Mustn't respond,
mustn't respond,
mustn't respond....
Anyhow, interesting article in the G today from Owen Jones. He's hoping for a hung parliament so that a Lib Lab pact could have another stab at electoral reform, something he thinks unlikely if Labour were to win outright.
I'd be happy with that.
Mustn’t respond,
mustn’t respond,
mustn’t respond….
I think it is fair to say that posting that ^^ is very much responding.
But in such a way which actually betrays the fact that you can't explain why the Tories are ethnic nationalists for supporting brexit but Starmer isn't an ethnic nationalist for supporting brexit.
Well to be fair how could you?
Sunak campaigned for Brexit, he wanted it.
Starmer campaigned against Brexit, he warned against it.
It’s happened.
Now we need someone to sort the shit out. Fun job. I wouldn’t want it.
Deciding not to fight the next election on a rejoin platform is not the same as backing Brexit.
It is exactly the same. The end result is no different. Why do you think it is different?
I am starting to realise that for some people the problem isn't Tory policies and values at all. It turns out that Tory policies and values are fine just as long as they are supported by the Labour Party. It is some sort of weird football type tribalism.
And then they wonder why voters are so cynical.
Are we back to you responding by saying that you are not going to respond Kelvin?
Deciding not to fight the next election on a rejoin platform is exactly the same as backing Brexit.
If you don't agree then perhaps explain why. Responding by saying you are not going to respond is pretty pointless.
So we're back to a long spiel about how you're not going to respond. Jolly good.
https://labour.org.uk/press/keir-starmer-sets-out-labours-5-point-plan-to-make-brexit-work/
[ deleted ]
It is exactly the same
For someone into politics you seem to know very little about it 🙂
Well I might not know much but still enough I reckon to understand that:
"Keir Starmer sets out Labour’s 5-point plan to Make Brexit Work"
doesn't sound like Starmer isn't supporting brexit. I suspect most voters would also see it like that.
Edit: I have just realised that the Labour Party website even uses capital letters in "Make Brexit Work", it is almost as if they want it to be a three word Labour election slogan!🙂
As we've said before, Starmer is in an inescapable position.
It's like football fans screaming SHOOT at the striker when he cam see that he has limited options and needs to execute a complex play to actually make an attempt on goal. You can't always slot it in the top corner from the edge of the box.
he can see that he has limited options
I am not criticising Starmer's position on brexit! I am just pointing that it is now fundamentally exactly the same as the Tories - the UK isn't going to rejoin the EU and, let's "Make Brexit Work".
It is some sort of weird football type tribalism.
I refer you to my post yesterday about this very subject. I have a centrist friend (not binners BTW) who doesn't stop banging on about Labour needing to replace the tories, but when I ask her what the point is if Labour won't do anything different her answer is 'who cares, it's just better under Labour!'. Personally I think it's worse. Much as I hate the tories I at least know not to expect anything different. Under a Labour govt though all I feel is frustration and disappointment.
https://twitter.com/J_MoAGoGo/status/1658815528817836034?t=4cHt04H6YvUJlTl0fO6heg&s=19
These dirty bastards.
Because they can't get inflation under control - it's now your fault you greedy peasants.
I don't know how they dare.
They wreck the economy between them, increase the money for interest income and asset holders then turn around and blame the worker for inflation that was caused by external influences.
Neoliberalism at its finest.
Andrew Bailey earns 575,000.
Heres something for your other shoulder. Balance you out a bit…
More pictures! I guess they help if you find words too difficult.
As we’ve said before, Starmer is in an inescapable position.
So was Corbyn. This wasn't recognised by many people on here.
Let's face it Starmer is given slack to be as right wing as he wants to by the same people that simply didn't want Corbyn in power.
They believe the person is the problem not the policies.
Which is why a thread on Tory outrage is perfect because you don't really see discussion about Starmer pushing back on Tory ideals.
Okay that's fine - but don't ever expect change to problems intrinsic to the current system.
We've moved from being a Tory is the worst thing ever to Starmer needs to be a bit of a righty to gain power; to yeah Starmer is correct to keep things in private hands.
The slavish support of Capitalism delivering fail after fail is mind-blowing.
I know it's not going to happen but I would absolutely piss myself if Sunak tried to take us back in somehow. Liberals would be in tatters.
Oh and before you start Binners - bog off, I want to discuss politics not exclude leading politicians from debate just because you can't cope with a bit of criticism of your Centrist pin ups.
Absolute genius idea to send Green out to defend the governments sewage policy....
https://twitter.com/itvpeston/status/1658952110417891332?t=ZZK86g0ECNFXQ1cJZTkvuQ&s=19
Polio, rickets, outside toilets, and sub-50 life expectancy used to be the norm, but for some reason snowflake society finds them less acceptable these days.
Swimming around in shit never did me any harm!
Anyway... this Rishi Sunak bloke? The one the thread is meant to be about?... this is a good article about by Rafeal Behr about Sunaks weakness and thus his inability, or unwillingness, to take on the utter headbangers, led by Braverman, This means he's totally snookered himself as he can't do anything that he actually needs to do because they'll all soil their petticoats in outrage.
So Suella Braverman and the 'National Conservative' far right nutjobs are already effectively running the country, and doesn't she bloody well know it! PM in all but name.
Absolute genius idea to send Green out to defend the governments sewage policy….
Well the Tories are obviously very worried about this:
LABOUR party leader Sir Keir Starmer has signalled he supports the nationalisation of water utilities as the fallout from the floods continues.
The New Journal asked Mr Starmer what should happen now. “Water should be run in the best interests of the environment and consumers – not shareholders,” a spokesperson for the Holborn and St Pancras MP and party leader said. “Labour believe that common ownership can deliver that.”
He used common ownership to obfuscate his own inability to say nationalisation.
Anyone with half a brain knows there are no societal benefits to a monopolistic private water company.
The moronic economic position of a private company running the lifeblood of the nation.
Terrible state of affairs. We should now be grateful those same companies are putting a few quid in - which will cost us as bill payers as opposed to the government paying.
She warned the West should not work with China and that totalitarian regimes "don't tell the truth".
"We know what happens to the environment or world health under totalitarian regimes that don't tell the truth - you can't believe a word they say," Ms Truss said.
More than half of water bills in England help fund leading Chinese investment firms
The PM is treading the perilous path of indulging Suella Braverman and her allies on the Conservative hard right
Culture war nonsense is all Sunak has atm, he'll lean in to these loons hard, because any rebellion will leave him even weaker
Johnsons purge of the brexit doubters means theres no one sensible left
Rishi Sunak Makes Yet Another U-Turn As He Dumps Tory Pledge To Cut Immigration
Hiya,
Just a note today Rich tea has u-turned on immigration today and the pledge of below 200K. It is worth pointing out that net migration reached 750k last year this was by official channels and visa's, so the government in control of these or should be. Just to point out that last year the figures of those arriving by boats was 45K. Just pointing out the false narrative by this government and the media, because surely they should have more of a grip on the Visa's? Personally I think it's all crap and my family are refugees, so to say illegal in front of something where there is no legal route shows how this the Tory's are using to stir up support from the Right wing...
BR
JeZ
https://twitter.com/peston/status/1659041358135304196?s=46&t=1lK7Dw1b6RqGJyvufO-trQ
Combining Liz Trusses love of the Instagram photo opportunity with Johnsons urge to leave the country every time things get a bit sticky
I think accusations that Rishi has gone to Japan to improve his self esteem by making himself feel a bit taller for a few days are unfounded.
The truth is that he's still growing and hasn't reached his full height yet. Come to think of it... has anyone checked his birth certificate? He has the look and manner of an awkward 14 year old,
well I say 14, more like 13 and 3/4 really.
Suit was bought to fit him at 13 3/4 but he's had a growth spurt which explains why his trousers are now too short.
Rishi Sunak is the same height as Winston Churchill was. Which is a couple of inches shorter than Adolf Hitler, who lost World War Two btw.
There are so many things wrong with Rishi Sunak's politics, there's no need for racist and sexist pish like the above
Combining Liz Trusses love of the Instagram photo opportunity with Johnsons urge to leave the country every time things get a bit sticky
To be fair to Rishi, I'm not sure you can schedule a G7 meeting to evade difficult political situations at home. I think it's more that things are perpetually sticky in the Conservative death spiral.
The only thing I can't get past is that he sounds identical to Simon Bird in the Inbetweeners every time he opens his mouth.
So Suella Braverman and the ‘National Conservative’ far right nutjobs are already effectively running the country, and doesn’t she bloody well know it! PM in all but name.
Farage & the Brexit nutters effectively ran the previous couple of Tory administrations.
Did you read this link https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/rishi-sunak-makes-yet-another-u-turn-as-he-dumps-tory-immigration-pledge_uk_6465c0fae4b06749be11b03e
Rishi Sunak Makes Yet Another U-Turn As He Dumps Tory Pledge To Cut Immigration
His comments put him at odds with home secretary Suella Braverman, who earlier this week said overall immigration levels must fall.
Sunak’s immigration climbdown came just hours after it was confirmed he has dumped his Tory leadership pledge to close all of China’s Confucius Institutes in the UK.
The first paragraph puts him totally at odds with Suella Braverman and the last paragraph puts him totally at odds with Liz Truss https://news.sky.com/story/liz-truss-urges-rishi-sunak-to-describe-china-as-a-threat-to-uk-security-12882545
Suella Braverman is no more 'prime minister in all but name' than Nigel Farage was running the government when Boris Johnson was prime minister.
https://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/prediction_main.html
Probability of possible outcomes
Labour majority
92%
Lab minority
6%
No overall control
1%
Conservative majority
1%
The recent slow gain in Conservative fortunes did not continue in May, as Labour consolidated their lead over the Conservatives, which now stands at 16pc (compared with 15pc the month before). On these figures, Labour are still set for a landslide victory if there were a general election soon.
Don't worry, Labour, their various factions of supporters and the right wing press are perfectly capable of ****ing up that advantage.
Starmer is doing his best to give the pro europe parties the advantage 🙂 Even major unions are now coming out and saying that brexit is a disaster and so is labour policy on europe
Sunak might not be quite the saviour of the UK he was making out when bigging up his Eat Out To Help Out scheme...
Although that much was obvious to most people but I can see why he's suddenly upset about the whole WhatsApp messaging thing - Sunak's messages will probably show him ignoring all the advice and spending £1bn of public money on subsidising cafes.
There’s that and also the suggestion that WhatsApp was the main form of communication being used for the ‘Fast Track’ for dishing out multimillion pound PPE contracts to their mates, obviously to avoid oversight or scrutiny
So if Boris sets the precedent with all his WhatsApp messages then the inquiry will demand all the rest of the cabinets too. I’m sure they’ll fight tooth and nail to stop all that becoming public. Apparently the one with the most to fear from this is Michael Gove, which would explain why he’s been very quiet of late
From the Guardian link above:
Rishi Sunak is facing a barrage of criticism in the run-up to the official Covid-19 inquiry as a leading scientist attacks his “spectacularly stupid” Eat Out to Help Out scheme, which is believed to have caused a sudden rise in cases of the virus.
During the first Tory leadership contest Rishi Sunak strongly attacked Boris Johnson's handling of the Covid pandemic claiming that he had empowered scientists too much;
The Tory leadership contender said one of the government’s biggest mistakes was giving too much power to scientists and claimed the Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (Sage) edited its minutes to hide dissenting opinions.
“We shouldn’t have empowered the scientists in the way we did,” he said.
Sunak added it had been “wrong to scare people” during the pandemic with images such as posters showing Covid patients on ventilators.
When I pointed out that on here, and suggested that we were lucky that Rishi Sunak hadn't been PM during the lockdown period, I was told that he was simply making those claims to garner support for his leadership bid and it didn't mean anything.
What if WhatsApp messages suggest otherwise? Especially as in the Huffpost link above Sunak seems to be suggesting that he had his own spies informing him:
Sunak claimed Sage removed some opinions from its final minutes, but said a Treasury official would listen to the meetings and brief him on the omissions.
“The Sage people didn’t realise for a very long time that there was a Treasury person on all their calls,” he said.
tjagain
Full Member
Starmer is doing his best to give the pro europe parties the advantage 🙂 Even major unions are now coming out and saying that brexit is a disaster and so is labour policy on europe
So I provide a link by a reputable pollster who has done extensive research which shows that Labour has consolidated its huge lead over the Tories in the last month, and that it points to a Labour landslide general election victory should it be held under the present conditions, and your reaction is to yet again bang on about brexit and claim that Labour's policy on it is costing them support?
Do you think a Labour landslide is setting the bar too low?
I believe the polls that show this is an anti tory vote not a pro labour one and that labour becoming brexiteers will lose them significant votes. We saw this in the local elections, we see this in polling on brexit. Just wait until the campaign when the "two cheeks of the same arse" gets hammered by pro EU parties. All labour are doing is turning into moderate tories - leaving them wide open to be attacked from the left and from the pro EU parties.
We will see this poll lead slip a lot i believe - not so much that tories will gain votes but the greens, lib dems, SNP and welsh nationalists will all make gains and eat into the labour vote ( or in the case of the SNP lose far less than they could hve
When you listen to other voices its obvious and clear.
I know you have this huge blind spot over brexit but labour becoming enthusiastic brexiteers is a huge vote loser. Results and polls show this
I know you have this huge blind spot over brexit but labour becoming enthusiastic brexiteers is a huge vote loser. Results and polls show this
You are confusing me not wanting, like most people, to turn every political discussion into another tedious debate about brexit with me having a "huge blind spot".
Results and polls do not show that brexit has become "a huge vote loser" for Labour. Labour's stance on the EU undoubtedly loses them some support and undoubtedly gains them some support.
Whether it loses Labour more votes than it gains them is fairly irrelevant in context of their huge lead over the Tories which according to the latest poll, despite your dismissive attitude, suggests they are maintaining and even slightly consolidating.
Whether it loses Labour more votes than it gains them is fairly irrelevant in context of their huge lead over the Tories
While the sane amongst us hope that is true, if the anti-Tory vote gets split between Labour, Lib Dems, Greens and anyone else, FPTP means that it may not translate into seats Labour need to form a government.