[Closed] Santa

You are kidding right?

Please tell me you are?

Not really shes very switched on and i feel like were trying to convice her for the sake of it some times

Show her the car he drives when he's not on duty?

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let them come to their own conclusion.

We always just said 'Some people believe he's true, some don't'. Seemed to work for our kids, they reached their own conclusion without too much trauma.

We've taken the same approach to God tbh.

Mine are 6, 4 and 2.
It's going to be a sad day when any of them stop believing.
I love their innocence and excitement with the whole thing.

I just hope no one ruins it for them.

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My sons 9, we know he knows, he knows we know he knows.

We all still pretend to believe though. much more fun 🙂

WOAH WOAH WOAH.

when you santa is a load of old rubbish you're suggesting he's not bringing the quality of presents as he did when you were a younger man yeah?

well that's kinda harsh, his elves can't make iPads and stuff can they, apple wont let them i've been told.

if you're suggesting he's not real then i suggest you get yourself down the doctors for a check-up or call your local community mental health team and demand an assessment as you're clearly wrong.

all the time that some kid, somewhere, belives that he exists, then that is enough reason for me.

Christmas is for kids, don't ruin it for them.

I was thinking only a couple of hours ago about the tooth fairy, and whether it was healthy for parents, a child's most trusted of people, to be systematically lying to their kids.

Not sure as I know the answer, TBH. From a kid's perspective, hey, free money, I suppose. Does a belief in something 'magical' justify those lies? I think as a kid I wouldn't have given a stuff one way or the other so long as I got my Big Trak.

[i]Does a belief in something 'magical' justify those lies?[/i]

Any vicars on the forum?

Does a belief in something 'magical' justify those lies?

Is it always necessary, or right, to tell the truth?

You need to watch Miracle on 34th Street . I believe!

to be systematically lying to their kids

[i]And 'lying' about them is completely different to anything to do with religion. [/i]

how?

no lasting effects of 'lying' about santa/tooth fairy etc.

Undermines trust, no? (I'm not a parent, so I've no idea)

how?

They grow out of believing in Santa, and I don't think anyone's ever been killed for not believing in the tooth fairy?

I was teaching a class of yr 7's about aliens and asked them to find evidence for or against them existing.

The results were startling as they came out overwhelmingly in favour of them existing. Some of them even suggested that they didn't need to look on the internet because they know they exist!

you can't beat that logic!

good luck whatever you decide - she probably won't believe you....for now

I believe aliens exist and I reached that conclusion without the internet.

It's the monster under the bed that I'm agnostic about.

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Every single one of us at some point in our lives believed in Father Christmas (don't know who this Santa fellow is) and it's fair to say that we are all finely rounded, balanced individuals so it's done no harm...... 😯

I believe that if it was such a bad thing to lie to our children about a fat man in a red costume with a drinking problem and a penchant for the vertically challenged, then why do we continue to perpetuate said lie?

Tell her that if she stops believing she'll be getting a bitey dog and. Big Mac for Christmas.

Undermines trust, no?

Erm, no.

I never trusted my folks any less when I found out that Santa, or the tooth fairy...or for that matter, big stuff like God and mortal sin and venal sin and confession and religion-based shit that scared the **** out of me as a kid.

I'm all for letting kids have imaginations, being creative...and if that means sometimes making stuff up...fairy tales, pretending inanimate objects actually have lives and personalities, that dogs go to Devon when they die and lots of other stuff.

Jesus, they'll have seventy odd years of the brutal realities and miseries of human existence so let their childhoods be years of innocent fun and bullshit.

It's probably a good thing that I never reproduced.

In our house Santa liked 2 cans of best bitter as a refreshment after he had dropped off the presents.

My suspicions grew when I noticed that my Dad also liked best bitter.

OP its not about what you like, its about allowing a child to believe something magical happens once a year. The time to let it go is when she decides its rubbish, and I'm sure she'll tell you. Think of it this way until she was 2, she probably had no concept of Father Christmas and therefore didn't believe, by three she probably did and now after a year you want ti take that away.

Your other option I suppose is to tell her its a Roman, pre-christian festival called Satrunalia during which the populace would feast and exchange presents, and the slave took on the role of master for a day., overlaying a christian festival and that the date was decided at the conference of Nicosia in 601 AD by the Emperor Constantine. Might not be such a fun thought for a 4 y/o

I'm off to cry in a corner at the thought of somebody telling a four year old Father Christmas is Bollox 😥

A *Spoilers* warning would have been nice.

Thanks a lot O.P 🙄

Santa is real if you want him to be. I strongly suspect that your four year old daughter really, really wants him to be. So why do you want to stop her?

All that joy that Santa brings, once it's gone it's gone for good and you never get it back.

On a practical note, you won't be the most popular dad down the nursery / primary school if and when your daughter tells all her friends the sad news.

There's a difference between a fun game of make believe and deceit, I think.

When I was a kid it was a bit of fun, I can only ever remember being intensely skeptical about Santa from my earliest memories, and I was pretty convinced that it was all pretend by the time I was 4 or 5. I didn't mind though, I got two presents after all 🙂

I think if you try too hard to make them believe in it, you're just being mean. Kids can know it's a game and still enjoy it imo.

LOL @ Bregante

[u][b]SANTA'S NOT REAL?![/b][/u]

Whaddya Mean!?!? Nooooooooooo........Say it isn't so...............

[i]Sits down to examine whats real and what isn't anymore as whole world crumbles....![/i]

OP - get a grip.

Our daughter is 12 and whilst she admits that she said she believed last year for mums benefit, even if we ask her now if she still believes a little bit, we get a little coy nod.

We have witnessed innocence disappearing at an alarming rate over the last year - believe me, when your daughter is 12, you'll be wanting to cling onto every little bit.

Pah....next thing you'll be telling me is that all those chaps that used to call round to see my mum weren't really my uncles! Must admit though that we haven't seen them for a few years now.....

If your children still get excited at the thought or pretence of Santa then what's the harm of going along with it, although there will be a few naysayers on here that say otherwise.

Santa will still be coming to this house with kids aged 10 and 7!
Santa was a little frustrated last yr after attempting to construct a trampoline from 11 pm onwards! Santa unbelievably said some swear words at mrs claus during construction! He got there tho and everyone was happy!

My parents told my brother at the age of 6 that Santa isn't real and that really it's Dad bringing the presents... the first thing he did was to ask how Dad manages to get round the whole world in one night.
The second thing he did was to inform the rest of us (ages 3 and 4) that there's no Santa.

None of us were bothered, and it was fun having the whole family in on the secret and pretending to believe. We still get presents from 'Santa' now.

Its Father Christmas anyway, you miserable old sod.

Our eldest is 13 and she still believes.

My wife and I had thought that she didn't, but I was talking about Father Christmas with here, not sure exactly what, but she must have interpreted what I said as he was not true and her face dropped a mile and I quickly had to do some back pedaling!

I've got friends with two grown up kids - prob 18 and 20 now. When they were younger, every Christmas Eve, dad would go out 'to deliver some cards', quickly slip into the Santa costume and them the kids would catch a glimpse of him on the garage roof on his way to the chimney.

They had a 3rd child about 4 years ago. When Christmas came round, Dad mentioned he'd need to get the Santa outfit out of the loft again. The kids shared a conspiratorial wink with their parents, and then Adam, the son, said he'd go and get it because dad's too old to be climbing on roofs now. Now every Christmas eve Adam goes out 'to deliver some cards' and the whole family including 4 year old Leah catch a glimpse of santa on his way up to the roof.

And you know what - All four of them share in Leah's magic all over again.

Don't take that enjoyment away.

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We are as parents Santa, don't let kids lose the belief, because of your own grown up attitude

Well thanks for that! I Guess im just gonna let her belive what she likes but when she questions that these things arnt real im not going to tell her shes wrong surely thats not right? I think you have to tell them when there right there right otherwise arnt we just confusing them

[i]when she questions that these things arnt real im not going to tell her shes wrong surely thats not right?[/i]

Just say 'He's real if you believe in him' or something. You don't have to lie.

You don't have to shatter her dreams either - plenty of time for that later in life.

* Take 1 piece of cardboard
* Cut out a Wellington boot 'footprint' pattern
* Once Little 'uns are asleep on Christmas Eve, place on carpet and sprinkle talc over so a 'snow footprint' is left.
* Turn stencil over and repeat for other foot
* Repeat to create a trail from your fireplace to their bedroom
* Wake up to a wide eyed child on Christmas morning!

You could use the questioning process as a way of starting a discussion on the nature, and indeed existence of "truth". Never to young to introduce your kids to good 'ole philosophical debate!

Daughter - Daddy, does Father Christmas exist? Is he really flying all over the world on Christmas Eve delivering presents?

Daddy - Well, that's an interesting couple of questions, first off just because something doesn't fit in with our generally held understanding of how the world works, it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. For example, if Santa was a quantum particle then my understanding of quantum physics (and I hasten to add it's pretty limited!) means that there is the possibility he could be in all places globally over the course of one night! So, if we assume that out knowledge base is sufficiently limited then even asking the question seems a bit absurd.

Daughter - Whats a quantum?

Peyote, surely the daughter's last question is 'Can I have a Pony?'

Yeah good point. Although, if she's anything like the way I predict mine will turn out then she'll have Googled the answer to "The Santa question" a long time ago, copied her Fathers credit card details down and bid on a nice thoroughbred on Equiestrian-Ebay a long time previously!

OP - get a grip.

Our daughter is 12 and whilst she admits that she said she believed last year for mums benefit, even if we ask her now if she still believes a little bit, we get a little coy nod.

We have witnessed innocence disappearing at an alarming rate over the last year - believe me, when your daughter is 12, you'll be wanting to cling onto every little bit.

+1

The Tooth Fairy visited my nine-year-old lass last night...deep inside I'm sure she's sceptical, but she wants to believe, and I'm happy to let her for the time being.

I don't quite understand why telling youur kids that Santa is a massive lie is ruining Christmas for them?

I'm pretty sure kids must have enjoyed Christmas perfectly well before 'Santa' was invented.

I suspect it's parents who enjoy Santa more than the kids - children are far more aware than adults give thm credit for most of the time, they're probably just humouring their mad old parents by 'believing' in a fake fat bloke in red pyjamas.

😀

Well thanks for that! I Guess im just gonna let her belive what she likes but when she questions that these things arnt real im not going to tell her shes wrong surely thats not right? I think you have to tell them when there right there right otherwise arnt we just confusing them

You are completely over-thinking this.

It is for fun. You are not denying the Holocaust.

I have no doubt my 7yo is aware of the reality. He enjoys asking me awkward logistical questions about it - this is his way of playing with me while also quietly letting me know he's grown up enough to know. But he'd never come out and directly ask or state it. He knows which side his bread's buttered on.

So, let me see if I understand this correctly; lying to your kids is acceptable and 'fun' provided you can blame it on a fake bearded stranger who breaks into your house, or little winged creatures with a weird fetish for discarded human teeth?

And lying to young impressionable children is necessary to make Christmas a 'magical' time for them?

Just so I know what to do as my 18mo grows up.

😀

On of our friends' 7-year-olds twigged Santa wasn't real last week: "Mum, Santa can't be real, because he wasn't there when Baby Jesus was born."

On of our friends' 7-year-olds twigged Santa wasn't real last week: "Mum, Santa can't be real, because he wasn't there when Baby Jesus was born."

Also, you wouldn't need a 'Santa' person as Christmas didn't exist at that time ... unless Santa did exist, and this new-fangled 'Christmas' thing gave him a new career opportunity

unless Santa did exist, and this new-fangled 'Christmas' thing gave him a new career opportunity

He's very good at changing career is Santa. When he signed up to a sponsorship contract with Coca-cola his PR went into overdrive.

It's only a matter of time before Apple jump on board with the i-Sleigh...

So, let me see if I understand this correctly; lying to your kids is acceptable and 'fun' provided you can blame it on a fake bearded stranger who breaks into your house, or little winged creatures with a weird fetish for discarded human teeth?

Well, yes.

He doesn't break in, anyway. He comes down the chimney and nicks sherry.

Went through the same dilemma with my Sisters kids and now we’re going through it with MrsBouys nephews of 3+5.. from my experience seems to me that kids make their own mind up if Santa exists or not. .So far it does seem to be the youngest who is more sceptical than the eldest.
Of the all the kids at the Club, it seems they go through a very short span of believing Santa exists, then very quickly realise he doesn’t.
But I’m of the opinion that it’s good to have a fertile imagination and believe in stuff other than the material, so I’m probably more inclined to nurture the imagination.

My Mother told me that if you don't believe in Father Christmas, he doesn't visit you.

Last Christmas was my first year at home for a few years, but I still believe and I still get presents from him. My parents also get presents from him too. This works well for all of us.

We do "proper" gifts later on in the day. Everyone really enjoys Christmas this way, so we'll probably always do it this way.

Father Christmas isn't the same as Santa btw. The two ideas have become conflated but they are quite different.

Ah. So which one would you recommend me making lies up about for my kids?

How about the Christmas Goat?

Ah. So which one would you recommend me making lies up about for my kids?

Never mind that. How about the the favourite Chrimbo lies, where you tell your aged relations how much fun it is getting everyone together and how much you love their gifts?

Children need to know how to deliver tactical untruths.

Father Christmas isn't the same as Santa btw. The two ideas have become conflated but they are quite different.

That's just what he wants you to think! He has to change job occassionally to avoid arousing suspicion. Like MacCleod in "Highlander".

Edited - 'cos my Scottish speeling is almost as bad as the accents in said film.

Already having problems with our family christmas plans 🙁

wwaswas - Member
And 'lying' about them is completely different to anything to do with religion.

how?

Almost all of us believed in Santa at some point but as we grew up we realised he was just a make-believe character like the tooth fairy or Dracula or Easter bunnies as our parents would eventually admit it was all a make-believe game. But for many people, religious belief is something they take with them into adulthood and I simply think that is a decision only an individual should make.

Father Christmas isn't the same as Santa btw. The two ideas have become conflated but they are quite different.

Wikipedia says:

In the English-speaking world, the character called "Father Christmas" influenced the development in the United States of Santa Claus, and in the United Kingdom and elsewhere, most people now consider them to be interchangeable.

Santa Claus, also known as Saint Nicholas, Father Christmas and simply "Santa"

[i] But for many people, religious belief is something they take with them into adulthood and I simply think that is a decision only an individual should make. [/i]

So my 'he's real if you believe in him' approach works for santa and god?

I think I was supporting your view really - parents telling kids that God is 'real' is as bad as saying santa isn't. Children are able to make their own minds up about stuff at a young age. I do find the whole Fundamentalist Christian Right in the US and the associated 'beliefs' in some fairly wierd stuff very worrying.

Father Christmas isn't the same as Santa btw. [b]The two ideas have become conflated[/b] but they are quite different.

Yes, yes, this is all very well, but you are ALL missing the point, which is that The Italian Job, The Muppets Christmas Carol and National Lampoon's Christmas Vactation will be on the tellybox.

That's what really makes Christmas!

[i]conflated[/i]

Aggghhhh!

*runs away from thread screaming*

And as he's just an idea, they're now the same thing 🙂

So my 'he's real if you believe in him' approach works for santa and god?

I think I was supporting your view really - parents telling kids that God is 'real' is as bad as saying santa isn't. Children are able to make their own minds up about stuff at a young age. I do find the whole Fundamentalist Christian Right in the US and the associated 'beliefs' in some fairly wierd stuff very worrying.

Yep - I think we were.

conflated

Aggghhhh!

*runs away from thread screaming*

What's wrong with conflate? It's not a neologism.