[Closed] Running- stretches and shoes

I use inov-8 roclites and can highly recommend them

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Adidas swoop.

Are you funding the new shoes with the top cap money?

TKMAX often have trail/adventure racing shoes on discount

Roclites look a bit too big and chunky, but the swoops look perfect.

Adidas XCS are worth a look

http://www.startfitness.co.uk/product.asp?strParents=4070,4071&CAT_ID=4078&P_ID=38624

Have a look at the x-talon or f-lites then?

Just bought some NB all terrain running shoes from their outlet in Keswick - much cheapness. Similar to these;

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Lukey pop along to next generation gym in monifieth next to dobies on a bicycle ride - they have a cracking running shop in there with really knowledgable staff. Plenty different styles and brands and will sell you what suits not what is most expensive!

Dobies garden centre? Think I'm going past there this weekend. We've got a running shop across from work and we sell them all their bikes, though, so might be able to get something off them once I know the sort of thing I want.

They're just a bit tight and it's as if I've not stretched, even though I have. Are there any good stretches that I could try out, for my whole legs but especially the calves.

I avoid static stretching [i]before[/i] a run. And just do a proper warm-up.

Off-road running has also aggravated my achilles. You might also want to try running on flat and even surfaces to see if it alleviates your problem.

I know you'll know this, but it is worth checking with your local running shop about shoes. Not all shoes are built the same, and, for example, I find that many rub on my big toe. Buy online if you want, but check them out in the flesh first! Plus the shop should be able to recommend some you haven't thought of, too.

As for stretches, I find standing on the edge of a step will help with stretching the calf - before and after running. Do it slowly and carefully, as you don't want to damage the muscle, but it's a start. Afterwards, you can also use a rolly thing to really get into the knots in the calf and ease it out. Well worth doing IMO, as tight calves can lead to shinsplints and/ or achilles problems.

inov-8 x talons
[url] http://www.outdoorsmagic.com/news/article/mps/uan/5512 [/url]

What kind of terrain are you running on? If it's road running go for a road shoe, if it's trail running go for an trail/XC shoe, or if it's fell/hill running, go for a fell shoe.

I would class your NB's as trail shoes, whereas the swoops above are more fell/hill shoes and won't offer the support that trail or road shoes will.

[url= http://www.run4it.com/ ]Run4it[/url] are pretty good and have shops in Edinburgh and Glasgow.

[url= http://achillesheel.co.uk/ ]Achilles Heel[/url] are also good guys.

There's a place in Cupar as well, but I've never been in, just driven past.

I run straight out of the door and run half the time (with others) along gravel and flat muddy singletrack, but when I go out on my own I run along the coastal path or along the slippiest filthiest trails I can find to keep me interested and grip is massively important, but I run for about 5-10 minutes per run on the road so a bit of give would be nice. When I'm at home I go out on the moors with them.

I was looking at Walsh shoes too. They look pretty good value, but perhaps overkill?

I work opposite Kingdom Runner and will be popping in to see what they've got that suits. We sell Asics ones at work too, but they don't work for me.

Strangely, my calves hurt more when I run more on the flat and roads.

get someone to stretch you calf and hold it there while you try and contract it - do that for 30 seconds and see if that helps. stop if it hurts lots though.

I avoid static stretching before a run. And just do a proper warm-up.

Good advice, only stretch post run.

Crap advice.

Goan you could always go and read the evidence. Would you like some references?

get someone to stretch you calf and hold it there while you try and contract it - do that for 30 seconds and see if that helps. stop if it hurts lots though.

Bit lame having to enlist help isnt it, bit like err attention seeking really!

I think the girl I run with is creeped out by me enough without having to hold my calves. Which are excellent, by the way...

after several physios had there(expensive) go at my achillies goans advice above sorted mine out in about 45 seconds .....Ive had shit all year from this achillies. Wouldnt write it off just yet 😉

Go read the evidence on PNF stretching then come back an tell me it's lame.....

left calf thing could be the camber on the road?
dunno about you but i notice it in my ankle.

Go read the evidence on PNF stretching then come back an tell me it's lame.....

No thanks, however I didnt say it was lame. I agreed with the above poster who recommended post run stretching. You said it was "crap advice" a stupid thing to say given the significant evidence around that proves it increases the chance of injury rather than reduces it.
There is even evidence to indicate that stretching per se is harmful, PNF or not. Stretching cold muscles is potentially harmful and PNF stretching is little different to any other stretching that doesnt require an audience.
There are countless ways to provide resistance.
Why is "post run" stretching "crap advice"?

surfer what about static after you have had a lie in the bath?(with hot water in it aswell)

Blows a big sloppy kiss in the direction of surfer.

There is no real consensus on when to stretch - only if it works keep doing it and if it doesn't then you need to change it.

Explain how to do PNF properly without a second person or expensive equipment.

surfer what about static after you have had a lie in the bath?(with hot water in it aswell)

It depends what you are stretching. If its an achilles then I wouldnt stretch at all unless it was fully mobile, even if the muscles surrounding it are warm.
If you have an injury that needs stretching, like a calf then make sure it is mobile, even walking briskly etc then stretching, but very gently. If it is too injured to be "warmed" in this way it probably should be rested and even iced.

Surfer you do realise that you are talking pish don't you?

sketchy right psoas to be exact chap. i geuss static after a ride then.

Explain how to do PNF properly without a second person or expensive equipment.

The one you described above can be done with a step.

Surfer you do realise that you are talking pish don't you?

I have asked you why it was "crap advice" and you have refused to answer.

Now how am I "taking the piss"?

No it cant. You would end up lifting your body. You dont have a clue what pnf is do you?

I have explained why it is crap advice up there.

And as for where you start slevering about doing stuff in the bath thats just gibberish - the physio next to me says so.

Guys, it's not that important. Step away from the internet.

Why would lifting your body be a problem? That is what the calf does you know.

Thats 3 questions now.

And as for where you start slevering about doing stuff in the bath thats just gibberish - the physio next to me says so

I didnt mention the bath.

Erm - because the joint needs to stay still for this type of stretch to work.

The calf doesnt have a joint, ask your physio!

surfer what about static after you have had a lie in the bath?(with hot water in it aswell)
It depends what you are stretching. If its an achilles then I wouldnt stretch at all unless it was fully mobile, even if the muscles surrounding it are warm.
If you have an injury that needs stretching, like a calf then make sure it is mobile, even walking briskly etc then stretching, but very gently. If it is too injured to be "warmed" in this way it probably should be rested and even iced.

Calf has two joints - the knee and the ankle...

its me that like to strech in the bath and tell your physio that he/she is wrong cos it works for me. how do iknow? cos oddly its my body.

And I didnt mention the bath. You have sneakily nested both quotes. Bit cheap really.

Calf has two joints - the knee and the ankle..

Your talking crap now!

nonk - wtf you talking about? Stretching in the bath is good. I do it too.

There is no real consensus on when to stretch - only if it works keep doing it and if it doesn't then you need to change it.

PNF stretching has its origins in the 40s and 50s. I think our knowledge sports science and research has developed significantly. Gordon Pirie was one of the first runners to oppose pre-exercise stretching and link it to injury in top-flight athletes. He believed stretching introduces unnecessary hyper-mobility to joints. Instead he advocates a good warm-up routine. Evidence is appearing to [i]suggest [/i] static stretching introduces a loss in power during exercise.

Dynamic stretching - yes. But personally, I steer clear of static stretching pre-exercise.

Surfer - it works over two joints, well gastrocnemius does anyway. You were commenting on stretching in the bath...

You do know that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing dont you..

There are four stages of learning:

1 - Not knowing what you dont know,
2 - knowing what you dont know,
3 - knowing your subject but having to think about it to get things right,
4 - knowing the subject and not needing to think to get it right.

You appear to be at level 1 - the most dangerous.

And as for where you start slevering about doing stuff in the bath thats just gibberish - the physio next to me says so.

that bit there goan anyways no matter cant be arsed anymore.

nonk - you have completely misread my post.

You seem unable to contradict using evidence.

I didnt mention the bath I was asked if stretching once muscles were warm was sufficient to mimick a "warm up" You seem to have latched onto this bath thing, try to stay on message, after all you have a helper!

We were talking about muscles and you are now talking about joints!

HTTP404 hit the nail on the head and Gordon Pirie knew a bit about top flight performance. (he won the National XC by a mile at the park just down the road from me interestingly enough, to me anyway!)

ah well apology should see me right then. 😉

Surfer - I am unable to contradict using evidence because what you have written doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

You do know what muscles are for dont you? If you knew this you would know why i am talking about joints....

You do know what muscles are for dont you? If you knew this you would know why i am talking about joints....

I understand exactly the relationship. However if the muscle is damaged then the joint is almost meaningless in its rehabilitation.

Why is post run stretching "crap"

So if we shouldn't stretch before exercise, when should we? during? after? both? neither?

My advice is:

Warm up slowly. Stretch post run.

edit: run till your eye balls pop in the middle!

tomzo - the answer is "it depends"

If you really want to know about stretching have a read through this bit of light bed time reading. http://people.bath.ac.uk/masrjb/Stretch/stretching_1.html

If you'll excuse me I have to go and get another beer then go off to physio school tomorrow...

physio school tomorrow...

Junior school?

After all that and with help, you still cant offer an opinion?

No - The UKs premier university for Physiotherapy. 6th in the world apparently too.

I've given my opinion several times. Its basic engineering - if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Physio isnt voodoo.

Even your own text states:

Unfortunately, even those who stretch do not always stretch properly and hence do not reap some or all of these benefits. Some of the most common mistakes made when stretching are:

* improper warm-up

Night night!

I feel sorry for you. I couldn't cope with being that thick. How do you type when you cant read?

I feel sorry for you. I couldn't cope with being that thick. How do you type when you cant read?

More insults. Bit lame really for someone who professes to be an authority on a subject.

You have summarily refused to take my point on board so I am using the evidence that is presented to me - just like you asked...

I have missed your point as it has been shrouded in insults.

My point is summarised a couple of posts up.

What is yours?
How does it conflict with mine?
Why is post run stretching "crap advice"?

goan your on proper c*nt form tonight old bean.

Wibble-fest.

I stopped stretching pre-exercise because I started noticing niggles developing that I don't get if I just take it easy for the first ten minutes.

I stretch after training when I'm warm, or gently in the evening. Pretty standard stuff with and emphasis on relaxation and breathing. I find if I force stretching it messes with my posture, concentrate on posture ahead of how far you can stretch.

If you do too much on a specific muscle group you'll get imbalances, try and keep it well-rounded.

So if we shouldn't stretch before exercise, when should we? during? after? both? neither?

If you're going to do it. Do dynamic stretching. And do it post exercise.
(I now do no stretching whatsoever - have an intense exercise routine and remain injury free)

And your warm-up should reflect the full range of motion of the exercise - but nothing more. It's pointless to hyper-extend the movement.

if it ain't broke don't fix it.

But then again why wait until it's broke? Once injured it can be extremely difficult to shake off.

If you're going to do it. Do dynamic stretching. And do it post exercise.
(I now do no stretching whatsoever - have an intense exercise routine and remain injury free)

Interesting point. I do some calf, Achilles stretching but mainly because I have had injuries in these areas in the past. not sure it benefits me.
I do more recently have problems around my hips and lower back which I think are eased by stretching but cant be sure.

Phisio i use tells me to stretch plenty before and after i run. Strangely enough it seems to work. To be honest he has treated 3 different injuries over the past couple of years and all are now ok. (Knee calf and shins)

In the past i have been a little lazy about stretching/warming up properly but the cost of phisio's has cured me.

Not sure you will ever stay injury free if you run high mileage tho, depends how well you are put together to start with. Genetics.

surfer, try strengthening the muscle around the injury(s) rather than stretching it.
I stopped stretching altogether after a knee injury and just went for the strengthening exercises.

I've given my opinion several times. Its basic engineering - if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Exactly how long have you been a physio student?
You were an expert car driver now you're an authority in physiotherapy after only training for a matter of days/weeks, is there no end to your talents?

I run straight out of the door and run half the time (with others) along gravel and flat muddy singletrack, but when I go out on my own I run along the coastal path or along the slippiest filthiest trails I can find to keep me interested and grip is massively important, but I run for about 5-10 minutes per run on the road so a bit of give would be nice. When I'm at home I go out on the moors with them.

If your across from Kingdom Runners, I take it your in St Andrews? I run the coastal path quite a bit and can't think of any parts that would need anything more than trail shoes. Walsh PB's and the like would be a bit overkill IMO. Although your close to Largo Law, so get some PB's or some Swoops and get fell running 🙂 Much more fun than the coastal path!

I never stretch before or after running. Sorry. I haven't done anything for ohhh 4-5 years, something like that, and remain injury free, running about 30-40k a week.

Given Goan's attitude though, I wouldn't want his help

nickc - I'm happy enough with that. I'm happier that my advice that has been taken on board by people who have asked for it has worked though....

So - as I asked - exactly how long have you been training to be a physio?

FWIW - PNF absolutely rocks.

Uplink - how long have the others been training as physios?

I an at the end of the 1st semester of first year, but have been working part time as a physio assistant for around 6 years.

Uplink - how long have the others been training as physios?

I've never trained but - unlike you - I haven't offered any advice on the subject

don't you think that you should have made it clear that you were only a 1st year student?

Didn't say that you did - hence others and not you....

[i], but have been working part time as a physio assistant for around 6 years. [/i]

You mean you make cups of tea for your wife? 🙂

6 years as an [i]assistant [/i]is a long time.
I've got a friend who works as a dental assistant but she's not going to be lecturing on root canal surgery anywhere soon.

1 term done and Goan is God

I lectured at honours degree level in biomechanics and exercise physiology and I didn't know everything

I never stretch, but if I did, I could do PNF without a partner or expensive equipment.

Do you actually know what PNF stands for Goan - without google?

Money for shoes, but no money for refunds for your 'mates' you screwed over eh?

I'm more concerned about how you can run for 5-10 minutes on tarmac in xc spikes. That would do my head in. Are you using them without the spikes? I can think of lots of more suitable shoes...