small things like constitution, currency, borders, defence, foreign aid, taxation, transition plan etc. Otherwise it looks and feels just like Brexit, an anti vote and then make it up later.
the generosity of the British Treasury has been unbounding recently
Tugs forelock, ah yes guv'nor sorry for imposing on you the taxes we pay and you being so kind as letting have some back....
Perhaps if this UK Government spent less time working out ways of how to stuff our taxes into the hands of their mates and donors and more time investing in stuff like critical national infrastructure and the NHS, perhaps the UK death toll wouldn't be the worst in Europe?
Perhaps if this UK Government spent less time working out ways of how to stuff our taxes into the hands of their mates and donors and more time investing in stuff like critical national infrastructure and the NHS.
I hear anecdotal observations like this, but the government as a whole, to my knowledge have never been caught red handed at this sort of behaviour. Nicola Sturgeon on the other hand looks like heading towards a breach of ministerial code.
Nicola Sturgeon on the other hand looks like heading towards a breach of ministerial code.
Just do a Priti Patel on it (a la Boris) and it will all magically disappear...
Breaches (and redhands) are for the little people.
I hear anecdotal observations like this, but the government as a whole, to my knowledge have never been caught red handed at this sort of behaviour
You what? they have been shovelling billions in to their mates hands Ashcroft - you know the ex party chair and large donor has just been givben a 350 million contract to delivervaccines. Harding - no previous experience given billions to set up a test and trace system that ignored local expertise. A tory mp set up a company from scratch to supply PPE that cost 150 million and nothing of any use ever arrived.
If the Union ceased, no one country could offer this level of support.
Utter nonsense. an independent Scotland would have been able to raise money in exactly the same way. The scottish government wanted to shut down earlier in Scotland but could not because the limited powers they have meant they could not furlough people
@tjagain. Simple answer. Yes, other taxes are paid.
A classic Johnson non answer
The question was do you pay income tax in Scotland - yes or no
It might just be me and I may well be wrong but doesn't lotto have a certain wiff of THM about him? Just sayin'...
The question was do you pay income tax in Scotland – yes or no
People who don't pay income tax in Scotland get a vote there, the qualifying criteria aren't just based on this
And as someone who won't answer any questions on how their "virtually instant" EU membership theory works demanding answers is a bit cheeky
The question was do you pay income tax in Scotland – yes or no
No, your question was
– simple question – do you pay tax in Scotland apart from council tax?
Ok Ok - you knew what I meant! what other taxes do you pay in scotland apart from council tax?
BIg and daft - bore off. we are tired of your trolling and provocation
I am more than happy to debate with those who will engage. those who want to provoke and be snidey are a waste of time. this is the reformed TJ remember? his less stroppy brother
Utter nonsense. an independent Scotland would have been able to raise money in exactly the same way.
Their ability would depend on the currency they use, deficit, etc etc
So not the same a the current UK government
I am more than happy to debate with those who will engage. those who want to provoke and be snidey are a waste of time.
All I asked were some simple questions and pointed out the similarity to the Brexit discussion
You just keep reinforcing that similarity
Small things like constitution, currency, borders, defence, foreign aid, taxation, transition plan etc. Otherwise it looks and feels just like Brexit, an anti vote and then make it up later.
As an idle onlooker from a long way off those things seem obvious.
Currency: any country aspirign to EU membership has to commit to joining the Euro zone. The mecahanism for doing that is well defined. So, Scottish pound managed by the bank of Scotland with a view to Euro accession. On independence day Scotland would simply go on using sterling without London's permission before transitioning to a floated Scottish pound and then Euro allignment
Borders: Join Shengen and become a defacto border state with a third country, England. Hard border.
Defence: cooperate with Europe.
Foreign aid: does Scotland need any?
Taxation: social democratic policy of the SNP would suggest taxing those with the ability to pay to provide the services enjoyed by all.
Transition plan: who needs a transition? Just a declaration of indendence should do, as for a constitution, just copy paste the French fifth republic.
As for resistance from the EU to Scotland joining, Google it, there isn't any. Pundits reckon it's possible within five years of independence, that seems realistic.
The question was do you pay income tax in Scotland – yes or no
– simple question – do you pay tax in Scotland apart from council tax?
what other taxes do you pay in scotland apart from council tax?
No I don't know what you mean. I only answered what you asked.
If I may, why does where my taxes are paid interest you? It is acceptable practice to be in a situation every year where you cannot identify anywhere as your home and taxation is based on these circumstances.
No I don’t know what you mean. I only answered what you asked.
Which is why I asked whether you had a Scottish tax code, and you ignored me.
So it seems you pay tax in England/Wales but live in Scotland - correct?
Lotto - its interesting to know where the people who add to this debate live
You were and still are being very evasive but perhaps I and others prodded too hard. If so forgive me / us
Edukator - I am not sure about the french constitution and indeed some things onthat need to be sorted. One thing is clear tho that the scottish government and legal system owes it allegiance to the people of scotland. Is that so of France? Not to the crown, not to the constitution but to the people
So it seems you pay tax in England/Wales but live in Scotland – correct?
Incorrect and I apologize that you felt ignored. I've had a busy day and only chimed in occasionally and briefly read the latest posts, I missed your question on Scottish tax code. I'll try and be more observant in future.
Regards tax codes, it is not something I am comfortable discussing on a public forum. Be best assured I have nothing to hide, I just don't feel it an appropriate place for discussing.
Fair enough lotto - see my post above
Lotto, you aren’t Donald Trump are you?
I mean fair enough if you are, I’m just kind of asking, ‘cos you kind of have his line of argument, particular around taxes 😜.
It might just be me and I may well be wrong but doesn’t lotto have a certain wiff of THM about him? Just sayin’…
Yup, Nigel, is that you?
Foreign aid: does Scotland need any?
No but are you not committing to 0.7% GDP aid to foreign countries? If not that's a very global outlook
As for resistance from the EU to Scotland joining, Google it, there isn’t any. Pundits reckon it’s possible within five years of independence, that seems realistic.
Does that qualify as "virtually instant"?
And why isn't all that published as the SNP ahead of going for a referendum, or is "busking" the policy?
How soon after independence would the first iS general election? What's the parliamentary term? Or is it a one party state? Why is nothing proposed prior to calling for indyref2?
who needs a transition
Scotland would certainly need a transition - to undo stuff thats UK wide and solve issues like ownership of assets
Lotto – its interesting to know where the people who add to this debate live
Is that so an Englishman can close the debate down?
but doesn’t lotto have a certain wiff of THM about him? Just sayin’…
Not to me. He has been polite and reasonable
Big and daft on the other hand................
@ B and D,
You've raised some good points on this thread over the piece but that last post you made kinda sums up where you've been going recently.
I'm sorry to say it but you appear to want to troll more than discuss these days. You've managed to move yourself into checkew's sphere, which is a pity!
B&D is a bit painful but is raising real issues. Ones that we do need to address if we are avoid making the same style of mistakes as the brexiteers.
Lotto is just sealioning.
B&D is a bit painful but is raising real issues. Ones that we do need to address if we are avoid making the same style of mistakes as the brexiteers.
agreed, indy is leagues ahead of brexit in terms of a plan, but if its going to be done, for the good of scotland it needs to be done properly & those questions deserve answers
B&D is kind of missing the point tho , when it comes to refs , brexit has shown its all about heart, not head
