Possibly the best forward, certainly the best lock was what I said. Its really too difficult to compare a lock agaisnt a 7 I guess.
Outplayed Itoje every time they have met. Lawes has not fulfilled his promise and is nowhere near as good. Kruis - too inconsistent. Toner - I have issues with him 'cos he looks like a bank manager but indeed he is very good. Probably the next best. AWJ a few years ago maybe. Again a very good player but nothing like ickle jonny. Its the Engine / workrate that is incredible. regularly tops the tackle and carry stats ( for number of carries not distance. as he is usually clearing up rubbish)
Against sarries and although Glasgow were well beaten the actual match stats are very even.
Made 20 tackles missing none. Itoje 14 tackles missing 5 Kruis 15 tackles missing 2
Itoje 2 penalties, Kruis 2 penalties, Gray none
carries - Gray 14 ( for a miserable 3m) one defender beaten. Itoje 10 carries for 48m Kruis 7 for 1m Plus gray made a couple of passes, Itoje 3, kruis none
Kruis one turnover against, Gray and Itoje none
so Gray was involved n the game much more than either and made fewer errors
He completely outplayed both. Made more tackles missing none, gave away no penalties, made more carries ( but for less m than Itoje) A couple of incidents come to mind - him beating Itoje from one ruck to the next and the look on Itojes face when he found himself the only Sarries forward facing 3 Glasgow forwards at one breakdown as the rest of the sarries forwards including Kruis were simply to tired to keep up with them. Itoje was good in that game I have to say - one of the best performances I have seen from him.
I really do not get why he is not rated outside of Scotland. If he was any other nation he would be lauded to the skys
TJ and his stats!! Was Itoje not playing 6?
If you stand right by a ruck the tackles are easier as its just fat slow lads running at you.
😀
It was best forward in the world a page ago
+1
I still haven't stopped laughing. When I do, I might* take Teej up on it.
*I probably won't.
Keep going though TeeJ, you're having a special few days on the thread.
How many Lions Tours has Gray been on...less than Cory Hill thats how shit he is!
In other news Gatland has gone back to NZ as his dad has died...condolences to all.
Against sarries and although Glasgow were well beaten the actual match stats are very even.
Just stop this kind of shit will you? It's an insult to the intelligence of the people that post here.
Stats are for before the game...maybe during the game...and maybe with a close result afterwards, they can be interesting. And when the coaches sit down to make their selections, they'll look at them in the kind of forensic detail that you can't apply.
I don't get your point Darcy?
My point was that similar number of tackles made and metres run by each team. In the past I have been told " of course jonny made more tackles - his team had to make more". In this case it wasn't that so all I was doing was pre empting that comment I thought.
I did say "Glasgow were well beaten"
Itoje was at lock according to the stats page I use Was he not?
I also looked at the stats for the last calcutta cup match - again Gray s stats were better than both Lawes and Itoje and Itoje certainly was at lock for that game ( bar again Itoje made more metres running.)
Oh and don't start on the english welsh and Irish lions again. We know Gatland does not pick scots no matter what.
Jonny would only have been able to go on the last tour. still at school for the previous one and many pundits thought he should have gone but he was knackered and lost form
Lions are no longer relevant or interesting if you are a scot. We never get players picked even if they are outstanding.
Itoje was at lock according to the stats page I use Was he not?
Dont know, he was at 6 this weekend though.
We know Gatland does not pick scots no matter what.
He picked the good ones as well as Laidlaw and Seymour! He's pretty much the most successful Lions coach of the pro era so I'm sure he's happy with his picks.
I'm paraphrasing slightly but I remember something one of Toners coaches saying he was proof that if you found someone 6' 10" with reasonable athletic ability you could eventually turn him into an international class rugby lock.
Only starting out but I wouldn't swap James Ryan for any of the above.
I wouldn’t swap James Ryan for any of the above.
If swapping is an option does anyone want to make me an offer for Beard, Hill or Bradley Davies?
I don’t get your point Darcy?
Of course you don't. I didn't load it with meaningless stats showing a beaten team was almost equal on stats with the team that beat it in the one really important stat.
Brexit Bruce's Bath told to sod off.
DD - read my explanation. It was simply to compare the performance of the locks. total number of tackles made by the teams was very similar yet Gray made 20 tackles missing none yet Itoje missed 5 completing 14. Previously I have been told " of course Gray made more tackles - Glasgow defended more". In this match that wasn't so Thats all my comment about the overall stats being similar was for as I clearly stated.
You rally think its meaningless that Itoje attempted nearly as many tackles as Gray but missed 5 of them and Kruis didnt even attempt as many yet still missed 2 and that both Sarries locks gave away 2 pens and Gray none?
I also said Glasgow were well beaten despite the overall stats
OK Ok
Especially for AA we have a couple of players who are even more orange than Henson. Have you seen Dohan van der Merwe the wing and Jaco van der Walt the Edinburgh 10? doesn't llook that orange in this pic but when you see him playing he lookslike he has been tangoed
Heres one for Kryton!
Cips literally pales in comparison next to that ugly Essex chap...
Cips literally pales in comparison
On many levels!!
Wade officially released by Wasps to pursue a career in the NFL. That’s going to leave a hole in the Wasps back line.
Murray to miss all of Ireland’s AI’s due to a bulging disc. A pretty big blow considering how important he is for Ireland.
And TJ’s back with his stats to prove that Gray is in fact the greatest lock / forward the world has seen 😉
Why does Ickle Johnny run like a semi tranquilized giraffe? And why is it in slow motion?
3 week ban for Cips. What a farce!
Have you not seen the matrix bigblackshed? 😉
3 week ban for Cips. What a farce!
Or just maybe you are not entirely impartial in judgement. Was a clear shoulder to head.
Jonnie has slow leg speed but a bfg stride.
Cips ban is daft. Unless the ban is for being to slow to move out the way. He definitely wasn't comitted to the tackle.
Pretty sure the ban is for sticking his shoulder in someones face, thats not allowed in rugby.
Was a clear shoulder to head.
...but clear to anybody it wasn’t deliberate. So this basically means than if anyone’s faces hits a shoulder during a tackle situation, they face a ban. He’s being used as the weakest possible example.
#RugbysGoneSoft
but clear to anybody it wasn’t deliberate
That doesnt matter.
So this basically means than if anyone’s faces hits a shoulder during a tackle situation, they face a ban.
No because his shoulder goes into the tackled players face. Its pretty clear maybe you should open the other eye.
No it doesn’t, he’s standing still and the 12 is coming on to him, albeit he’s too upright in the tackle - and the face goes into hi shoulder. I’d agree with the red card based on “duty of care”, but Cips never dipped or took any action to deliberately hit with the shoulder which in my opinion, would be justification for the ban.
It should have been a red card and a telling off.
And - what DD said.
No it doesn’t, he’s standing still and the 12 is coming on to him,
True but his final movement is shoulder forward into the other fellas face.
Cips never dipped
Had he done it might not have been a high tackle.
or took any action to deliberately hit with the shoulder
Look at the way he holds his arm its clear he is using his shoulder to tackle without wrapping and it hits the blokes face. It a stone cold red card ref knew it, player knew it and the captains knew it.
It should have been a red card and a telling off.
Which is pretty much what a 3 week ban is, its about as short as they can go without over turning the decision.
I was looking at teams and fixtures for this weekend and bemoaning the fact ~Edinburgh have lost 17 players to national side training when I saw Scarlets have lost 20! this surely is unsustainable?
Its not as bad as a few years ago now both Edinburgh and Glasgow have bigger squads as a few years ago Glasgow had to bench a semi pro prop as they just had no one else who could play prop available. I think glasgow are really toiling to get two locks and a sub for this weekend.
What can we do about this clash of club v country? Is there a solution? Less club games?
And – what DD said.
Perhaps with the opposite intent.
I was looking at teams and fixtures for this weekend and bemoaning the fact ~Edinburgh have lost 17 players to national side training when I saw Scarlets have lost 20! this surely is unsustainable?
Whilst the Irish, Italians and SA's are losing none this weekend...bloody stupid. Mind you 20 seems a lot, that must call ups and injured surely?
Edit... just checked I only count 11 Scarlets in squad
The self serving Mark McCafferty has claimed that the set up of the English game is correct and is not preventing England winning another World Cup. Central contracts are not right for England and as it stands were able to maximise the players...
Er given that most of our team is continually broken and we’re slipping behind NZ and Ireland I beg to differ. We’re struggling at European level too. The only people that the current system benefits is the club owners.
It’s not going to change any time soon, but it’s clear that the current system isn’t what it should be; the international players look bloody shagged most of the time. Trouble is that the clubs are too powerful and have no interest in supporting the national team.
Its very true mindmap - the scots setup prioritises national team over the clubs. sometimes this leads to decisions about when and where the clubs play players going against the interests of the clubs which can also be frustrating
AA - just what I read on another forum. Still losing so many players must weaken teams. Zebre also lost a fair few players as Italy have a game as well
Personally I think it’s a sad state of affairs when club level rugby is deemed more important than international rugby. For me, the clubs should be supporting the national team. It also seems that very few of say our U20’s guys get much game time at club level. The other unions seem to be doing a much better job of producing good young players and actually trusting them to play. It’s probably too late for the RFU to instigate and changes now.
I appreciate that there’s far more too it (i.e. too many English players / teams are over coached) but not having to field players that are flogged to death would benefit the clubs too at European level.
It feels pretty gloomy at the mo for an English rugby fan; I can’t see us making much impact on the Champions Cup other than being an almost guaranteed four points and can’t see us having a good AI’s or 6N.
Scarlets dig in for the win!
Zebre giving Edinburgh a hell of a game; 24 points in the scone half scored by them and they now lead by 11. They’re no mugs these days the Italian teams.
Squeeky bum time AA?
In other news Edinburgh revet to a large steaming pile of horse manure. I shall sulk.
11 players missing to the national setup did not help but thats no excuse. I suspect Cockerill will be having words!
Squeeky bum time AA?
I felt a bit sorry for the Kings tbh, deserved to win.
Edinburgh got humped but Zebre who scored 33 points in the second half.
Wuss doing well in the new pointless cup replacement.
Don't rub it in mindmap!
Ha ha TJ. Too busy patting themselves on the back after last week?
Mindmap3 - surely you mean slipped behind Nz, Ireland and wales...
