MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
If he has any sense it would be Wigglesworth , Hask and Simmons ( as an 8) maybe Teo.
Haskell wasn’t that bad yesterday and bought some form of enthusiasm. But again he’s gettin in and his form has been shit since he hurt his toe
Hartely’s days must be numbered; George and Cowan-Dickis both offer a lot more. Wigglesworth was only ever there as a band aid fix but again wasn’t that that bad and certainly controlled the game better than Care.
Cole surely needs to be on the list; he does sweet FA.
After Jones said that some of yesterday’s team have played their last game for England, any guesses who he’s referring to? Some contenders off the top of my head:
Hartley?
Haskell?
Wigglesworth?
Joseph?
I thought Joseph looked scarily good when he played 2 or 3 years ago. Players lose form at times, but it can come back. Or is it those around him, not allowing him to play at his best?
I hear often that England has the biggest pool of players to choose from, which makes sense. Are France on a par?
Cole surely needs to be on the list; he does sweet FA.
Didnt Sinkler start yesterday and was a bit pants in the scrum?
Eddie needs to balance his squad. An injury to the only proper 7 and he's playing second rows on the flank. An injury to a 9 and he's reaching for a 34 year old who's not played for England (for good reason) for a long time. Poor depth at centre too.
The whole squad is overdue a comprehensive overhaul.
England have 2 million registered players ( I find that hard to believe) and 130 000 senior men players France 350 000 and 125000 Ireland 150000 and 140000. Scotloand 38000 and 36000
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rugby_union_playing_countries
Seems a bit odd to me those numbers tho.
Seems a bit odd to me those numbers tho.
Yes, thanks Tj - I guess those numbers aren’t overly useful to get an idea of how big a pool of players each coach has to draw upon.
I think Scotland has around 60 pro players England 2 or 3 hundred
Makes precisely zero difference. There is no reason that the best 15 english players would be any better than 15 from any there nation regardless of a size of the pool, there are far more important factors as demonstrated by NZ. The VAST majority of those registered players are very far removed from those we watch on TV, it only demonstrates the health of the amateur game in England.
Look at NZ, a small population but their culture around the game, their coaching and to some extent the physical predisposition of the indigenous population ( and those surrounding...ahem) means that they are one of the most dominant sports teams ever. If the PI's had a pot to piss in, they'd probably be scary good too.
In B & I, and Australia there are far more popular sports meaning that the nations don't attach the importance or significance to the game that NZ do.
I think Scotland has around 60 pro players England 2 or 3 hundred
<div>Likely more in both cases I reckon. I'd be suprised if Glasgow and Edinburgh only had playing squads of 30. I think Bristol had 55 odd on the books fairly recently.</div>
Didnt Sinkler start yesterday and was a bit pants in the scrum?
Yes. Our props are either slow fat lumps who are good in the scrum or mobile guys who can’t scrum for shit. Cole has been playing a lot for Tigers (regularly plays 80mins) but seems to be a spent force more and more these days. Aside from scrum and give away penalties he does sweet FA these days.
The squad does need a few new faces and an attack coach wouldn’t go amiss.
Edinburgh squad is 34 scotland qualified players 42 in total I just counted them. Glasgow around 40 scots qualified out of 58 - a few of the players I am not sure of their nationality . That Glasgow squad includes some academy players I think Scottish teams have less than half the budget of the smallest of the english teams I believe. It is more than I thought tho give another dozen or so scots playing pro rugby outside of Scotland. well under a hundred tho scots pro players and that includes both some kids and some ready to retire
the more players you have the more chance you have of unearthing stars but yes - the size of the pool does not dictate its depth
We've done this before TJ.....Sale (arguably THE smallest English team) have no where near double the budget of Embra and Glasgow. Aren't they both around the 5m mark? Sale are "significantly under the salary cap" according to an interview by Steve Diamond at the start of the year....
Worcester and Irish will be well under the cap too.
the players budget total is around 4 million for each of the teams or a little more English salary cap is 7 million IIRC and yo get various other categories of players that are not included in the cap and many / most english teams break the cap anyway. The 4 million or so that Glasgow have for players is every single player. so maybe not half the budget of the smaller teams but well less than half the average
That's what I'm lead to believe mindmap3
Looking at it again those edinburgh and Glasgow squads include academy players who I believe do not count for salery cap in England
I am amazed that a thread about rugby has gone to 87 pages on an mtb forum.
Thanks for your insightful input.
I am amazed that a thread about rugby has gone to 87 pages on an mtb forum.
Are we we not allowed to chat about rugby if we like bikes?
Corofin won the ball game I watched yesterday and the small ball game went to a replay.
Oh, a Gaaaaa man. The Corofin - Nemo Rangers game was a masterclass and the Na Piarsiagh (my club as a teenager) - Cuala game sounded like an epic. However, this is a rugby thread sweetheart, and you won’t find a great deal of interest in Gaelic Games here, as much as they’re awesome. Have you anything else useful to add?
Of course you can "I'm only sayin is all".
I'm not a gaaaa man I'm a 24 hour solo mtb man .
I'll get my coat I'm in the wrong forum
This is not soccer, as Nigel would say:
Also, have a look at Vlad Iordachescu's wikipedia page. I suspect it has been updated recently.
Swap Guirado for Basteraud and I'd be happy with the rest.
Prior to the 6 N's the 'arrogant Englishman' that I am, would have said winning the summer tour to SA 3-0 would be the target.....now I'm not really sure....a win of any sort would be nice!
What are the other home nations up to over the summer?
Have you read the story on that Spain v Belgium game BruceWee? In a nutshell, if Spain had won then I believe that they would have qualified for the RWC at the expense of Romania. They were massive favourites, and after loosing, seem to have been rather unhappy with the performance of the Romanian ref!
Yes, it's definitely the most suspicious referee performance since the Scotland England game.
Watching the video, I can't imagine that the Spanish 6 will need to worry about turning up to training in the coming months!
28 to 4 was the pen count! They asked for a change of ref team but the Romanian head of ER didn't feel it was needed....
What are the other home nations up to over the summer?
ireland do a 3 test series in Australia. Wales have a one-off against South Africa in Washington then a couple in Argentina. Scotland have a tour of the Americas (Canada, USA then Argentina). France have a 3 test series in New Zealand.
It's funny, when England have done well in the six nations I don't remember anyone saying it wasn't important. 😀
SA must feel a bit gutted to be playing one of the lesser NH teams.
(I’m only teasing!)
SA must feel a bit gutted to be playing one of the lesser NH teams.
I understand now how AA feels most of the time.
now you have done it Kryton! 3 pages of angry rantings coming!
I understand now how AA feels most of the time.
I doubt you have the empathy!
I've just realised that a couple of weeks ago Calum Clark broke his arm whilst playing against Leicester......there's a real sense of karma in that!
He is a horrible barsteward, the irony was not lost on me,even though I would never wish injury on a rugby player....Apart from him. Did that on a Sat night and it would be jail.
He should have been charged with assault.
Scummy Irish.
www.sixnationsrugby.com/mobile/en/news/33044.php
Rugby Special on 5live is worth a listen for anybody who didn’t catch it. All the better for not having Matt Dawson. Ugo Monye is turning out to be quite good on tv/radio. I really quite like him. To be fair, Care did the spot as the England player post shit 6N - probably not a gig many of the England players wanted to do and he was pretty honest.
Ugo Monye has turned out to be a rather good pundit. Him and Moore are my favourites along with Jonny Beatie ( but I don't think he is broadcast outside of scotland)
Watson out for the rest of the season, Guscott and Greenwood calling to rest the players.
I had an email from an Aus work mate today who has friends close to a former Australian squad. He was told this is very similar to Jones coaching at Aus, he's a very intense individual that drove the players to tiredness with many falling out with him and getting fed up with his intense attitude. Maybe EJ's only good in short spurts such as Japan experienced.
whilst not condoning Clark, it is interesting how Pinetrees was pretty much universally lauded but carried out equivalent thuggery on Ken Catchpole.
Scummy Irish.
Cant stand that elbows on the floor angry faced scummy git. Now he's trying to act like an ugly SBW I hate him even more!! 😉
He's a gif machine.
That's brilliant! Two other players actually arrive after him to ensure their team mate gets the ball down,he is already getting up to continue the celebration!!!
www.theplayerschronicle.com/rugby/jamie-heaslip-the-end-is-really-the-beginning/
Really enjoyed reading that ^
It's a letter from Jamie Heaslip to his younger self (it's a few days old but haven't seen it posted on here)
That’s brilliant! Two other players actually arrive after him to ensure their team mate gets the ball down,he is already getting up to continue the celebration!!!
It was being carried by Stander. POM knew there was no doubt the try would be scored.
Dregs v Cheetahs is on the red button.....have Cheetahs actually got a defence coach? If so has said person ever played rugby?!
Fullback is good though!! Paaaaaaaace
Edinburgh win again - coming from behind in the last 20. what is going on? Edinburgh should be in the euro cup at this rate. Edinburgh also got a try after 10 seconds!
Sale Sharks 58 Worcester 25
Just sayin'
Spreys looking good tonight.
Shame the video ref is blind folded. How was that last try given?
Blues do Edinburgh a favour by beating ulster. We really should have both Scots teams in the european cup and in the playoffs now. Still possible for Edinburgh to miss out but not likely.
Next week Leinster play Saracens - I bet you the english papers and pundits are whinging endlessly about how unfair it is that Sarries had to play their internationals while Leinster rested theirs. Completely bogus - sarries are not in a relegation dogfight and all teams rotate players as no player can play every game. But I bet this is said many times over the next week and especially if Leinster win
Tuilagi going off injured again
Now that is really sad
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43533268
Adam Jones retires, 3 grand slams, 3 world cups, 2 Lions tours...legend
Have we all seen the Toulon score?
😀
Legend is far overused in the modern era and often used to describe a short moment in time, however in this instance it down not really convey his contribution to rugby and the teams he has played in.
A true great.
Yep, one of the greatest No.3 shirts for sure. Although I’m sure I remember him having to come on at No.1 a few years ago and still out-scrummaging the opposition tighthead. Seems to be one of the good guys too.
Gethin is still my fav prop though!!
Tuilagi really is turning into a waste of money for Leicester, he's the highest paid player in the premiership and he hardly ever bloody plays!
Bah
his contribution to rugby and the teams he has played in.
Yep. One of the good ones.
Jones transcends the boundary of national and club support, he is an impossible bloke to dislike. Always wears a smile and is always game for a drop goal. Having watched him scrum for the majority of the Lions win in australia, he's interviewed and all he can do is heap praise on the other prop. An absolute gent and what rugby players should be.
In other news, Cuthbert to Exeter. I predict they'll do what they usually do and turn him into one of the most potent wings in the AP.
In response to TJ above it would be interesting subject to injury, to note how many internationals turned out for their Province this weekend compared to their England counterparts across the board.
Jones officially retired. To be honest I saw the size of him dishing out the water and thought he WAS gone already. He was a player and a half.
I bet you the english papers and pundits are whinging endlessly about how unfair it is that Sarries had to play their internationals while Leinster rested theirs. Completely bogus – sarries are not in a relegation dogfight and all teams rotate players as no player can play every game.
Thats because the 'celtic' sides have centralised contracts with their respective unions, IRFU etc so player welfare is more of a priority for the union than at club level with the 'prem' sides with non union contracts. 'Prem' players have to answer to their clubs who are paying there fairly sizable wage packets so are less likley to get rested after say a six nations campaign than a celtic based player would. Look at the George North issue recently with Northampton, Alan 'dean' Gaffney wanted him to play against Sale, but he wanted to rest to give best conditioning for the Italy game the weekend after, being on a tidy slice at Northampton that didn't go down too well. Probably one of the main reasons for wanting to move back to the WRU on a dual centralised contract with the union.
Scamper - I would be fairly sure that the english clubs played more of their internationals.
Some points tho one is that the most successful pro 14 teams like leinster do not have a first 15 plus subs - they have a complete squad with at least 2 players in every position that can seamlessly rotate in and out - I call this the leinster lesson and no team can compete at the top end in europe without this. teams like Sarries spend their money on a first 15 crammed with stars, Leinster on a wider squad. also with a smaller number of teams - 4 Irish compared to 14( ap) then the internationals are more concentrated per team in the pro 14
No player can play every game no matter the team - - 11 internationals a season, 8 games in the euro cup if you have a half decent run does not leave many league games you can play - 25 or so games a season is enough
Saracens have injuries to cover as well which leinster have not to the same extent
Both Leinster and Saracens are at the top end of their respective tables so the excuse of sarries having to avoid relegation is bogus - thats the excuse being used this season - a couple of years ago it was "euro qualification was too easy" for the pro 14 teams
Leinster lost their game ( putting them closer to an away playoff game), sarries won theirs
The pro 14 teams being union controlled to a greater or lessor extent means the national team is prioritised.
this issue is a product of the RFU giving too much control to the PRL. Its not that the pro 14 teams have any unfair advantage its that the RFU have hamstrung their international team by giving too much power to the PRL
I will bet however that this is trotted out as a reason for the PRL to want to try to disadvantage the pro 14 teams in the euro cup further. I am so fed up of the cries of "its not fair" from the PRL
It's not just avoiding relegation, at this point in the season, it's all to play for. A home semi final in the AP playoffs is worth playing for. As such, all the English internationals have played this weekend (and 2 were crocked in the Leicester / Wasps game although I'm not sure that knocking yourself out or dislocating a finger are directly fatigue related)
The avoiding relegation is the excuse for not playing expansive high risk rugby. The penalty for failure is too high - generally the complete decimation of the club.
I also think the AP players are limited to 32 gales a season, as you state, 25 are enough. Effectively the AP players play for 2 more months of the year! I wonder how then, with all that practice, that they seem incapable of the basic skills clearly on show in the rest of the world!
Look at the George North issue recently with Northampton, Alan ‘dean’ Gaffney wanted him to play against Sale, but he wanted to rest to give best conditioning for the Italy game the weekend after
Not a great example as all the England players do get rested by their clubs but any Irish, Welsh, Scots or Italians dont.
A home semi final in the AP playoffs is worth playing for. As such, all the English internationals have played this weekend (and 2 were crocked in the Leicester / Wasps game although I’m not sure that knocking yourself out or dislocating a finger are directly fatigue related)
Again it all depends, Tips, AWJ and all the other Ospreylian Welsh internationals played this weekend.
tinybits - but Leinster were in the same position - that loss this weekend puts them in danger of not getting a home playoff
Some points tho one is that the most successful pro 14 teams like leinster do not have a first 15 plus subs – they have a complete squad with at least 2 players in every position that can seamlessly rotate in and out – I call this the leinster lesson and no team can compete at the top end in europe without this. teams like Sarries spend their money on a first 15 crammed with stars, Leinster on a wider squad. also with a smaller number of teams – 4 Irish compared to 14( ap) then the internationals are more concentrated per team in the pro 14
That's not really true TJ - Sarries over the last two years have been very good at rotating their players and were one of the few AP teams who did so. Low and behold, they were pretty successful during this time. The key was not their superstars getting international call ups but the solid club players like Wray who were there week in week out. These guys were rotated heavily was well.
Trouble for Sarries this season is that they've had a mare with injurues in the pack and have had a few players retire which has meant that the likes of Itoje and Mako have been flogged. It's the loss of the solid club guys (retirement / injury) that's hurt them badly this year because they were the guys that they banked on every week.
Central contracts have proven to be a very good way of managing player welfare and the RFU ballsed up by not adopting this when they had the chance. The number of games modern players are expected to play is not sustainable without rest. The PRL can whine all they want - the only way to even up the rest / freshness issue is to hand back control of international players to the RFU which will never happen now.
Fair enough mindmap. ta
The Irish set up is clearly leading the way in the NH - it's winning at international and domestic level. This mixed with a good crop of players, excellent coaches etc.
I'm not sure that Jones's hard, flogging training methods will be helping the English players, especially those playing an awful lot.
It's never going to be an easy one for the AP teams to solve now - they and the RFU need to work further together.