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I’m pretty sure what we’ll see today is that the economy was of far more importance to [s]Rish[/s] Tories than peoples lives
FTFY.
Amazing that for something they care about so much, they still have this incredible ability to **** it sideways every time they're in power.
Obviously we all know the answer already: because they’d say that it was an insane idea and not to go ahead with it. I’m pretty sure what we’ll see today is that the economy was of far more importance to Rish than peoples lives
It may of had a marginal to no effect :/
oooo internet weirdness 🙂
From a personal point of view, theres one thing I want to see him grilled on today.
I and 3.5 million other freelancers would like to know why we were classed as neither employed or self-employed, thus not eligible for a penny in government support during the lockdowns
Again: we all already know the answer to this. Because its the employment model predominantly used in the creative industries, where people don't generally support Brexit or vote Tory, so we were hung out to dry as punishment for this.
As for the Boris/Farage double act.... The suggestion was parachuting Boris into Wellingborough 😀 perfect place for a flytipped sofa but I can't see Boris going for that (or Sunak not exercising his veto). Also don't think it's safe enough in the current climate for Farage to risk it not with his record on failed election attempts!
It may of had a marginal to no effect :/
It was pointless. Stimulating demand was a completely back to front way of looking at it. Support should have been given to the sector without being tied to customer turn out for eat in meals. Loosening of restrictions was enough for people to return to places that had outdoor spaces etc, or turn up for takeaways.
He doesn’t look happy.
He's a thin-skinned dweeb who's only happy when giving a PowerPoint presentation on how wonderful he is to people who believe he is wonderful in the first place.
Johnson had to work very hard to stay mostly in control of his emotions, no doubt based on the weeks of briefings he had in advance of his time in front of the inquiry, I'm not sure Sunak will have quite the same control.
He doesn’t look happy.
He's an entitled little prince who considers it an absolute affront that he should ever have to justify himself to anyone.
His opening attempt at empathy was about as convincing as Johnson and his attempt to get us to believe that a 'Tech Bro' like himself couldn't fathom why he lost his Whatsapp messages is just laughable. He obviously deliberately deleted them
his attempt to get us to believe that a ‘Tech Bro’ like himself couldn’t fathom why he lost his Whatsapp messages is just laughable.
The Tories are the only people in history able to lose WhatsApp messages.
It's like an extra layer of encryption on top of WhatsApp's own.
Ah yes, the Tory Encryption. Gone forever.
Next time Boris goes on about losing his or forgetting his password or whatever drivel he comes up with, I really want the journo to ask about all the IT lessons he had from Jennifer Arcuri. Play it nice and innocent.
The Tories are the only people in history able to lose WhatsApp messages.
If you only have it set to backup occasionally and you change phones then it is feasible if you dont run a manual backup first.
Why would you set it to back up less frequently? Especially in the context of using it as a means of communication in your role as a cabinet minister.
Empty words do not constitute an apology.
Yet more disappearing text and what's app messages; it's completely beyond belief.
Just as well the enquiry has access to messages received by other parties so here's hoping they are used to give sunak problems.
How do they get away with the blatant lies regarding Whatsapp messages?
You can change your number, never mind your phone and still transfer your account.
They'll all have been well aware that government business shouldn't have been conducted via Whatsapp.
They don't care.
They'll all still be doing it. More so now that they now that they'll be able to tell any future inquiry 'sorry all my messages have gone missing and no, I've no idea how that happened' and that'll just be accepted as an actual real world scenario as opposed to a load of made-up bollocks
I don't recall......except when he says "I vividly recall" with his associated hand flourishes - a body language expert would have a field day with this lying slimy ****er
The only idea they haven't floated is Frankenthatcher that's about the only thing that is more mental than some of the ideas. I suppose they could see what Mark or Carol are doing for now
In the meantime, the Tory 'Star Chamber' has just made its thoughts known on Rishi's Rwanda plan, through its chairman...
*checks notes*
.. Mark Francois
FFS! Its all the ERG nutters holding the country to ransom again over their latest right-wing stupidity 🙄
thin-skinned dweeb who’s only happy when giving a PowerPoint presentation
I enjoyed his pronunciation of QALY trying to wrong foot the barrister "Manchester University's kway-lee analysis"
.. Mark Francois
Every time I see a photo of him, my very first thought is still how much he looks like Penfold. I really do expect him to speak with Terry Scott's voice.
LOL, so it's too soft for the right wing loonies in the party and too right wing for the one nation Tories, if we're not heading into either another leadership contest or the announcement of a GE by the end of the week I'll be surprised.
After the multiple references to sunak's Spectator interview, here's what Fraser Nelson who did the interview has said this evening... https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-sunak-really-said-about-lockdown/?utm_medium=email&utm_source=CampaignMonitor_Editorial&utm_campaign=BLND%20%2020231211%20%20House%20Ads%20%20IH+CID_18e4e5ef6d1962b00736af2922d54320
Also from the Spectator which is usually supportive of tories...
the first was that the Prime Minister couldn’t recall the details of an awful lot of meetings and emails from the pandemic
What a horrible read. What a soulless man.
What a soulless man.
He simply has no clue (and cannot even begin to comprehend) what it is like to live without several million quid in the bank.
I'm sure that if someone told him that members of the public travel to work by bike or by bus, he'd be utterly bewildered. You mean... they don't have a helicopter? or a private car and chauffeur?!
He is simply not able to imagine such a world.
And that showed in the inquiry. He "gets" business (or at least, the making money part of it). The rest is just totally alien to him.
The man who has a 1 - 1 with Elon Musk during an AI & Tech conference can't transfer what's app messages from one phone to another and doesn't appear to understand the concept of back-up.
Well I never.
His responses demonstrate clearly that our 'tech bro' PM places no value or worth on life; a walking example of someone who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing.
The full quote is 'A fool is someone who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing' - Oscar Wilde.
It is fully applicable to sunak.
He’s a walking spreadsheet. Totally devoid of even the slightest shred of compassion, empathy or humanity, which is why he’s risen to the top of the Tory party.
To him everything and everyone are just numbers on a balance sheet, to be weighed up and discarded according to the figure below the line. Any emotion he attempts to display is just performative, something he learnt about how human beings are supposed to react
I think you can look at anyone in the present cabinet and correctly label them as sociopaths, but Rishi’s cold, unfeeling heartlessness puts him into the realms of the psychopath. He just looks dead inside, like he actually ‘feels’ absolutely nothing at all
What a horrible read. What a soulless man.
For wanting to challenge and ask for "bean counter" analysis, or for not documenting he had challenged it to protect his arse?
Slightly playing Devils Advocate, because I think he's a useless, spineless shit, but governments must be able to ask and face difficult life and death questions about their citizens - if we drop these atom bombs and kill 300,000 civilians will it prevent the deaths of 3 times that number? If we spend £100,000 a year to keep one person alive, would that be "better spent" giving 10 people new hips to improve their quality of life? If we lockdown and save 400,000 lives and cost £400bn or whatever it was, is that better than not locking down, losing all those people and "only" only costing £100bn?
Now I'd be very worried about the moral angle that a Tory chancellor or The Spectator may have for asking the questions, but I'd expect them to be asked and the answers researched to the best available knowledge at the time and documented.
Now I’d be very worried about the moral angle that a Tory chancellor or The Spectator may have for asking the questions, but I’d expect them to be asked and the answers researched to the best available knowledge at the time and documented.
I actually agree with you - except that Rishi was only doing half of that. The worrying about the bottom line part.
The "lives lost" part is meaningless to him. He would have taken the cheapest option whether it was one life or a million.
And the idea that anything should be researched and documented was probably not meaningless, it was something to be actively avoided!
MCTD - sunak and johnson both said, under oath, it was their responsibility to save lives.
I have no problem with the application of cost-benefit analysis in most settings but, in the context of a pandemic, it is morally reprehensible.
Using a quality-adjusted life year tool to determine which lives deserve treatment and investment to save would be singularly inappropriate in a pandemic where the death count is being measured in hundreds of thousands; the result would be bodies being piled high, mortuaries unable to cope, crematoria running night and day.
Consider the prospect of multiple doctors saying to multiple relatives...we ceased treatment - or didn't bother starting it - because there was no (economic or societal) benefit; would you want to be on the receiving end of that?
It would be a decision taken by politicians who would not directly face the impact but would expect the medical profession to implement it.
Top bod in Home Office has said to Home Affairs Committee that, even if no planes take asylum seekers to Rwanda there will be no £ refund to UK.
This confirms a suggestion way up there^^^ somewhere, this could be re-badged foreign aid.
The Tory One Nation group has, somewhat predictably, wet the bed and said they’ll support Sunaks Rwanda bill tomorrow as long as he really promises not to make it even nastier
I’m not sure Cruella, Honest Bob and the ERG/New Conservative headbangers are ready to be as accommodating.
Another fun day in store for Lil Rishi tomorrow
would you want to be on the receiving end of that?
And there's the nub - I agree it sounds morally horrendous, especially with the current clowns in charge, and it would be healthcare staff actually making the ultimate call face to face with patients and their families BUT in a different kind of pandemic or other national crisis how and where do you focus your limited resources in both the short term and the longer term to best rebuild society/the economy afterwards?
While I'm playing devil's advocate here to a degree, part of this inquiry's purpose is to look at lessons to learn in case a more severe event happens - which must include thinking about the unthinkable. There will always be a finite pot of NHS money for an infinite number of patients and conditions - quality of life vs cost decisions are already taken into by NICE, a pandemic makes the choices more public.
Personally - I'm in my 50s, if I had to be left to take my chances/die in order to safeguard the future of my kids and their generation, I'd like to think I could accept having to take that chance. If I had to sacrifice my kids to help save others, I suspect my views would be very different.
The Tory One Nation group has, somewhat predictably, wet the bed and said they’ll support Sunaks Rwanda bill tomorrow as long as he really promises not to make it even nastier
I’m not sure the ERG/New Conservative headbangers are ready to be as accommodating.
I thought I'd heard on the radio that the headbangers wanted the bill scrapping so that a properly watertight version could be introduced - that seemed a way of kicking the ball down the road rather than imploding the party. "We promise to...." in the GE manifesto will read better than "We failed to...."
How many factions are there?
One Nation, ERG, New Conservatives.
What next - the STI (single tory initiative)?
^^ I'd agree with the MCtD devil's advocacy to an extent, but most methodologies to weigh alternative courses of action involve the concept of the quality adjusted life year (QALY). The fact he pronounced it "kway Lee", today when irrelevantly citing an analysis which concluded it was time to end lockdowns, tells me at least that he was reading a line in his briefing. He's the Mr Spreadsheet who's never actually spoken to a health economist. He's the tech bro who genuinely can't back up his WhatsApp or ask anyone to do it for him. He's a tetchier Mr Bean.
as ever its the erg headbangers that pose the threat to sunak
the one more moderate ones don't want to destroy the party, they put up with far worse from Johnson
I’m not sure Cruella, Honest Bob and the ERG/New Conservative headbangers are ready to be as accommodating.
TBH Who knows what they've been offered,Didn't BJ get his oven ready deal thru by saying he'd tear it up later.
MCTD - agree completely that it's morally horrendous but it could strengthen the case for MMT - move away from economic orthodoxy and adopt a heterodox approach.
Move away from concerns about the deficit and hand-wringing about what we can't pay for; invest (even) more in the NHS to significantly increase capacity, replace decrepit infrastructure, ramp up staff recruitment and training.
We can't save that life because of budgetary constraints should never be a consideration.
You wrote
if I had to be left to take my chances/die in order to safeguard the future of my kids and their generation, I’d like to think I could accept having to take that chance. If I had to sacrifice my kids to help save others, I suspect my views would be very different.
My only point of difference would be that, regarding my children/grandchildren, my views would definitely be very different.