[Closed] SAR Helicopters - New walk in-walk out service for Mountain Rescue

I think that is a disgrace.

Jam already said it, a disgrace. So was the original decision to sell-out the 'service' to Bristow. Surely we could have spent the money with MoD and Westland on some shiny new Merlins painted yellow and grey/ orange... And kept the capability that the military offered.

I was in Search and rescue in Calderdale a few years go and before that in Scotland  in the 90's, if I remember in pre Bristos days it was at the pilots discretion - and they'd take ground conditions into consideration. If they had another shout elsewhere they'd prioritise that. I certainly remember being left with a carry from the top of Carnethy in the Pentlands after the RAF sea king had better things to do - wasn't difficult though.

It's not surprising. This is the time of "**** you". I am sure that someone, somewhere, considers people who give up their time to help people in need as Enemies of the People and traitors or something.

The new service is not very helpful with joint training with local teams - hands on training days with the helicopter seem to be a thing of the past. We used to get a visit once a year with a whole day (depending on call outs) spent on team familiarisation. Probably considered a waste of money.

Unfunkingbelievable. 🤬

Disgusting.

Let's just keep spending money on warships and trident subs instead.   .

Unfunkingsurprising, too. Give an expensive job to a private company and money becomes the deciding factor. Issue needs addressing at the contract level; good will cannot be relied upon when profits are at stake. Disgraceful state of affairs.

The issue here is the suggestion that provision was so much better under RAF. The aircraft were antiquated with appalling facilities for casualty care, terrible comms and frequently grounded due to mechanicals.

So now they have shiny aircraft that they won't use rather than shonky aircraft that they can't? How is that better?

It's shit, but it's not really a surprise given our governments long and storied history of running down services and flogging the remains to their mates to turn a profit out of.

The best solution would have been to keep it in the military and fund it properly...

The teams raising this complaint all left Scottish Mountain Rescue a couple of years ago which means they do not benefit from a shared  representative voice. Their view is not necessarily shared by the wider MR community. This is all quite political.

The RAF worked to similar deployment rules as Bristows. There is not as big a difference as these teams want you to believe .

"This is all quite political."

I started to write a reply quite a few times but it's just not f-in worth it.

The RAF worked to similar deployment rules as Bristows. There is not as big a difference as these teams want you to believe .

Yup.

Then there is where the priority lies, recoveting a body or being available for a living casualty that is critically injured.

It's just the inevitable result of contracting out the service. If you want a SAR contractor to recover bodies it has to be written into the contract and it obviously hasn't been. The Services had a bit of latitude in that they would often be able to ascribe certain non-operational tasks to training but Bristows et al won't do that.

 Then there is where the priority lies, recoveting a body or being available for a living casualty that is critically injured.

It's not like that call hasn't been made in the past when circumstances arise. There's no way we should be forcing MRTs to take unnecessary risks when flight time is available.

Which is the bigger risk? I'd have thought getting a team and a helicopter would be riskier than the team alone.

Not sure if practical but if they are being made to walk out after hours in the freezing cold, perhaps stuck to a cliff face then the chopper could perhaps take out the heavy climbing gear with the casualty. Let the rescuer's get out faster and less burdened . Obviously has negative implications of getting to another shout etc . Terrible if they are miles from safety themselves. Hope we never see an incident of a rescue team going out after another rescue team because of bureaucracy and penny saving.

Tell me about why this is political?

I get the helicopter needing to be available for other rescues, particularly living Vs dead. I don't get that these are SAR, rarely at road accidents etc. They could pick up and fly out team in relatively quick time frame.

Surely we are going to see as busy weekend or incident that is going to lead to a volunteer MRT injury or worse, or a team walking out and so delayed to shout no.2...?

The political aspect of this is between iSMR and SMR, within the MR community and not between MR and other actors. That said, the response from DfT could be argued to escalate this into a wider political issue relatively quickly...

It'd be interesting to see the statistics for the amount of time the helicopter pilot / winchman spend working in arduous conditions for what pay, versus the amount of time the volunteers spend doing it for nothing.

Suspect the average callout would look like 2 hours for the helicopter crew @ a fair wage, and 7 or 8 hours for each volunteer @ no cost.

Way to just chin off the contribution these people make putting themselves in harms way.

It’s not like that call hasn’t been made in the past when circumstances arise. There’s no way we should be forcing MRTs to take unnecessary risks when flight time is available.

That does not mean it should still continue. Yes of course there may be times its the safer and better option but If it's not always the case then MR can be used.

I don’t get that these are SAR, rarely at road accidents etc. They could pick up and fly out team in relatively quick time frame.

They're rarely at them as they're are other resources that can deal with them.