I manage a team that includes about 8 van drivers. If one of them was behaving like that I would want to know about it.
Based on what you have said, the driving would probably be a serious warning followed up with some additional training. But the behaviour afterwards would probably be dismissal. I would have no issue with sacking someone for being aggressive and racist.
I wouldn’t want someone to lose their job just for driving like a ****
I would and I would expect to fire anyone driving one of our vans that badly. There's no place for inattentive half-wits in charge of 3 tonnes of vehicle. (Close pass - inattention stopping to argue and hurl racist abuse on camera - half-witted).
few years ago reported an LGV driver fir being an idiot, sales department answered the email,and said it would be passed on, so thought just ignored, a week later Health and safety manager from the company emailed, apologised, and stated driver had been taken off driving, was being retrained and had been disciplined, and all their drivers suddenly drove with consideration to other road users.
Topically this just popped up in my inbox from the HSE
t is estimated that one third of all road traffic collisions (RTCs) in Britain involve someone driving as part of their job......
......Although the risks associated with driving cannot be completely controlled, an employer has a responsibility to take all reasonable steps to manage these risks and do everything reasonably practicable to protect people from harm in the same way as they would in the workplace.
So while people are suggesting its somehow correct to inform the police but somehow unfair to notify their employer ... how is the employer supposed to manage their workforce safely if nobody tells them whats happening out there?
Was there a "How's my driving?" sticker on the back of the van? If so report to both police and company
I'm so sorry to read this, OP. Not a pleasant experience in any way and you're absolutely right to take this up with the police.
“*ing Jewish *”
This has upset me more than anything else. I sincerely hope that you get a resolution and the guy in question gets his anti-semitic dues.
Police first - makes it simple for the company to understand action is needed rather than mess you about and promise a "talking to".
Even if the company fire him, he'll jump into another company's van the next week. So another reason for Police.
I wouldn’t want someone to lose their job just for driving like a ****
Whereas I would really want him to lose his job and be prosecuted by the police too.
No excuses for that sort of a) dangerous b) threatening and c) racist behaviour.
If he was my member of staff I would suspend him immediately and investigate it as gross misconduct.
Was there a “How’s my driving?” sticker on the back of the van?
I wouldn’t want someone to lose their job just for driving like a **** (there’s millions of em out there), so police would be if the company didn’t respond correctly.
I absolutely do want him to lose his job as a driver if that's how he treats other humans while doing it.
I absolutely do want him to lose his job ...
Oh ffs will you lot please read the rest of the ****ing thread.
A retracted statement quoted 3 times. Jeez
Definitely report it. I have done it a few times with responses from no response to full investigation and report back with full apologies etc. If nothing else it may make a difference to some other unfortunate and modify the gus behaviour, we would hope
Oh ffs will you lot please read the rest of the **** thread.
A retracted statement quoted 3 times. Jeez
I have read the thread, all of it.
That's still my opinion.
On my (mostly extremely enjoyable) ride on Monday, I was treated extremely patiently by many, drivers. So it is possible. Vast majority treated me acceptably and didn't make me fear for me safety. Couple of dozen treated me very poorly - so about par IME.
What has me riled, and drove me to comment, was the *three* HGVs including one artic that overtook me and then immediately (within 100m) turned left across my path into their sites.
They knew I was there, they didn't kill me to death, but they knew they were turning off a few seconds later. A few seconds later. THREE OF THEM, at different sites. Despite me doing all the right things re clothing, positioning, obeying traffic rules.
They chose to do that, and if they were a little wrong about their speed, or mine, or other drivers actions, or the low sun dazzled them or me, they risked killing me.
For a few seconds spent waiting safely behind me.
So yes, if I want to emphasise the fact that I think drivers who take needless risks with others' safety should Do Some Other Job, I will.
I’m surprised no one else has pointed this out, I’m not sure how smart it is to tell the police you thumped the side of the van - you lost the high ground at that point and escalated the incident. If the company point out it is dented you may not be doing yourself any favours.
I wouldn’t want someone to lose their job just for driving like a ****
No? One of our logistics team drove like a dick last year; windscreen fogged up, no seatbelt, not showing trade-plates, and driving too fast, and because of the first item, he didn’t see another member of the team had stopped behind a parked van because of an oncoming articulated vehicle and drove into the back of her. He didn’t touch the brakes, (no airbag went off), wrote off three vehicles, and nearly killed our teammate in the stationary vehicle! He maintained he was driving below 30mph, the damage caused indicated closer to 50, and a third team driver following saw what happened, and confirmed he never used his brakes.
So, should he have kept his job for driving like a dick? I have photos of two of the wrecked vehicles, the third was the stationary contractors van that was hit, just for confirmation.
Sat at traffic lights at T junction at bottom of hill behind an SUV on red. Lights turn green:
SUV starts moving as a lorry comes from the right, downhill at full whack. SUV sees and stops just in time. I reported it straightaway to the company.
Driver relieved of his services the next day. Hopefully he won't work again in that industry. At least he'll think twice about jumping lights.
Sometimes its worth doing.
I would certainly be reporting it to both the police and company.
If it was "just" the close pass/nearly knocking you off, I would expect the company in question probably gets a few of those these days (if they have a reasonable sized fleet) so there is probably a process, either official or unofficial to deal with it. Probably involving a conversation, an official warning if appropriate, and some retraining.
However, getting out of a company van and threatening harm to a member of the public, AND using hate/racist/antisemetic language in the process is without any doubt at all gross misconduct, and my money would be on him getting sacked on the spot (especially if there was undisputable video evidence of the entire exchange).
I would be waiting to hear back from the police about what they intended to do about it - and probably wait until they had taken a statement from him before informing the company. Otherwise, as others have said, you allow him to get-his-story-straight before talking to the police.
When reporting it to the company, I would be sure to let them know that the incident has been reported to the police, and sent to several anti-hate organisations. This is effectively backing the company into a corner..... if they've got any sense they'll realize they have to sack him immediately - which is exactly what he deserves.
maurice
I’m surprised no one else has pointed this out, I’m not sure how smart it is to tell the police you thumped the side of the van – you lost the high ground at that point and escalated the incident. If the company point out it is dented you may not be doing yourself any favours.
Yeah, nah. The fact that he was demonstrably so close that this was possible, let alone required to alert him to the OPs presence so that he didn't get crushed and killed, supports the OPs case rather than harms it.
Poly has it. Police only.
m surprised no one else has pointed this out, I’m not sure how smart it is to tell the police you thumped the side of the van – you lost the high ground
Presumably it's obvious in the video.
I’m surprised no one else has pointed this out, I’m not sure how smart it is to tell the police you thumped the side of the van – you lost the high ground at that point and escalated the incident. If the company point out it is dented you may not be doing yourself any favours.
Just out of interest, do you regularly ride in traffic?
Just out of interest, do you regularly ride in traffic?
+1
Agreed
I have read the thread, all of it.
That’s still my opinion.
And it's also Dezb's opinion. You haven't actually read the rest of the thread have you? This bit in particular:
Agree with this too. Dunno what I was going on about in my original post. I’m really not that nice normally.
Blimey, someone understands English. Thank you! 😀
At my last company, transport took dash claims seriously, a couple of drivers lost their jobs- one as a result of footage from the dash cam in the cab.
Maybe think twice about Israel Start Up Nation replica kit now.
I wouldn’t want someone to lose their job just for driving like a ****
Dez has been kidnapped. We need to find where he’s being held!
+1 for footage to the police, find out what they wish to do before complaint to company
I would want him sacked. this is a person using his vehicle as a weapon
Just out of interest, do you regularly ride in traffic?
Yes I do ride in traffic, regularly.
I have never "angrily" hit a vehicle as the OP described, because I have never had time to get angry from a close pass while I was still in reach. If I have lashed out it has been instinctive. That's what concerns me with their description of thumping the van angrily. The title of the thread says "Road rage", who raged first?
There's a whole lot of jumping on the outrage bus here and strong opinions without a video. But let's not get the facts get in the way of a lynching....
Yeah, nah. The fact that he was demonstrably so close that this was possible, let alone required to alert him to the OPs presence so that he didn’t get crushed and killed, supports the OPs case rather than harms it.
Let's hope the video supports that.
Reported to the police yesterday via their online form. Lets see what happens.
Re. the thumping:
I think I banged twice, once when he squeezed past and again as we stopped. 2nd one anger/adrenaline and yes probably shouldn't have happened.
Just checked the video. Here's a still of when he comes into frame:
https://imgur.com/a/C0j4SCi
Note my positioning with the island & parked cars. I had not moved out to primary, there were parked cars behind me as well. I just stayed on the same line instead of moving in to the curb.
Just after that insanely close pass, he swerves left (!) at which point your hear a faint bang and I swerve sharply. This is me panicking & thumping the side, although if you didn't know better it seems like him hitting me slightly (he didn't).
We both stop and I bang again, you can hear me mutter "are you insane!" (not loud enough for him to hear) and him already gobbing off from inside.
Edit: Fixed the image (I hope)
without being awkward its a bit blurry to make much out
I once had a van driver swerve towards me on a cycle path cos I looked at him.
Literally, just looking to check if he'd seen me cos he appeared to be just about to cut me up.
Some people are just mental 😛
It's nuts. I was going fastish at that point (guess a bit under 20mph) and he comes flying past. There are cars stopped at the crossing a few meters past that point as the lights have only just turned green, so the whole pass was entirely pointless anyway.
without being awkward its a bit blurry to make much out
I know sorry. Can't show much more without showing the side of his van with logos.
Here's the place: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.5081027,-2.2534331,3a,75y,211.5h,75.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sIjLxCfrYIbr647HiLxgsZA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Now imagine there's a line of cars parked just next to the yellow lines. Look right to see cars parked beyond the bus stop. I stayed roughly a little left of centre of the lane (IMO, the correct position in those circumstances and at that speed).
I’m surprised no one else has pointed this out, I’m not sure how smart it is to tell the police you thumped the side of the van – you lost the high ground at that point and escalated the incident. If the company point out it is dented you may not be doing yourself any favours.
Van's don't actually have feelings you know. Squashy humans on bikes on the other hand do.
This is part of the problem cyclists face, people equate "you thumped my van" with "you nearly killed me with your driving". They aren't remotely equal. No cyclist has ever hurt a van driver by banging on their van.
Drivers worry about being inconvenienced by cyclists. Cyclists worry about being killed by drivers
This is part of the problem cyclists face, people equate “you thumped my van” with “you nearly killed me with your driving”. They aren’t remotely equal. No cyclist has ever hurt a van driver by banging on their van.
Being a cyclist does not makes us above the law because we are more vulnerable. Thumping a stationary vehicle will always elicit a response. If you and others cannot see that this may not go down all that well with the police then it is clearly a waste of my time trying to explain it to you.
Being a cyclist does not makes us above the law because we are more vulnerable. Thumping a stationary vehicle will always elicit a response. If you and others cannot see that this may not go down all that well with the police then it is clearly a waste of my time trying to explain it to you.
Exactly how strong are you? Even when I was in my peak condition and training in martial arts 5 times a week I very much doubt I would even be able to make a mark on a moving vehicle.
I could probably dent a car if I stopped, got off the bike, set my stance, and punched the centre of a panel. Fairly good chance I'd bust my hand though.
So, if we can assume we are not damaging property, exactly what law are we breaking by banging on a car?
It wasn’t a stationary vehicle though, it was moving, far too closely to a person on a bike.
This is part of the problem cyclists face, people equate “you thumped my van” with “you nearly killed me with your driving”. They aren’t remotely equal. No cyclist has ever hurt a van driver by banging on their van.
Drivers worry about being inconvenienced by cyclists. Cyclists worry about being killed by drivers
+1
Being a cyclist does not makes us above the law because we are more vulnerable. Thumping a stationary vehicle will always elicit a response. If you and others cannot see that this may not go down all that well with the police then it is clearly a waste of my time trying to explain it to you
What a lot of bollocks. Get some perspective. Really.
Exactly how strong are you? Even when I was in my peak condition and training in martial arts 5 times a week I very much doubt I would even be able to make a mark on a moving vehicle.
I could probably dent a car if I stopped, got off the bike, set my stance, and punched the centre of a panel. Fairly good chance I’d bust my hand though.
So, if we can assume we are not damaging property, exactly what law are we breaking by banging on a car?
Read the thread mate, he hit the van again in anger while it was stopped. Vans especially are easy to dent. If you can't dent one as a grown adult I'd be surprised.
It wasn’t a stationary vehicle though, it was moving, far too closely to a person on a bike.
Again, wrong. Read the thread ffs.
I thumped the side of his van, partly instinctive “fending off” partly angry, yes I know I probably shouldn’t have. Anyway, he stops,
Sounds like he stops the van afterwards to me. You don't "fend off" a stationary vehicle.
Re. the thumping:
I think I banged twice, once when he squeezed past and again as we stopped. 2nd one anger/adrenaline and yes probably shouldn’t have happened.
I'm going to sign out of this discussion now, too many people who can't read. A waste of resources.
Read the thread mate
I did. I didn't say anything that indicated I hadn't. Maybe you should have read my reply.
I’m going to sign out of this discussion now, too many people who can’t read. A waste of resources.
I think you're signing out because you're talking bollocks and everyone has called you on it but whatever.
he hit the van again in anger while it was stopped.
What made him angry?
Vans especially are easy to dent.
Shame they don't get punched more often then. Porr ickle vannywans
Even if it's stopped after the first thump, thumping the side of the van will alert the driver in case you're in the blindspot and he is attempting to park....
It's not like the op caved the side of the van in with a D Lock and ripped the mirror off.
As far as I'm concerned as a company van driver, if you're close enough to thump it whilst moving, he's assulted your fist with his 3 tons of van.
Re. the thumping:
I think I banged twice, once when he squeezed past and again as we stopped. 2nd one anger/adrenaline and yes probably shouldn’t have happened.I’m going to sign out of this discussion now, too many people who can’t read. A waste of resources.
You probably won't read this in that case, but the regardless of whether he hit the vehicle once or twice while moving or not won't affect the Police's view on the earlier incident (dangerous driving) or the latter anti-semetic insult. Many years ago a driver ended up in court after an incident with me and tried to use a similar defence that the starting point was me damaging their wing mirror (I didn't as witnesses testified). They still ended up in court and were sentenced to a suspended sentence.
