By the way....seeing as cameron is getting such a shoeing from all and sundry, I think a little balance is called for. Him and his mate George have between them dragged us out of the mire left by Brown and his boys and put us firmly on a path of recovery. That despite the two Ed's continually dismissing the methods involved and saying it would never work. Apart from the fact that he's a toff and made difficult decisions others wouldn't, I don't see what the problem is.
Could anyone be a popular PM in Scotland?
By the way....seeing as cameron is getting such a shoeing from all and sundry, I think a little balance is called for. Him and his mate George have between them dragged us out of the mire left by Brown and his boys and put us firmly on a path of recovery. That despite the two Ed's continually dismissing the methods involved and saying it would never work. Apart from the fact that he's a toff and made difficult decisions others wouldn't, I don't see what the problem is.
Bloody hell. I'm putting the kettle on and breaking out the hobnobs. You won't get away with sense like that on here.
If Cameron had really been that sucessful it would be obvious to everyone; he'd be the most popular PM in history; the sun would shine out of his arse crack and we wouldn't be in this situation. The fact we are says all that needs to be said.
I'm not so sure. Doing what's necessary (if that's the case) isn't always what's popular.
.....made difficult decisions others wouldn't, I don't see what the problem is.
WTFFFF!!!!!!. [u][b]The 'Bedroom Tax'[/b][/u]!!!!!!
Doing what's necessary (if that's the case) isn't always what's popular
If, IF?
I give up.
You don't need to give up, just realise that lots of people think public spending needed to be cut as well as lots of people thinking it didn't.
I'm not saying I didn't think it needed cutting, but the 'Spare Room Subsidy'? Come on?
No wonder, if that's the level of strategic thinking and financial management our leaders are at, that if a group of people are given the chance to try something else, they take that chance!!
rene59 - Member
We are not emigrating nor are we upping anchor and sailing further into the Atlantic. This is a referendum to decide whether or not we leave a political union. Regardless of the outcome of the vote we will still be in the same place, you will still be free to visit, the internet will work cross border, transport links will be maintained and telecommunications will still be possible. History is history, what's been done will not change.If we came down in numbers before next general election and asked you to vote a certain way would you do it?
Oh that it were that simple, and so wrong that it is being sold to them like that.
It will be a bloody mess, the Tax issues, just the PAYE alone will be a nightmare to administer, never mind the VAT and Pensions and I seriously believe it will be worse for Scotland, that's even if they fudge the currency, which they can't really, they have no "Bank of Scotland" well not one that anyone will have any confidence in for a long while.
That mess will have repercussions for us, what with debt swaps and God knows what the bastard banks get up to, to separate, what bloody Goldman Sachs did for Greece will be nothing compared to the dodgy deals that will be going on to make it happen.
Honestly I don't think anyone has really gone into the serious ramifications of just what separating the two of us will do and cost and don't think lots of money will get made by the city bastards doing it. Will Scotland get its own stock exchange? It'll need it.
Rockape63 - MemberHim and his mate George have between them dragged us out of the mire left by Brown and his boys and put us firmly on a path of recovery.
Or, damaged the recovery by cutting public spending in a recession, depending on who you believe (and fiddled the figures by including the sale of Royal Mail)
Can anyone play the flute? maybe take a big base drum with us?
Ooh, I know that one, I've been to Glasgow on a Saturday morning.... 😉
Put me down as nope.Just because a bunch of privileged political types are begging them to stay,doesn't mean the rest of us are..
By the way....seeing as cameron is getting such a shoeing from all and sundry, I think a little balance is called for. Him and his mate George have between them dragged us out of the mire left by Brown and his boys and put us firmly on a path of recovery. That despite the two Ed's continually dismissing the methods involved and saying it would never work. Apart from the fact that he's a toff and made difficult decisions others wouldn't, I don't see what the problem is.
Yeah, without austerity who knows where we'd be? We could have record numbers of people in work reduced to using foodbanks to feed their families, wages falling in real terms as inflation outstrips wages, a growing deficit and a country so hacked off that they might be packing their bags and leaving.
Put me down as nope.Just because a bunch of privileged political types are begging them to stay,doesn't mean the rest of us are..
yep.
By the way....seeing as cameron is getting such a shoeing from all and sundry, I think a little balance is called for. Him and his mate George have between them dragged us out of the mire left by Brown and his boys and put us firmly on a path of recovery. That despite the two Ed's continually dismissing the methods involved and saying it would never work. Apart from the fact that he's a toff and made difficult decisions others wouldn't, I don't see what the problem is.
The mess was caused by the banking sector and no t by the government - you may have noticed that many countries were affected by a global downturn that started in the sub prime markets of the USA. To blame Labour for this [ or any politician anywhere]is an act of incomprehensible stupidity.
As for Dave and his mate they have managed to miss all of their targets for the economy so I am not sure what you are calling a success here, could you explain?
IMHO history shows that boom follows bust and even those incompetents could not break that cycle. They have cured the recession as much as Brown ended boom and bust.
A week ago possibly but not now, the debate had got totally lost in the mire. It's crap parent time bending over to give the spoilt brat the last vomit-inducing sweet, PS4 and iPhone 6. Flying the saltire above every building, distort the democratic structure and balance of the rUK etc in a last desperate scramble. Starting to get pathetic now.
Lay the story out clearly and let folk decide now. They have been warned and common sense dismissed as bullying etc. So f*** it! Buy your volatility options, go long Stan Char, short RBS, (but look to buy RBS CDS on the result) and use the proceeds to buy a cheaper house at a later date. At least have some fun in all this nonsense.
Think i'll buy my holiday euro's before the 18th so those foreign types up north don't make my holiday more expensive!
Hora regardless of how the vote goes our neighbours will always be welcome. There is some serious grumping going on in here anyone would think it wasn't our right to decide the future of the land we live in.
I'm English Scottish and British depending on who you ask but an accident of birth has no place in my decision to vote yes it has everything to do with a system that doesn't work the only thing that makes it a scottish referendum for me is a line north of which there is different law, different healthcare and different education and different money. If I was living in England I'd be voting to drop an unelected house of parliament and London if I had the chance.
I was thinking about this yesterday.
Wonder what effect a rUK "split the union/keep the union" poll would have.
A lot of these threads highlight the issues as felt by both sides but the truth is the 18th is about a political split. The popularity of a yes is fuelled by the banking issue (seen to be the city's fault). The austerity measures (no. 10) and what appears to be massive spending in the south east, multi billion £ projects to get city types to their desk 10 minutes earlier. We're told how the housing market has crashed and risen, when there has been no real change here. We're told there may well be another crash soon but it's all driven by a London bubble.
The fact that the three stooges are heading up today shows nothing. The fact that they have put new "offers" on the table shows that Dave's yes/no demand was deeply flawed.
I blame Mrs Doubtfire!
Watching an interview with one of Salmon's party on the Beeb this morning and the interviewer asked her all the right questions around how can you keep the pound etc and her answers were so skillful. She really did avoid answering the question point-blank. Her best/clearest answer was 'well Germany and France live in harmony with the euro as their common currency so why can't England and Scotland with the pound?
At this point the interviewer should have jumped on this but she turned the question again to discuss something else.
Salmon is the same- almost snake oil/smooth-tongued. Really really good at being positive, upbeat and avoiding trouble questions.
The no campaign though- fielding people from a failed economy and lacking in any sort of eloquence.
during the post-mortem, it'll be too late.
A lot of these threads highlight the issues as felt by both sides but the truth is the 18th is about a political split.
I agree however the split is this
Better - economically - together
Fairer alone [ democratic, not as Tory, protect the NHS, no fees etc]
It shows that the population is divided on what the govts central role is in society. Make it nicer or make it richer.
It also seems that as the debate has gone on more people would rather have a fairer society than a slightly wealthier one, in Scotland anyway.
It is why no just repeat economic stuff [ equally aspirational and wish washy IMHO] and the Yes repeat aspirational stuff about a fairer world and th eland of milk and honey [ equally aspirational but what every single politician does at an election]
[i][i][i]Watching an interview with one of Salmon's party on the Beeb this morning and the interviewer asked her all the right questions around how can you keep the pound etc and her answers were so skillful. She really did avoid answering the question point-blank. Her best/clearest answer was 'well Germany and France live in harmony with the euro as their common currency so why can't England and Scotland with the pound?
[i][/i]
At this point the interviewer should have jumped on this but she turned the question again to discuss something else.
Salmon is the same- almost snake oil/smooth-tongued. Really really good at being positive, upbeat and avoiding trouble questions.
The no campaign though- fielding people from a failed economy and lacking in any sort of eloquence.[/i][/i]
during the post-mortem, it'll be too late.[/i]
Yes agreed! There is a big likelyhood that in the years following a yes vote, scores of Scots will be saying 'I didn't sign up to this', meanwhile those south of the border, (who have had to endure the years of turmoil, the split will obviously cause), will be saying 'tough sh1t, get on wiv it!
By the way....seeing as cameron is getting such a shoeing from all and sundry, I think a little balance is called for. Him and his mate George have between them dragged us out of the mire left by Brown and his boys and put us firmly on a path of recovery. That despite the two Ed's continually dismissing the methods involved and saying it would never work. Apart from the fact that he's a toff and made difficult decisions others wouldn't, I don't see what the problem is.
So when there's a worldwide financial meltdown it's all Gordon Brown's fault, and when the economy eventually recovers much slower than predicted and only really in the south east it's all thanks to wonderful Tory policy? Will the next bust still be Gordon Brown's fault?
😆
By the way....seeing as cameron is getting such a shoeing from all and sundry, I think a little balance is called for. Him and his mate George have between them dragged us out of the mire left by Brown and his boys and put us firmly on a path of recovery.
Good to see the Tory Party PR machine has an STW account! We're obviously an important demographic.
Bit late for all this isnt it? I mean, if London really cared about Scotland, what's their excuse for the last, oh, 30 years or so (don't remember any further back than that). All this action (well, promises of action) in the last day or two smacks of desperation...if I had a vote it would push me towards a yes.
I mean, if London really cared about Scotland, what's their excuse for the last, oh, 30 years or so
Is this the fantasy land where Scotland hasn't had any investment for decades and wasn't given devolution?
To be fair, I missed devolution (already left by then). But if more devolution is such a great idea now, why were they not allowed to vote on it?
Personally, I think some level of devolved govt is probably the best solution, but whether the current arrangement is ideal is another matter. Even an "independent" scotland will inevitably be heavily tied to the rest of the UK, and without its own currency it would hardly be an independent country anyway. I'm sort of relieved I don't have a vote.
A good friend of mine was banging on about the rich elite in Westminister making decisions on behalf of Scots and most of the medical research spend being spend in the south.
She literally wont hear anything else. Wont listen. Even though the 'rich elite' makes the same decision from London on us in the north. ITS WHERE THE ****ING PARLIAMENT IS FFS. 'The rich elite'. What? Should we entrust the local village idiot* who can't balance a credit card* to make decisions then?
*Oh hang on that was Gordon Brown.
Have you gottn on yer bike Hora, you know lust like Tebbit did back in the day..?
Tell us how long it takes and what bike you decide to ride, onroad or offroad route? 😉
A good friend of mine was banging on about the rich elite in Westminister making decisions on behalf of Scots
it's a good thing there isn't a public school/banking/journalism/consultancy/legal elite in Scotland.
Is this the fantasy land where Scotland hasn't had any investment for decades and wasn't given devolution?
Not with any Tory help.
"Despite being the only major party now opposing constitutional reform and despite their reduced popularity and strength in Scotland, Conservative electoral victories in 1983, 1987 and 1992 ensured that no further legislative progress was made until the election of Labour under Tony Blair in 1997 led to a second devolution referendum.
Again the Conservatives opposed devolution in the 1997 debate (although Heath personally supported Labour's proposals[4]), but this time their opposition was unsuccessful, and the Scottish Parliament was created by the Scotland Act 1998. Subsequent to its creation, the Conservative Party has indicated its acceptance of Scottish devolution as an irreversible political fact.[5]"
The Edinburgh "mafia" is as well established and more exclusive that any Westminster version. Holyrood is a side show. The real decisions take place in Elie, Muirfield, the clubs in E'burgh and in season on the stalking slopes and fishing banks.
Some things will never change. They are merely a distraction.
This isn't about Scotland. It's about London.
If it goes in favour of yes, the clamour from Wales and the English regions will become ever greater. And London - the city with streets paved with gold - will continue on it's own merry way.
Jesus wept. A SNP on the beeb just now said forget the scaremongers and the governments strongarming of supermarket leaders. The real negotiations will start on the 19th.
No. You ****ing wont. You vote yes and your gone. Ffs.