MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
What was the scuffle for to start with? They must've been rolling around for some reason?
What was the scuffle for to start with? They must’ve been rolling around for some reason?
When asked by Owens the players said they didn't know.
AA - thats what he can do and why we love him. If he had got it wrong tho it was try the other way. High risk high reward paid off. Could any other NH 10 do that? - maybe. would they dare? I doubt it
Thats why Racing are paying 3/4 million a year for him
Could any other NH 10 do that? – maybe. would they dare?
Henson! 😉
Mind yo I doubt any other NH 10 even playing for Ayr seconds would miss two pens to touch in the same game
12 weeks for contact with the eye. 4 for the eye area. Better get the good buscuits in.
We need Strokosch back. From that position he would have gotten Hughes in a triangle and choked him out. Not sure what the sanction for that would have been.
What is the potential sanction for Hughes trying to throttle Wilson? Does he run any risk in any investigation? Particularly as in all the footage I’ve seen (and there will be loads I haven’t) Hughes looks like the aggresssor.
Sexton trying to gouge while handing off (seriously he is such an unpleasant player. Pretty much the only player in the world who I’d applaud for breaking his leg).
What no citing for Sexton how surprising ?:)
that gif looks like there are plenty of other areas he could have gone for - the hand on his throat, the arm, the shoulder..... but he seems to reach up and have a scratch
(slo-mo can deceive, agreed)
Have you ever been choked? I have. It becomes somewhat difficult to make rational decisions unless you're someone who finds themselves in that situation regularly such as BJJ or MMA practitioners .
Once you feel your wind pipe closing and you can't breath it's difficult not to panic so it's a bit much to ask that he carefully places his hand on a part of the body that doesn't run the risk of being interpreted as an attempt to gouge.
Seriously. He thought he was going to get murdered on the rugby pitch in front of thousands?
I don't think he's required to carefully place his hand "on a part of the body that doesn’t run the risk of being interpreted as an attempt to gouge" - just that specifically he mustn't contact the eye area. Which the video SEEMS to show him doing, specifically. If he was seriously in fear of being choked, punch him in the face instead.
SEEMS.
Which i then said may appear worse because of the slow-mo.
I'm not saying he did or didn't, I'm saying what it SEEMS like from a slow-mo video.
Presumably you can hold your breath for 20 seconds pretty easily?
Here's something you can try. Lie down and get a friend to climb on top of you and then put his hand on your throat. Doesn't have to be much pressure, just enough so that your windpipe closes and you can't breath. After 20 seconds he'll let you go so it's completely safe.
Let us know if you last the whole 20 seconds without freaking out and trying to claw at whatever part of his body you can get hold of.
Oh, and while you're at it you can try and punch your friend in the face from that position and tell us how effective you reckon it would be.
Is there anything that shows what caused the scuffle? Everything just seems to be the two of the wrestling, nothing showing why they get pissed off at each other.
I don't disagree, it'd be nasty. But that isn't what happened here, is it? What do YOU think happened here?
I think something happened that caused Hughes to grab Wilson by the throat, who then SEEMS (I said it again! Seems!) to rake his fingers into Hughes' face 'in the eye area'. Maybe a pure accident, but he does contact the eye area doesn't he, in spite of everyone knowing that's the one area not to contact?
In fact Hughes doesn't even have him pinned down at that point, that seems to come in response to the apparent gouge.
Is there anything that shows what caused the scuffle?
I can't find it now, but I'm sure i read somewhere that there was a suggestion he'd already had a go at Hughes in the ruck immediately before (forearm/elbow across the face iirc?)
Hughes had his hand on Wilson's throat. Wilson's hand went to Hughes face.
Hughes did not try to choke Wilson because Wilson tried to gouge him
I think you're doing a bit of a President Bone Spurs here. You're seeing a situation from the outside that you've had no experience of yourself (I assume, you haven't said if you've ever been choked before) and imagine how you would act if you were in that situation.
It wouldn't surprise me if Wilson was going for his eyes or just going for anything he could get hold of on the face. He's not a trained fighter as far as I know. The chip shop outside Clatty Pats with three of his mates backing him up is more his style.
Until you feel yourself unable to breathe because of another human being on top of you and the instinctive panic that causes then you don't know how you'd react either. He'll probably get banned and Hughes will get nothing.
Either that or there is absolutely nothing in it as Wilson, Hughes, Nigel Owens, and the TMO all agreed on Saturday.
I wasn't doing anything, I wasn't imagining what i'd do in that situation at all. All I did was say what the gif made it SEEM like to me.
I didn't offer any prosecution or defence to why he would do what it SEEMS like he did, it was you who rode in on the white horse and started to offer mitigation and creating 'what would you have done' scenarios for me to answer, which are not even particularly relevant because it wasn't me. I'm just looking at a gif and simply saying what i see.
Take aside your if's and but's about whether Hughes was trying to choke him, or whether Wilson had already had a go at Hughes in the preceding ruck, what does that gif make it seem like to you? Because the more i look at it the more it LOOKS LIKE he went for the eye area.
(apologies for caps but can't get underlining to work, I'm just picking out the fact that i don't know intent, and only Wilson probably will but i do know what it looks like, and I'm interested whether you think it looks like that too, or it was just an accident. Because if the eye area is the one area players know they don't go for, he didn't do a very good job of specifically avoiding it)
EDIT - and clearly not nothing in it otherwise there wouldn't have been a citing. In fact if the TMO had done his job and called it at the time he'd probably have been red carded on the evidence and the game would have gone quite differently.
Yes, fine. It was a gouge.
Wilson would have been red-carded if it wasn't for Owens cocking up by not checking it, the TMO cocking up by not calling it, and Hughes cocking up by not saying anything about it when Owens asked him 'What's the problem?'
England woz robbed!
Hughes had his hand on Wilson’s throat. Wilson’s hand went to Hughes face.
But what happened before we saw them wrestling? Who instigated it? Hughes isn't a dirty player and has a pretty good disciplinary record.
Plucky Engerland robbed again! What a fud. Your player with a "pretty good record" has been banned already this season by the way.
Is that aimed at me? Just because it's a scottish term doesn't make personal abuse OK. Debating whether to report.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Fud
I'm not a rugby 'fan'; I just watch the games because I like almost all sports. I know enough about it to follow the game, and I know enough of the rules to understand most of what goes on and also importantly to know what i don't know. It also means I can ask questions based on what i see rather than preconceptions, and I'm just calling out what i see. Which was unless I'm mistaken a red card offence? Which would have substantially changed the game dynamic. Do you not agree?
I'm not claiming England were robbed (and I think anyone that is is taking the piss) - they were 100% humped and deserved what they got having been comprehensively outplayed across the field. But it would have been a different game, fact.
Your player with a “pretty good record” has been banned already this season by the way.
I'm not sure bringing up disciplinary records is a good way to go. Wilson has served a 3 month ban for assault (on 3 team mates), got a cited for grabbing a players testicles and was at the centre of the tunnel "incident"
Hughes got soft two weeks (not reduced) for a pretty ropey tackle but hardly dick dastardly.
On a lighter note, there is a specific law for the particular act of teste grabbing, which Duckers probably knows but I didn't. "Law 10.4 (m) Testicle grabbing or twisting or squeezing"
I'm unsure why I find this as funny as I do. Probably that the grabbing squeezing and twisting of testicles was so widespread at one point that it needed a dedicated law. Thinking about it, there are laws regarding biting, gouging and presumably other manners of assorted savagery. What a game rugby truly is.
I’m happy enough with the citing. Too many partisan views on it here. There is definite contact with the eye “area” - and it doesn’t matter if Showtime and the TMO “dealt with it” at the time. If it’s been spotted it’s right to have cited it. Just because the player has been cited, it doesn’t automatically mean the offence has been committed and Wilson will get a chance to explain and plead his case. I think you Scotchers have jumped on theotherjonv’s comment a little too eagerly. I don’t think anyone is really suggesting this was a game-changing moment - and while defending “your guy” is admirable - it’s always worth reading up on why incidents are cited, even if the ref has looked on the pitch and how they are dealt with afterwards. duckers, as a Level 27 referee, you need to start behaving yourself. 🙂
. In fact if the TMO had done his job and called it at the time he’d probably have been red carded on the evidence and the game would have gone quite differently. As others pointed out, before your back track I am glad that i'sn't you suggesting England were robbed in any way....You little Englander/master race don't handle defeat well; do you?
Wrecker; you seem to be forgetting that Hughes hadn't seen an especially interesting Highland orchid growing in the hybrid pitch and while admiring it was attacked. George North's head would also have a different view of Hughes than yours as well. As for the ban on Wilson, not for anything done on a pitch, he was banned by the SRU. You may also have noticed also that the tunnel incident is your player shoving other players?
I'm with Darcy - citing is not finding gulity and I am quite happy he was cited as there is a clear case to answer. Personally anything other than a short ban I think would be unjust. I also think Farrell should be dealt with for the Tunnel incedent
You little Englander/master race don’t handle defeat well; do you?
I can handle it fine ta. While I prefer to see England win, I don't have a chip in the game so to speak and I'm certainly not one of the 'anyone but' crew. And by not being a rabid fan, I'm not blind to what I see in front of my face.
I can see England got humped, deservedly. Scotland were awesome in defence and attack.
I can see a clear red card missed
I can see that would have changed the game. Not necessarily the overall result btw but clearly the game would have been different.
I can PROJECT England would have had a better chance - but I'll also absolutely say that it would have been undeserved on the performances of the two teams. I never said or thought they were robbed, not sure why I'm accused of backtracking.
Also not being a fan means I don't need to drop into using abusive and perjorative terms; something that I thought you rugger types were above. Clearly I don't know what I'm talking about there either.
I do have another question, hesitating to ask now.
Go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on go on
Bet it involves either Launchbury's knee or Lawes's arm. 🤔
Here goes though.
Rugby is a strange dichotomy. Legitimised thuggery on the pitch, matched to respect for the ref, the game, your opponents, and from fan to fan (mainly 😉 - there are a few fuds about)
At the same time it's a professional sport now and reputations and careers can be made or lost by performances and results on the pitch.
There are aspects that are close to being sacrosanct; gouging is one of them. Bleating to the ref is another. Feigning injury / faking another still.
In this Hughes - Wilson incident we had all three, more or less. It seems clear something happened before and as a result Hughes grabbed Wilson by the throat; Wilson retaliated in the eye area, the TV replay picked it up. Ref asked them what it was about, they said 'nothing', game moved on. Incorrectly, maybe, that's not this discussion.
Hughes didn't need to run up to the ref pointing at his face in the way footballers do. He was asked a clear question, and could have answered it or at the very least suggested Owens looked at the replays and made his mind up. He opted for honour among thieves.
If it had been proper handbags and a bit of slapping then I understand Hughes not breaking the 'don't be a grass' rule, but did Wilson cross the line first with his actions, and so make a case for Hughes calling him out on it? And by not taking advantage of a situation that legitimately presented itself (by that I mean he wasn't faking the incident to create a situation, it was clear to see) did Hughes 'fail' in being a professional and changing the game situation at that point?
TLDR - if he had grassed Wilson for a suspected gouge, would he be stigmatised for being a grass or is a gouge something that is 'worse' than grassing someone up.
And would his teammates be on him at halftime about being a div for not taking advantage, or patting him on the back for 'respecting the spirit' or whatever they'd call it.
Here you go then,If you watch the whole incident, Hughes is lying on top of Wilson, preventing him getting up. Wilson then locks his legs around Hughes waist as he gets up. Hughes picks up Wilson and slams him down then when that doesn't get him off grabs his throat. Wilson goes for Hughes throat initially then makes a grab at the face and comes into contact with the eye area. If we are looking at incidents in isolation, I wonder what part of Wilson touched the ground first, Hughes picked him up it is surely his duty of care to put him down safely? Now that is ridiculous, but not any more than suggesting that Wilson tried to gouge an eye. Thats why the tmo didn't intervene at the time in my opinion. And in my experience as a ref, gouging is one of the very few things that players will complain about immediately. ( I exclude all 9's from that few comment)
Callum Clark out for a long time with a broken arm.
Trying not to laugh
Come on, admit it. You're after John Inverdale's job aren't you.
Good news about Callum Clark though.
I also think Farrell should be dealt with for the Tunnel incedent
What law for pushing past someone in a rush to the changing room - which is all he’s currently proven to do? I do believe the current story is that its Wilson that then takes exception and grabs Farrell, until we hear otherwise.
”Incident” btw.
DD - that’s bad luck losing another centre, after Henshaw. What’s your cover like?
Typing from a phone Kryton old chap, sorry about the spelling. Borrow an eye from somebody and watch the video taken from above.
Ah yes, thanks. Farrell Hot headed there. I suspect Wilson was trying ti intimidate Ford on the way in. "I'm coming for yae sonny, dinner ken"? Or words to that effect.
all the talk about what led to Wilson getting in the position he found himself in doesnt matter. Its contact with the eye area that he's cited for. A gouge is a gouge regardless of whats being done to you. Hughes hasnt been cited so whatever he did do doesnt matter.
Still think he'll get off though. Nothing i it. Might get warned regarding future conduct.
DD – that’s bad luck losing another centre, after Henshaw. What’s your cover like?
Yeah, that’s tough on him. Had an excellent debut against Wales - think MOTM wasn’t he? Bad news for Munster too. He was certainly a good option for keeping Jones quiet for #IREvSCO. Ringrose is back from injury early though so I imagine he’ll play with O’Kee moving to 13. Scannell will likely be on the bench. Pity really, we had real depth at centre a while back but now the squad is minus Payne, Farrell and Henshaw - all starters on their day. There’s also an outside for McCloskey (ULS) to come into the squad if Joe wants to have another look at him. Not sure if he’s good enough for taking on the 5th best team in the world. #PrayingForBadWeathet
A lot of anti-O’Kee fans in Ireland now delighted for him holding the centre together for the next few weeks. 😀
A-A; I think he will get 4 weeks. Kryton; "dae ye no ken?" is the probable term; dinner is something you eat.....tries to resist/weakens/fails....Pudding can be part of that meal.(sorry)
Yup, four weeks, I reckon. Possibly overturned on appeal.
so what of my question - was Hughes being 'naive'? 'Unprofessional'? for not taking advantage of the situation that presented. In a game where it seems to be in the spirit of getting away with as much as possible as long as the ref doesn't see it (or when he yells hands off! make like you haven't been caught with your hands in the sweetie jar) - letting an opponent get away with one of the more heinous acts is surprising TO MY UNSKILLED EYE.
Genuinely not being difficult or obtuse here. Last time I played was as a kid at school, I know enough to enjoy games (and there have been some good ones) and I'm trying to further my understanding of the nuances (look back at some of my 'in match' questions and you'll see I'm just an interested novice)
Because Hughes didn't think anything of it at the time and also was aware he had played a part in the scuffle? Watched it a couple of times, genuinely looks like Wilson makes contact with the eye area, but he certainly doesn't gouge him.
<div class="bbp-reply-author">dantsw13
<div class="bbp-author-role">
<div class="">Member</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="bbp-reply-content">
DD – that’s bad luck losing another centre, after Henshaw. What’s your cover like?
</div>
Ireland Centers getting very thin on the ground, most likely option is Ringrose fast tracked back from injury, Scannell the Munster Center has travelled with squad for last 2 games so he is also an option. More leftfield options include moving Keith Earls or even Sexton and playing Joey Carbery at 10. Scraping the barrel a bit.
Mike Haley leaving Sale for Munster with the aim of representing Ireland. Good player and a loss for Sale.
No outcome from the review of the bloody tunnel.
"No outcome from the review of the bloody tunnel."
Both sides getting a letter written to them to remind them of standards of behaviour.
So sweet FA then?
Still no update on Saint Wilson’s citing.
Just theorising a bit - with the 6N table as is, when England play Ireland on the 17th they've not only got to win, but win by a 25pt difference to take the title?
80
Depends if Scotland beat Ireland.
Well it’s theoretically possible.
Freeeeeeedoooommmmm!!!!! His actions DID NOT warrant a red card as the contact was light and fleeting and came about as he was attempting to grab his opponents shirt during an off the ball scuffle. Furthermore medical evidence was submitted to show his fingers are crooked due to a previous injury and are bent.
That bar steward Hughes attacked a cripple!!!!!
Thats good. If that had been a banning they might as well all off all games.
Good piece with Barclay on the BBC page, seems a thoroughly honest and likeable bloke.
Played annoyingly well too.....
Two welsh and a yank on comittee it was never in doubt!!
ex-Wales lock Olly Kohn,
Was he that big fat bloke who played once during an injury crisis?
Bear - yes. And a nice “rivalry on the pitch respect and dignity off it” counterweight to some of the nonsense flying around.
Lols @ duckman
Seems the right outcome to me.
We need him playing next week against Ireland, so I agree!
Eddie Jones says he will no longer use public transport as he was abused after the Scotland game...
I have just read that, while I think he has a brass neck being sensitive about remarks made by anybody in the media ( Sexton's parents remarks being particularly tasteless) he should be able to travel/ have a life. The CCTV on the train should looked at.
Too late to edit, but it appears transport police are looking at an incident on the Manchester to Euston train. But "sources" say they were Scotland fans. You will have to excuse me for being cynical about "sources" this last week or so.
So Eddie goes to a football match on the train and is supprised its a bit....thuggish....is he a bit stupid?
Meanwhile this is a shame for the lad. Hope he recovers soon
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43232686
He went to Manchester on the train. From Edinburgh.
He went there to be the guest of SAF, at a football match. I'm going to hypothesize that a/ there won't have been many Chelsea (or that many Man U) fans on an Edinburgh train; and b/ it doesn't say it was thuggish, it says HE was physically and verbally abused.
Typical rugger boy anti-football remark again.
So if he was abused on the train to Manchester from Edinburgh, and you ARE alluding the people giving him stick were Scottish, lets be clear. I then have one question; why was it reported on the second part of his journey and transport police were waiting to interview people ( no charges mind) at Euston?
Typical deflecting away from a gubbing sore loser remark.
Do we have to turn everything on this thread into a national war?
Can we all take a while to read Barclays interview on the BBC.
It would appear that the players are far more tolerant of each other than the supporters. This thread gets ruined by the continual bickering.
Do we really need to know what nationality the abuser was, they was a human being abusing another human being.
Obviously I want my team to win but I hope that I can also appreciate the other team, especially some of the players who I've been fortunate to watch play in the AP, who again come across as normal people who are thoroughly professional and deserving of success.
It doesnt matter. A man was physically and verbally abused by some drunk people on a train. HIs high profile no doubt helped to make him a focus. Its nasty, regardless of who the target was, and what the thugs nationality is.
I said it before, there was booing at Murrayfield during EJ’s interview, England players arrival on the pitch, and of replays/shots including Farrel. It’d be an easy assumption - although is is an assumption - that those boos came from Scottish and not English fans. Thats help fuel this fire.
We don’t have to have a national war on here, be we could do well to help Rugby not become Football in a supporters perspective, as could Gavin Hastings who should no better and should consider his words better in future. Thats also helped fuel the fire. Eddie hasn’t helped by raising it again though in time with this incident.
Given the way Eddie Jones shoots his mouth off in the media, verbal abuse seems like repaying his loan to the world. Physical is different.
Booing? Well in the stadium it doesn’t bother me, but down the pub after the match I would expect and from all nations to be buying each other pints.
And given the lack of crowd segregation, I think there are fewer problems than folk are making out.
The abuse is not good and hopefully btp can have a word. EJ does shoot his mouth of.
As for the booing it's always happened, maybe not booing but a wall of noise. Remember Peter Dodds saying he blocked it out and focused on the telephone pole. He even said it was odd kicking at international level to silence.
Considering how high passions run this thread is well tempered and good.
Rugby allways has and needs a pantomime villain. In the calcutta cup game at Murrayfield its always Farrell. At the cabbage patch its usually Hogg
I dunno, I’d normally have sympathy for someone on the end of abuse whatever form it took. Jones garners a bit less sympathy from me - I imagine he can probably take a ribbing but maybe this time it went further than that. [VictimBlaming]If he wasn’t such an arsehole sometimes...[/VictimBlaming] 🙂
Well in the stadium it doesn’t bother me, but down the pub after the match I would expect and from all nations to be buying each other pints.
No ****ing way I’d be buying a Scotcher a beer. I’d never see it back again.
you couldn't handle a decent pint anyway. we don't serve shandy
I think you’re getting your national stereotypes mixed up TeeJ.
you couldn’t handle a decent pint anyway. we don’t serve shandy
Since when was Tennants classed as decent? 😉
Half pints for DD I believe. 😉
Technically never met DD of course - just going on Stoner’s write up of him.
And from Stoner’s point of view everyone’s tiny.
That would be a good point if it hadn't come from you Kryton. Bearing in mind your mod deleted rant after you beat Wales last year ( heck, even THM told you to delete it.) and that was after you had won. I don't think you are in a position to preach to anybody, and just see it as an example of your double standards.
By the way; it is know not no.
Video on the Beeb...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43240056
Largely looks some blokes being dicks, calling him a bald c**t.
Touche on the attitude front Duckman, i acknowledge your words. I am however in a different place of life now but appreciate and acknowledge how compared to the incident you quote it appears hypocritical.
Btw, im right. Its “no doubt” not “know doubt” 😉
Give me a hug kryters...