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What is this obsession with separating every political individual out into their own thread?
Because every ****ing political thread comes back to the same few folks having the same ****ing argument about Starmer, pissing off people checking in on the original thread subject.
I would suggest that if you can't see that, you may be part of the problem.
*sigh*
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...and theres a damn good reason nobody sane goes anywhere near that particular thread, hence the same 5 people trying to turn every politics-related thread into it
Do you know the odds on a May election?
I dont even know got to place a bet, merely curious at what the odds are. Lol
In the meantime, if we could get it back on topic:
our glorious leader is giving a speech this afternoon in Parliament which is nominally about Yemen, but not really.
What he's going to do is a desperate harking back to something more Brexity and try and stoke up some good old fashioned Nationalist Populism with some flag-shagging 'Britain is under attack' rhetoric in a desperate attempt to shift the polling.
Its almost like the battle lines are being drawn for an imminent general election
@Poopscoop - your present odds with the bookies are:
April-June 2024 - 4/1
July-September 2024 - 6/1
October-December 2024. - 4/1
Jan 2025. - 16/1
Well, I'm very sorry for violating your safe space.
I'm still wondering what crucial insights we're missing into Sunak though. Perhaps if those of us who aren't so keen on Starmer stay away for long enough a series of revelations will be made that completely change the way not just people on STW view Sunak but changes the way the entire country sees the current PM.
I wait (quietly) with bated breath.
By the way, you do know you and Sunak are the only people in the UK who still bring up Corbyn at every opportunity? At least you have that in common.
Well if you posted something there would be some new content.
.. or if someone else posted something.
I come to STW often to read about news that other people have shared. I don't read that much news, so it's quite useful. I didn't realise I had a minimum post quota to give me the right to read other people's posts. It's a bit like listening to the radio, without joining in phone-ins.
Wasn't the reason there are different threads because binners et al wanted somewhere they could rant about the tories without being challenged on what labour would do differently? Politics reduced to schoolboy football tribalism. Instead of actually discussing anything all some want to do is post memes and shout 'you're shit and you know you are".
And BTW, this concept of 'ruining' a thread, what a total load of bollocks. It's an internet forum FFS, there's nothing to be ruined. In the grand scheme of things of what is worth protecting or not, a STW forum thread is almost at the bottom of the list.
Anyway, back on topic. Isn't Sunak frightfully horrid. And look how small he is! Aren't the tories evil, terrible people! We really must get rid of them, then everything will be ok. Won't it?
binners et al wanted somewhere they could rant about the tories without being challenged on what labour would do differently?
But so what if he does. You're allowed to call out someone as shit without having a better alternative idea, surely? The entire football industry in the UK is based on this principle.
It's about identifying a problem. If you don't speak up when there are problems because you don't have a solution, then no-one will know about the problems and nothing will get done.
Good grief do none of you lefties actually work, I've only popped in during my lunch break to see some insightful discussion about our current prime minister but you're still all yelling at cats.
Back on topic, lil Rishi is a very small man in every sense of the word. There will be an election in May despite what lil Rishi says. Starmer and lil Rishi are not 2 sides of the same coin.
And off topic, voters in Scotland are fundamentally better than in England, really......to quote Charlie Brown, good grief.
And off topic, voters in Scotland are fundamentally better than in England, really
apart from nobody said that - what we said was the independence debate and the complex voting systems have led to greater political engagement - that and the fact in Scottish elections every vote counts
So to get back towards the topic - does anyone truely believe that Reform are going to stand candidates in tory seats? they6 will rteach a deal with the tories like before IMO - and push the tories further right
Its the only chance tories have of not being wiped out. I am sure Sunak will be asking them what they need to stand down in tory seats. Expect withdrawal from the ECHR in the tory manifesto or some other sop to reform
You’re allowed to call out someone as shit without having a better alternative idea
Unless that someone is Keir Starmer or Tony Blair. And surely we can all agree that politics is different to football? People don't go hungry or sleep on the streets because Man City keep winning the premier league. And you know some of us on here do like to talk about solutions. I've mentioned loads of ideas over the years, many of them entirely sensible and practical, and generally when that happens binners responds with his Monty Python video and others whine about 'ruining the thread'.
So anyway, yah boo tories! bloody w***ers! etc...
So to get back towards the topic – does anyone truely believe that Reform are going to stand candidates in tory seats?
I saw Tice interviewed on Newsnight last week and he said that there is no way on earth they're going to be suckered again like they were by Johnson in 2019. He sounded like he really meant it too when he said there would be absolutely no deals this time around.
You may well say more fool them for trusting a proven liar, or at least getting it in writing, but there you go.
They stood their candidates down on the strength of promises from Boris that he then - surprise, surprise - went back on.
It seemed from what Tice was saying that revenge is a dish best served cold and they are positively relishing splitting the Tory vote to unseat many of their MP's who were complicit with Johnson as he 'betrayed' them, one of whom was Sunak.
You reap what you sow, eh?
They're presently polling at 10 - 11%, but I imagine that what keeps Rishi awake at night is the return of the man-frog to lead Reform/Brexit/Whatever they're called this week, into the upcoming election. Something he has conspicuously not ruled out
Good grief do none of you lefties actually work
My posting volume generally goes up when I'm stuck on a call that someone thought I had to attend when I didn't really need to. Today has been wall-to-wall meetings 😂
I keep hearing October.
My posting volume generally goes up when I’m stuck on a call that someone thought I had to attend when I didn’t really need to. Today has been wall-to-wall meetings 😂
Modern capitalism. 1 hour per day of busy work. 7 hours per day discussing said busy work (along with everyone else's busy work) with various of 'managers'.
does anyone truely believe that Reform are going to stand candidates in tory seats?
I doubt there's much Rishi can do to persuade a bunch of white supremacists that they should support a man with brown skin.
What about a potential return of Cameron? He does seem to be getting his face seen and I notice he's third favourite at the bookies to be the next pm. I hope not, I suspect he'll be more popular than lil Rishi with the Tory faithful
It’s about identifying a problem. If you don’t speak up when there are problems because you don’t have a solution, then no-one will know about the problems and nothing will get done.
This thread is all about identifying problems. Problems with Sunak, problems with Starmer and problems with just about anything else, i.e. voting systems. But this thread is absolutely 100% only to discuss problems specific to Sunak otherwise anarchy will entail.
Maybe they see it as an opportunity to split the Tory party and stand a chance of getting a little parliamentary presence. In that context, I can't see them backing down.
What about a potential return of Cameron?
He's a lord. Think the days of the tories governing the country from the HoL are over.
binners
Full Member
@Poopscoop – your present odds with the bookies are:April-June 2024 – 4/1
July-September 2024 – 6/1
October-December 2024. – 4/1
Jan 2025. – 16/1
Cheers!
Can he be delorded? I know Benn was, but he was hereditary and it took a bit of parliamentary time to free him.
Funny if he took that route and the constituency he was parachuted into rejected him. No, I don't think Call Me Dave will be back as PM.
The Guardian does it's own analysis on today's poll and, funnily enough, comes to a very different conclusion to the Telegraph:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/15/yougov-poll-telegraph-tories-disaster-analysis
I still think the rightward lurch of the Tory party prior to the election is inevitable. Unfortunately, if that happens, the equally violent rightward lurch of Labour is also inevitable.
Can he be delorded?
Yes easy enough.
He would either need to go into the GE as a candidate which would be awkward or stand in one of the upcoming byelections.
Either scenario is unlikely especially since all the competitors would be doing their best to ensure he didnt get made a candidate.
I suspect he regrets not sitting around on the backbenches rather than quitting in a hissyfit.
From that Guardian article:
For one thing, some pollsters believe the YouGov conclusion of a 120-seat Labour majority could be an underestimate. Additionally, the poll’s organisers seem intent on using its findings to push the party further to the right on immigration
Well who'd have thunk it? Lord Frost and various other right wing nutters are carrying on their tub-thuping about immigration. They're absolutely obsessed about something thats of little consequence in the grand scheme of things, and barely registers on most peoples list of concerns
Talking of which, its the Rwanda vote tomorrow and the numbers of Tory Backbench headbangers rumoured to be ready to vote against it now number 70, so Rishi will lose the vote and face fresh calls from the loons to pull the UK out of the ECHR
No wonder Rishi is making a distraction speech this afternoon, where presumably - as always - he'll say absolutely nothing at all
time to vote tactically
because Tories being 3rd party would be hilarious
https://twitter.com/Dylan_Difford/status/1746886158447947988
Talking of which, its the Rwanda vote tomorrow and the numbers of Tory Backbench headbangers rumoured to be ready to vote against it now number 70, so Rishi will lose the vote and face fresh calls from the loons to pull the UK out of the ECHR
Can't find the link now, but apparently we've granted asylum to some Rwandans since declaring it a safe country....there's stupid and then there's Tory stupid.
Its the front page of the I today. Rwanda is just the gift that keeps giving. The Tory party is going to go to war with itself again tomorrow over it. I expect there will be a lot of parliamentary grandstanding from Lee Anderson, Braverman, Gullis, Honest Bob and co while Rishi will be nowhere to be seen.
Rwanda is like a motif for just how unhinged the Tory party now is
Farage is going to look daft if he stands in the strongest Reform area and invariably gets beaten. Plus an early election isn't good for his possible plans to tour US with the Orange One grifting a hell of a lot of money.
Reform are a busted flush if they don't put candidates up for elections. What is the point of a political party if you can't vote for them.
Aren't Reform trying to crowdfund the deposit for one of the local elections? If so then that doesn't sound like they have a massive coffer to cover the costs for all seats in the UK in the general election.
The point of reform is to be a threat to the tory vote to push the tories further to the right. Thats all they are a pressure group but the threat to the tories is real and serious<br /><br />I'll bet they do not stand candidates in tory seats once they have got concessions from the tories. The last thing they want is a strong labour government. There will be key Reform demands in the tory manifesto
Farage is going to look daft if he stands in the strongest Reform area and invariably gets beaten
Watch out. Binners will threadpolice you and announce its only about Sunak. Unless he likes what you are saying in which case carry on.
The smart money is on him not standing since a)he will lose and b)it will mean he needs to concentrate on campaigning in one place as opposed to swanning round several constituencies getting massive press whilst whining about the msm.
What is the point of a political party if you can’t vote for them.
Its not a party. Its a company.
Its best to think of it as close to a political party as tufton street propaganda outlets are to thinktanks. A convenient cover story for putting pressure on media and parties as needed.
If so then that doesn’t sound like they have a massive coffer to cover the costs for all seats in the UK in the general election.
Depends whether their paymasters thinks its worth the cash. Getting crowdfunding makes sense since if it works it indicates an immediate threat to the tories and also offsets the bill to the paymasters.
From the guardian. He is in real trouble4 over this - heads he loses tails he loses
Rishi Sunak is facing a Conservative meltdown over the Rwanda deportation bill after two deputy chairs said they would support rebel amendments aimed at blocking international human rights laws.
Lee Anderson and Brendan Clarke-Smith have defied the prime minister by backing rightwing challenges to the bill, which will be debated by parliament on Tuesday. They will join as many as 70 other MPs said to be considering abstaining or opposing the controversial legislation.
Sunak’s room for manoeuvre is further limited by threats from the One Nation bloc of more than 100 moderate MPs, who have warned that if he accepts any rightwing amendments the bill could be in breach of international law, a red line for the attorney general, Victoria Prentis, and the justice secretary, Alex Chalk.
Yep, the little fella is in deep shit but...he will speed up the appeals process against deportation and he will defy EU judges - according to front pages of express and mail.
tjagain
Full Memberthe bill could be in breach of international law, a red line for the attorney general, Victoria Prentis, and the justice secretary, Alex Chalk.
Just another reminder of how far we've fallen, that only a minority of the ruling party think "breaking international law" is a red line, and that almost as big a group are prepared to rebel in order to make sure we do break it. **** me...
Yep, when this government finally goes we can all take a sigh of relief just as many Americans must have when Trump went. The only problem is they come back again so it doesn't last for very long.
Depending on how today goes and how far Rishi is prepared to give in to the headbangers demands, tomorrows vote could effectively be a vote of no confidence in the little fella, with a few of those ‘on the payroll’ saying they’ll vote against it.
Whether it does or not, the next couple of days are just going to be Tory MPs shouting at each other
Again, it just shows his lack of political nouse. What did he think was going to happen when he appointed the likes of 30p Lee to senior positions?
They’re actually mad enough to now be openly talking about getting rid of Rishi and appointing some far right nutjob BEFORE a general election
They’re actually mad enough to now be openly talking about getting rid of Rishi and appointing some far right nutjob BEFORE a general election
Let's hope they do as I don't think as many people want a far right nut job PM as much as the far right nut job MPs do but will probably be proven wrong.
I know we've been saying this for the last 20 years (or maybe even longer), but surely the schism between the One Nation Tories and the Right Wing nut-job Tories (and no, I refuse to call you 'The Five Families', you bunch of fantasist cretins) simply becomes too great and the party will finally split?
Expect withdrawal from the ECHR in the tory manifesto or some other sop to reform
I've said it before, and I'll say it again - Capital Punishment.
I know we’ve been saying this for the last 20 years (or maybe even longer), but surely the schism between the One Nation Tories and the Right Wing nut-job Tories (and no, I refuse to call you ‘The Five Families’, you bunch of fantasist cretins) simply becomes too great and the party will finally split?
I think one nation Tory was just handy marketing language.
They've always been Neoliberal psychopaths. Being a polite Tory doesn't alter that. Destruction has always been their calling card.
It's just more visible these days.
According to Peston, the Home Secretary (who lest we forget thinks the whole Rwanda thing is 'batshit') will today cave in on the PMs behalf (who lest we forget thinks the whole Rwanda thing is 'batshit').
He will give concessions to the fruitloops which will contravene international law, but that still won't be enough because they won't settle for anything less than full withdrawal from the ECHR, which we all know is absolutely insane and would make the UK an international pariah.
Not getting their frankly unhinged demands in full, they will then vote against the bill that they all devised and championed, undermining the PM and possibly forcing another Tory leadership campaign
Ladies and gentlemen.... the Tory Party and present (hopefully very short-lived) government
Batshit! Absolutely batshit!
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1746986359468736759?s=20
It's interesting that the narrative is still around replacing him as a leader, not just calling an election because the gov is no longer functional. I am clearly far more petty than him; if the Rwanda vote failed I'd be saying "f this, I'm calling an election"