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Ronnie Biggs, infamous train robber and serial runner awayer (as i understand it)
is being refused parole.
he was one of a gang who stole £2.6m from a train in the 60s. then spent life on the run.
i dont want to come across all doe eyed, but it strikes me, thats a really romantic crime, no one got hurt, its what stories are made of.
and they wont let the bugger out of prison, even though his bones are breaking under thier own weight and he can barely look after himself.
yet them there thug teenagers who go around killing and torturing each other get out by the time they are in thier late thirties?
'orrible pieces of work like the ex boss off RBS (his name escapes me) walk off with more money than that as payment for thier part in destroying the economy.
praps you dont agree, but i fail to see the justice!
wise words.
People were hurt in the great train robbery.
Myself I think he should stay in jail - he has orchestrated a media campaign to get out. He only returned to britain for free healthcare. Let him get that inside while he does his sentence. He fits non of the criteria for release on parole.
Isn't a condition of parole that the offender needs to show remorse - Biggs doesn't
didn't one of the guards die as a result of the beating they dished out within a year of it taking place??
maybe people were hurt, Beeb website wasnt especially detailed, and thats what i was basing my thoughts on.
if people got hurt, he can stay there.
taking life deserves life, and not this "parole in a few years" life
throw away the key life
Yes one of the guards was struck on the head and jossed it.
If I get a fined for doing 31 in a 30 zone then "old ronnie" can do his bird as well.
If he meets the parole criteria next time around then I am sure British justice with prevail and he will be set free to make a few bob from the red tops.
It was a brutal attack
I don't think he died of the injuries but he was certainly brain damaged from the hiding they gave him. So hardly victim-less.
He's a criminal who spent years on the run, failing to do the time for his crime. Let him rot in jail. Life's tough isn't it, but sometimes the things you do catch up with you. It's time he learnt that you don't get let off for being an old decrepit scumbag.
fair enough. i didnt know that
thoughts corrected!
I understand a guard was attacked and hit on the head with an iron bar brought along for that purpose, I think however he died of a non related injury (cancer, something like that)
I'm pretty much on the side of leave him there. He's spent a life on the run, and as others have said, only came back because of the NHS treatment he'd get. I think the argument that there are other criminals more violent let out doesn't really hold much water, just because they're out means somehow he gets to go free? makes little sense to me...
uplink - MemberIsn't a condition of parole that the offender needs to show remorse - Biggs doesn't
This is the key point - however the parole board did agree him for parole despite him not showing remorse - Home secretary stopped it
I knew that TJ - I just saw it as the Home Secretary correcting their error
Seems unjust that the guard suffers physical and psycological trauma and eventually dies as a result when Mr Biggs in enjoying himself in Rio. And then comes back to receive free health care at the point of delivery - pah, pull the plug.
Its days like today that restore my faith in justice as Michael Shields (the guy who threw a paving slab on an innocent Bulgarian waiters head) was also refused a pardon :thumbsupforjackstraw:
biggs did a runner and goaded/gloated over the system for years in Brazil (including having a child to avoid deportation) and had no remorse at all or guilt until he required health care he could no longer afford. I am struggling to think of a less deserving case for parole frankly and I am a bleeding heart liberal
romantic crime indeed, what a pile of codswallop. No crime is romantic.
He committed a crime, he's serving his sentence, leave him there.
Lanesra - Micheal Sheilds is innocent
Jack Straw, The European Court of Human Rights, two Bulgarian Courts and myself would disagree with you TJ
a condition of parole that the offender needs to show remorse
I don't really understand this - you can get let out earlier if you lie than if you tell the truth?
Also, this wouldn't be a home secretary ignoring the advice of legal experts just avoid looking bad in the tabloids because of the high level of public interest would it? Nah, that wouldn't happen.
I thought someone else admitted to throwing the paving slab in the michael shields incident? I could be wrong though.
It's only right the Straw considers public opinion - that's his job
He also looks at lenient sentencing etc.
I don't really understand this - you can get let out earlier if you lie than if you tell the truth?
I think you have to convince a prison psychologist, and they are pretty expert in spotting lying scumbags.
It's only right the Straw considers public opinion - that's his job
No, it's very wrong. There should be a seperation of powers.
[i]I thought someone else admitted to throwing the paving slab in the michael shields incident? I could be wrong though. [/i]
Rock/Brick and yes they did but it wasn't accepted as evidence. 😯
porterclough - MemberI don't really understand this - you can get let out earlier if you lie than if you tell the truth?
To some extent that is correct - some of our longest serving prisoners are those who were locked up as miscarriages of justice - they refuse to admit their guilt they don't get parole
TJ how do you know Shields is innocent?
Whew I'm agreeing with TJ and Jack Straw on the same day. I'm obviously not well.
To some extent that is correct - some of our longest serving prisoners are those who were locked up as miscarriages of justice - they refuse to admit their guilt they don't get parole
If they admit to being a witch and repent they go free, if not they must be burnt for the sake of their souls... good to see we've moved on.
Of course I don't for sure - but there was a lot in the press including others confessing to the crime, witnesses that say it wasn't him and so on.
The ECHR judgement was not on the facts of the case but on the procedure.
However I don't think a pardon is right.
[i]biggs did a runner and goaded/gloated over the system for years in Brazil (including having a child to avoid deportation) and had no remorse at all or guilt until he required health care he could no longer afford. I am struggling to think of a less deserving case for parole frankly and I am a bleeding heart liberal
Sums it up.
I remember the gloating. iirc the cheeky ****er even glamourised his crime with various publicity stunts (singing with the Sex Pistols?)
The establishment were never going to let him go once they got him back and quite rightly imo.
I think we did this some time back..But to repeat sentiments from above - he's showing no sign of remorse & only came back to the UK when he became unwell & homesick..
He deserves to spend more time in clink for that terrible record with the Sex Pistols alone.
It's only right the Straw considers public opinion - that's his job
Is that like taking a Straw poll?
IGMC...
The only people who have said Shields never did it, were his mates and some guy who was paid to make a "confession".
All the rest of the non partisan witnesses placed him at the scene commiting the crime
[i]and some guy who was paid to make a "confession".[/i]
And you know this for sure?
I wondered how long it would take for this to crop up...He should serve his sentence, be paroled etc in the normal way.
I can't believe the brass neck of his son, lying to the media.
He's already had 60+ odd years of freedom has he not?
"Ronnie Biggs was doin' time until he done a bunk..."
Spent a good deal of time livin' it up in Rio, laughing at the British Plod. Who's laughing now Ronnie?
Can't do the time don't do the crime.
Biggs and his mates were serial offenders, nasty bastards by all accounts. Despite all the efforts to glamourise what they did it was a nasty squalid crime, and his life subsequently has been a nasty squalid round of living off his "Reputation" and freeloading. Hes earned his time so let him have it.
If biggs had served his time instead of doin a runner part way through his sentance then he would have been out by now, and would have been able to spend his last day's with his family. As it is if he want's to spend it with them their going to have to sit in chokey with him.
sod him. let him rot in jail. I really dont care about him one bit. Dont home crying to mummy Ronnie, you're getting what you deserve.
porterclough -
No, it's very wrong. There should be a seperation of powers
Well said that man, the people making serious decisions on individual sentencing shouldn't be worried about how it'll play in the media, they should be doing it on the facts of the case alone.
Shields family just then on C4 news bleating about justice, pathetic.
No mention of the guy who his son nearly killed
Probably the most unbiased piece on the case http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1495692/Innocent-gentle-giant-Or-remorseless-thug-guilty-of-attempted-murder.html
How exactly did 'the people' make the individual decision?
Straw needs to factor in public concerns when making these sort of decisions, he does it when looking into apparent lenient sentences too.
The main reason Brady & Hindley were never released was in no small part due to public opinion over the case - & long may it be that way
[b]...and they wont let the bugger out of prison, even though his bones are breaking under thier own weight and he can barely look after himself.[/b]
Good. Let the f*cker rot inside.
Lanesra - nice link. Dunno what to believe now
Uplink wrote:
Straw needs to factor in public concerns when making these sort of decisions
Why? This thread shows that the public makes their decision based on half-truths and half the facts, then applies knee jerk emotion as a topping.
Whether you like it or not that's what happens - live with it
The home secretary makes the decision, not the public but he [u][b]factors in[/b][/u] public opinion he doesn't have a quick show of hands
🙄
Lanesra - nice link. Dunno what to believe now
I like your readiness to consider other evidence but I've got to ask, TJ - what were you basing your previous opinion on if that article's swayed you? The family's poster campaign, some low opinion held about a foreign court or what?
johners - general media stuff. Nowt in particular with the families claims - I remember at the time of the court case there was much doubt expressed
**** him , let him rot , i dont give a s$%t if he snuffs it in jail, he only came back cos he was ill.
This post has previous - FFS pay attention people!
http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/good-old-ronnie-biggs
[i]This post has previous - FFS pay attention people![/i]
2 months ago they hadn't made a decision.
That Telegraph is article is very interesting.
This post has previous - FFS pay attention people!
All posts have previous
If he stops being a stubborn old git and 'repents'then its all fine and dandy and he will be released.
Just shows that all these murderes and rapist etc are not stupid... Judge "so then do you think what you did was bad?" Dodgy horrible scum "Oh yes judge I realise what I did was wrong, and I'm so sorrry" Judge "ok then off you go...."
Regarding the Shields case. Imagine, if you will, the opposite scenario. Bulgarian lout drops paving stone on innocent scousers head. Bulgarian lout sentenced to 10 years in Walton Jail. On appeal he is allowed to serve the rest of his sentence in Bulgaria. After a short time the Bulgarian Home Secretary announces a full pardon. Can you picture the outrage in Liverpool? Doesn't bear thinking about.
Regarding the Shields case. Imagine, if you will, the opposite scenario. Bulgarian lout drops paving stone on innocent scousers head. Bulgarian lout sentenced to 10 years in Walton Jail. On appeal he is allowed to serve the rest of his sentence in Bulgaria. After a short time the Bulgarian Home Secretary announces a full pardon. Can you picture the outrage in Liverpool? Doesn't bear thinking about.
Whats the Shields case got to do with Biggs?
Oh, Lanresa, of course!
regardless interesting reading in that telegraph article. I liked the bit where all his mates apparently popped into his room throughout the night to get their phones, check for a party etc and saw him asleep. Its just a shame they all didn't have to a do a few months for attempting to pervert the course of justice.
regardless interesting reading in that telegraph article. I liked the bit where all his mates apparently popped into his room throughout the night to get their phones, check for a party etc and saw him asleep. Its just a shame they all didn't have to a do a few months for attempting to pervert the course of justice
Maybe and maybe not. Again I am not defending Shields and the fact that he is still behind bars in the UK indicates to me that he is likely guilty however I have read alternative explanations by witnesses who "popped" into his room that night and when they are explained using different language they are actually far more plausible.
The Telegraph article is slightly biased and has nothing to do with a thread on Biggs other than a certain person bringing it up.
The Telegraph article is slightly biased
Which bit is biased?
From the comfort of my armchair I can confidently state that they are a bunch of horrible yobs and the pity is that they are not all banged up.
Shields, then set about teaching Mr Georgiev a lesson in what English teenagers abroad are wont to do when drunk: adminstering vicious beatings.
This a clear criticism of British youth in general and a bit of a generalisation do you agree?
Thompson said he did not know Shields, despite the fact that he had stayed in a room next to his at the hotel
Apparently he had never met Thompsom and I am not sure why it would be unreasonable not to know the person in the next room as the Telegraph points out?
what does this mean either they are or they arent.kind of cousins
Other articles I have read paint a different picture. Apparently he was taken from the hotel to the scene, forced to wear clothes that werent his but witness claimed the assailant was wearing, chained to a radiator whilst witnesses were paraded past then put in a line up with only 2 other men, both under 6ft (Shields is over 6ft) he was the only one with fair hair and the only one wearing a white T shirt!
No attempt was made to gather forensic evidence which could have linked him with the crime.
Jack Straw has refused to release him and I have no axe to grind either way. I dont think public opinion should force his hand.
Biggs dying in prison? Justice is served.
Brilliant.
I'd love to see all this new evidence. I bet its 3,000 scousers all saying they saw Shields lying in bed reading a book.
Even if you look on Liverpool football forums most of there fans are uncomfortable with the whole thing and think he did it.
The funny thing is if Straw doesn't grant the pardon, Shields will have to admit he did it otherwise he wont get parole next year (same as Biggs)
Your obsession with all things Liverpool seems odd.
Werent you taught a lesson when you were humiliated on here some time ago and you threatened to "cripple" somebody.
Biggs now has MRSA
As someone on Radio 4 pointed out the other day, if he'd gone to prison when he was convicted he'd be out by now and able to live his retirement in piece. As it was he got to be free through his younger years (30s, 40s, 50s) and had a good time. He now has to do the time he in effect 'put off'. Good deal if you ask me. He should stay in prison till he's done his time.
cynic-al - MemberBiggs now has MRSA
IIRC he was screened for MRSA on arrival at hospital and found to be carrying it - thus was isolated to prevent him giving it to others.
30% of the population are MRSA carriers