Forum menu
That does concern me a little as Tice must have authorised him to to say that.
I wouldn't bank on that. I don't think party discipline is big in far-right circles. The only local council that UKIP ever controlled was Thanet and within months they lost control due to infighting and mega flounces.
A city in which 41% of its residents were born overseas was never going to be Reform UK territory they only managed to get 3% in the mayoral election, which even if it had all gone to Susan Hall she would still have not won.
So I'm not sure why their man thinks it's a point worth making.
What do we think the chances are now that Tice will revert to type and stand down Reform candidates in Tory marginals before the GE?
Presumably in return for something vile in the Tory manifesto.
Highly likely I think. Tice is not in charge - Farage is.
Whatever serves the future Lord Nigel of Brexitshire best...
What do we think the chances are now that Tice will revert to type and stand down Reform candidates in Tory marginals before the GE?
Presumably in return for something vile in the Tory manifesto.
It's still a possibility. But if you were Farage viewing the current collapse in Conservative support, would you want some manifesto input from a party that is going to be nowhere near power for the next five years, or would you see a devastated Tory party as ripe for a takeover and power grab?
There is a moment of opportunity for Tice and Farage, but only after an historic Conservative defeat.
There is a moment of opportunity for Tice and Farage
Farage has been quoted recently eyeing up the US instead. As a typical right wing "patriot" personal gain is always going to come first.
Farage is a grifter. He has zero interest in the tedious day-to-day business of party politics, as his disappearing act while an MEP showed.
He’s the living embodiment of the old adage ‘politics is show business for ugly people’.
The more the Tory party faithful want him, the less likely he is to want them. Why constrain himself?
He’ll just keep popping up on TV like the irritating gobshite he is and keep leading the Tory party around by the nose. He’s been their de facto leader since 2026 anyway as he basically sets their policy without having to own any responsibility for the consequences
It’s a lucrative win/win for him and not one he’s likely to want to change
Highly likely I think. Tice is not in charge – Farage is.
Nope, he's the Monkey not the Organ Grinder.
reform is a company not a political party and Farage is the major shareholder. whatever Farage wants to happen is what will happen. thats my understanding. Its to pressure the tories to go further right
Its to pressure the tories to go further right
it’s worked an absolute treat for him too, hasn’t it, he’s had them running scared for a decade now and they’re even more terrified of him now than they’ve ever been.
You could argue that the man-frog has been the most influential politician of the last 15 - 20 years and he’s never even been elected as an MP, never mind held high office
Anyway… PMQ’s should be good fun today, seeing as the little fella has been locked in his bedroom sulking since Friday
He’ll know that most of those behind him want him gone. They’d rather have Farage. What a damning indictment that is
reform is a company not a political party
The two are not mutually exclusive. It's set up like that to get around electoral rules about donating AFAIK. It may have started out as a pressure group, although I don't think they regard themselves as anything other than an independent political party. Given the self destruction the Tories are experiencing, I wouldn't be at all surprised if they end up with MP(s) in the GE.
Labour should throw her back - vile person.
"take the hint"
PMQs is utterly pointless right now... Sunak getting away with not only not answering the question, but asking the leader of the opposition an unrelated question they're not allowed to answer. Time for a new team of Speakers, not just a new government.
Time for a new team of Speakers, not just a new government.
This has been my view for a long time. Hoyle is useless and has set the tone for just letting outright lies go unchallenged.
Sunak knows this and just hides behind sound bites and pre planned responses that have no relation to the question asked
It's frankly embarrassing
Is there a point where the defecting Tory is too loathsome to be welcomed into Labour? Apparently not.
The right is now splitting in at least three directions: Conservative; Reform; and Labour.
Elphicke's standing down at the GE so I see this as nothing but a win for Labour. It just piling more pressure on the Tories and Sunak. 👍
Is there a point where the defecting Tory is too loathsome to be welcomed into Labour? Apparently not.
Firstly, this should never be allowed anyway - jumping ship right before it's obvious you're going to get annihilated in a General Election. We're going to end up with the same MPs just having changed allegiance. Absolute disgrace.
Secondly, I'd have thrown her straight back. She's a nasty piece of work, defending her sex-pest husband, suing the Sunday Times for reporting the truth, rubbishing his accusers and pressuring a judge to influence the case. She should be in jail, along with him.
This has been my view for a long time.
Yup. I think Sunak is particularly bad at it since he seemingly has absolutely no ability to think on his feet and hence always uses a set of prepackaged responses which may be close to the question being asked or might not.
As for Elphicke. Definitely should have refused her. An unpleasant hard right Johnson fan.
Labour don't care about the how, why or who a Tory MP defects, they are just a source of more pressure on Sunak to go early, which is all that really matters.
We’re going to end up with the same MPs just having changed allegiance.
No, we're not. The Conservative MPs that have defected to Labour will not be allowed to stand as Labour candidates at the next general election, the candidates for their seats are already selected and getting ready for the general election. Sooner rather than later... please.
The general consensus seems to be that as she’s standing down anyway, she’s about to do a Mad Nad, which means she’ll never be seen in Parliament again.
She just couldn’t resist giving Lil Rishi a good old hoof in the slats on the way out, probably on behalf of Boris, who I’m sure will be absolutely loving this
Labour don’t care about the how, why or who a Tory MP defects
No, not even a right-wing Tory who was slagging off Keir Starmer for being soft on immigrants and terrorists.
How about a bit of self-respect?
Don't trust Labour on immigration they really want open borders, warns Natalie Elphick
https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/1762668/labour-immigration-open-borders
So committed Labour Party members can be accused of being racists and thrown out of the Party if they dare to criticise zionists and the Israeli government, but bigots and racists are welcomed with open arms just as long as they are members of the Tory Party.
It's not just the trust of Muslims that Starmer is now risking losing.
reform is a company not a political party
Lib Dems and Women's Equality Party are both incorporated as companies too. I thought Labour was but I can't find it.
But interesting that Reform is apparently not limited by guarantee like the others (more traditional for not for profits etx), just by share capital, and (half-? wholly-?) owned by Farage.
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/02231620
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/11694875 (NB how Farage describes his profession!)
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/09614158
Is there anyone labour wouldn't accept at this point?
It’s a bit of an odd one, I assume it’s just that she wants to cause maximum damage to Sunak in a remaining parliamentary career now measurable in months.
Even if she wasn’t standing down, very few people who cross the floor get re-elected come the next GE.
No, not even a right-wing Tory who was slagging off Keir Starmer for being soft on immigrants and terrorists.
That's just noise that no one will remember, they will remember her parting comments about Sunak and the Tories though.
She may be nasty but she'll be going in months and will have done damage to the Tories. There might well be more defections too.
It would have been hugely politically naive to refuse her defection imo.
It's pure pragmatism, the Tories will be throwing all the shit they can at Labour and Starmer/ Rayner in months to come. It'll be the London mayoral race on steroids. This is an easy win and far too much of a gift to decline in the months leading up to a really nastily fought GE.
Anyway, just my opinion is all. It's ok if you guys don't agree!👍
She will still be a member of the Labour Party after the next general election. And there's nothing naive about telling her to sling her hook because people like her, who have spent years implementing rightwing Tory policies, aren't wanted in the Labour Party.
How many extra votes do you think her joining the Labour Party has gained for Labour, and how many they might have lost?
Is there anyone labour wouldn’t accept at this point?
Anyone a bit left-wing and who doesn't support the slaughter of innocent civilians being carried out by a far-right government?
She doesn't need to gain votes for Labour, she just needs to put Conservative voters off from voting, which I think she'll do quite effectively.
This is a coup for Labour, especially with Dan Poulter coming over last week. I wonder what next week will bring?
Well I wasn't just disagreeing poops, I asked how many more votes do you think Labour will get from Elphick joining them and how many they might lose?
It's a serious question although you obviously can't give a precise figure but do you think that it will be significant? Will it have been well worth welcoming a small boat hating bigot?
And as a reminder Labour currently have a huge lead over the Tories, so abandoning principles might not be quite that vital and necessary.
I wonder what next week will bring?
A defection from Suella Braverman? She seems determined to sabotage Rishi Sunak.
80 seat majority now down to 38?!
I wonder if that's some sort of record?
ransosFree Member
I’ve always thought that crossing the floor should trigger a by-election. Her electors voted for her with “Conservative” next to her name.
That would play into the hands of the 'Party' as they could threaten MP's with removal of the Whip (and then they'd lose their job).
I’ve always thought that crossing the floor should trigger a by-election. Her electors voted for her with “Conservative” next to her name.
Except that's not, in theory, how the system is supposed to work. Iirc, you technically vote for an individual to be your MP, and whoever gets the most MPs to support them becomes PM? Though I'm happy to be proven wrong.
I agree with Ernie in that she won't encourage people to support Labour. She will, however, put people off voting Tory, and maybe hasten the election, so I think Labour have done the pragmatic thing, held their noses and accepted her defection.
I know pragmatism is frowned upon by the poltically aware on here.
centre left government in power.
Are you taking the piss? Centre left governments don't invite rightwing bigots into their party.
How about a bit of self-respect?
Exactly this. While it's one thing offering previously Tory voters a warm welcome, Elphicke represents everything that is wrong with the modern Tory party. She's not a moderate in any sense, and she has absolutely nothing to offer the party except a cheap headline.
Labour had more to gain from saying 'thanks but no thanks' to this one.
so I think Labour have done the pragmatic thing, held their noses and accepted her defection.
The vast amount of folks who aren't really interested in politics won't read past the headline of "Another Tory defects to Labour" and it's just another nail in the coffin for Sunak's administration , and it reminds folks (again, and so soon after the last one) that the Tories are such losers even their own MPs are defecting.
I doubt Starmer beyond the photo op thinks she'll be making any sort of contribution to the opposition, and I doubt Elphicke thinks she'll be an MP for more than few months more despite crossing the floor. She always was just a chancer hoping for sympathy votes as a Tory placeholder in lieu of her husband after all.
Remarkable how some would prefer an ideologically pure oposition than a centre left government in power.
Of course, if you make a Faustian pact to do anything so grubby as to want to get into power to actually change things; as opposed to protesting which is both much more ideologically satisfying and comes with added bonus of never having to actually do anything - then you should be punished.
Labour getting into power is not dependent on recruiting the likes of Elphicke. There's no need to be quite that grubby.
It's all a bit bizarre. I would have thought the natural home for this particular MP would be Reform rather than Labour. Maybe she just can't stand 30p Lee.
Labour getting into power is not dependent on recruiting the likes of Elphicke.
Of course not, no one thinks that it is, least of all Elphicke or Starmer. It's just about telling the media that the Tories are still shit, and that's how they'll report it. "Blow to Sunak as another MP defects" "Sunak rues election day as another MP crosses the floor" That sort of gig. What the headline won't be is "Hard Right Tory MP seems an odd fit for the Labour party and everyone's a bit confused by it all" That'll be the 9th paragraph in the story that no-one will read.
I mean a different Tory defected the other day as well, and unless I google it, I can't remember his name, and I'm 100% more clued up on politics than most of the public. Of all the things to get cross at this version of Labour, this seems the most ephemeral, and least important.
It’s all a bit bizarre. I would have thought the natural home for this particular MP would be Reform rather than Labour.
Exactly .
So according to this thread it turns out that for some people, who have been raging against the Rwanda/culture war/etc, being a right-wing racist and a bigot isn't a problem after all, just as long as you join the Labour Party.
With so much hypocrisy surrounding politics is it much wonder that voters become cynical and switch off?
at this point Labour are trying to force a GE any way they can
and realistically the ONLY way thats going to happen is to make Sunak so peeved that he just calls a GE so he can sod off to California ASAP!
elphicke is a horrible person, no doubt, but now she'll have to vote with labour on various policies oncluding immigration or face being booted out!
Lets be honest - it's another blow to Sunak after a week of blows.
Death by a 1000 cuts. Would still rather they wrote a letter than defected though.
The Beeb have an article up about the defection, here's a few takeaways from it.
They (defectors) are a morale-lifting fillip for the party of the new arrival, and debilitating for the party the MP has left, particularly when it's from the governing to the main opposition party.
Why? They personify very starkly what an opposition party is seeking to do on a far wider scale - tempt people who recently backed the Conservatives to switch to backing Labour
And the party political words of the defecting MP have an additional capacity to wound given their previous political home.
"The centre ground has been abandoned and key pledges of the 2019 manifesto have been ditched. Meanwhile the Labour Party has changed out of all recognition."
For those in the press gallery during Prime Minister's Questions, it was quite a moment as Keir Starmer did a spot of gloating about his latest new MP.
There was a bemusement and confusion from many on the Conservative benches.
This, the newspaper headlines and on the TV news services is all this is about. She wont be allowed anywhere near immigration policy and her name will be forgotten in weeks but this trickle of defections will fester in the Tory party.
And as a reminder Labour currently have a huge lead over the Tories, so abandoning principles might not be quite that vital and necessary.
I wasn't of any Labour principles under starmer and his fawning acolytes to abandon any further than they already have, he's a vapid dick
I love this quote :
As Steve Baker, the government’s Northern Ireland Minister and erstwhile champion of the Tory Eurosceptics, noted on Twitter: “I have been searching in vain for a Conservative MP who thinks themself to the right of Natalie Elphicke"
I guess the question is with the general election no more than about 6 months away what was the motivation behind her decision?
She was going to be out of frontline politics quite soon anyway and I doubt that she was wrestling with her conscience after five years of being a Tory MP.
So maybe just deep hatred for Rishi Sunak and the Tory Party? Unlikely I would have thought.
Most likely like Dan Poulter an eye on her post-parliamentary career, and maybe lucrative contracts from a well disposed Labour government that owes her a favour or two.
Whatever the motive there will definitely have been one.
Not being well received by some members of Labour
https://twitter.com/estwebber/status/1788242708097642881
After her husband got sent down for rape she publicly distanced her self from him, but she secretly vistited him in prison (according to a friend of a friend who worked there)
Are you taking the piss? Centre left governments don’t invite rightwing bigots into their party.
They'll accept them if it makes tne government look even weaker than it is and increase the chance of an earlier election.
Obviously, Reform looks her natural home, but if you'd sooner reject her move to Labour, potentially delaying tne inevitable election and leaving the Tories in power even longer, you do you.
https://www.politico.eu/article/tory-natalie-elphicke-defection-sparks-backlash-labour-women/
Seven female Labour MPs, granted anonymity to speak frankly about sentiment inside the party, told POLITICO they were uncomfortable with her switch.
So now things have become so dire within the Labour Party that Labour politicians have to be granted anonymity before they can speak frankly.
But a shadow minister said there was “a lot of unease” because “Natalie has said some abhorrent things and I’m not sure her values are those we should be aspiring to have in the party.”
But surely Natalie changed her values today?
Obviously, Reform looks her natural home
Does this really even need saying? You are the leader of the opposition you have a chance to either 1. increase your MP head count at the expense of the Tories, or 2. Hand a media victory and the next few days of headlines as Reform gets its first MP?
As David Sedaris pointed out only a few days ago; If the waiter offers you a choice of chicken or a shit sandwich rolled in broken glass, the correct answer is not; "How's the Chicken cooked?"
Some weird stuff on this thread. The MPs who are members of the European Research Group are totally vilified on STW as the very worse of the Tory scum. As the most rightwing of this rightwing of the Tory government they are almost nazis. God help anyone who suggests otherwise.
And yet today I discover that if a member of the ERG wants to join the Labour Party hey that's cool, why not?
She won’t be an MP come the election, and her seat now has a very high chance of going to Labour. Her letter is full of praise for Labour accepting Brexit (you know, that thing you wanted despite not being right wing). Getting people who, bizarrely, wanted Brexit to now vote Labour has clearly been key to Labour’s election plan. Painful though that is if you want evidence based politics and as speedy a rebuilding of connections with the rest of Europe as possible.
I think Reform have an MP Nick. Although forgetting about him is probably wise.
Getting people who, bizarrely, wanted Brexit to now vote Labour has clearly been key to Labour’s election plan.
Really ? You think Brexit will be a key issue next general election which is why Starmer has welcomed her with open arms?
And in answer to your question Nick I would go to a different restaurant. I don't eat chicken nor shit rolled in broken glass.
The idea that Starmer had no choice but to welcome a rightwing/ERG Tory into the Labour Party, and that we have no choice but to accept it, is absurd.
I have repeatedly pointed out in the past on here that unlike most other European countries the far-right has not had any significant electoral success in the UK, the invariable response has been "but that is because the Tory Party today is the far-right".
So my question now is does Natalie Elphicke represent the far-right in UK politics?
I think that I'm with Ernie on this one. Party that welcomes Elphicke is not a political party I'm at home in. This of course means voting Green in a winnable seat for Labour. Awesome 😔
And yet today I discover that if a member of the ERG wants to join the Labour Party hey that’s cool, why not?
Blue team bad red team good.
The idea that Starmer had no choice but to welcome a rightwing/ERG Tory into the Labour Party, and that we have no choice but to accept it, is absurd.
Hey we don't want to change any narrative - we just want to be the replacement Conservatives.
And in answer to your question Nick I would go to a different restaurant. I don’t eat chicken nor shit rolled in broken glass.
You assume Nicks metaphor allowed the option of another restaurant. I admire the commitment you snd others have to your values, but most of us would prefer an attainable if unpleasant change rather tnan a perfection that will never happen immediately.
If youd sooner be hungry than hold your nose and eat chicken, that's your choice
And in answer to your question Nick I would go to a different restaurant.
Ah well, avoiding the question is as clear as the obvious answer. It's not that he didn't have a choice, he chose the path that gave him the best weapon with which to beat Sunak over the head. Which is; your MPs are abandoning your ship. That's the sum total of the start middle and finish of today's proceedings.
I think that I’m with Ernie on this one. Party that welcomes Elphicke is not a political party I’m at home in. This of course means voting Green in a winnable seat for Labour. Awesome 😔
That's because we have only one way of doing lazy arse politics these days. Shift rightwards - adopt flawed economic policies.
The arguments for moving left are more robust and pragmatic - but ya know, path of least resistance etc.
You think Brexit will be a key issue next general election which is why Starmer has welcomed her with open arms?
No. It won’t, because Labour have neutralized the issue. They’ve bent over backwards to do so. Even an ex-ERG member can now say to voters that Labour won’t undo Brexit and they can vote for Labour based on other issues the government are failing on… eg. housing and people smuggling.
She’s going to do bugger all in the Labour Party now, it’s just a big event to damage her old party on the way out. As soon as we get an election she’ll be replaced. Although you might not like who by… if you like throwing the flag shagger epitaph at Labour politicians when they try and reassure the voters who considered them anti-British… no Labour candidate has taken a firmer “reclaim the flag” approach to their campaign build up for the next election.
More than the ERG Brexit stuff, I’m more concerned about the defence of her rapey ex-husband. I’d be interested to know what Jess Phillips - a lifelong campaigner against violence against women - has to say about that?
I can’t help thinking that issuing a press release saying ‘she wanted to defect to us but we told her to **** off’ would have been a far better option.
That would play into the hands of the ‘Party’ as they could threaten MP’s with removal of the Whip (and then they’d lose their job).
But that's pretty much what happens now in reality. MPs don't tend to defect right after they've been elected, and then they do, they're rarely re-elected for their new team. All you're really talking about is whether they leave office immediately or only at the next election
Except that’s not, in theory, how the system is supposed to work. Iirc, you technically vote for an individual to be your MP, and whoever gets the most MPs to support them becomes PM? Though I’m happy to be proven wrong.
Yes, but that individual is aligned with a political party on the ballot paper.
Which is; your MPs are abandoning your ship. That’s the sum total of the start middle and finish of today’s proceedings.
It really isnt.
Where would Starmer draw the line for a minor victory? If Farage offered to join up would that be acceptable in your eyes? At some point you need to consider whether you had to destroy the village to save it.
I’d be interested to know what Jess Phillips – a lifelong campaigner against violence against women – has to say about that?
Already announced she's stepping down at the next election hasn't she?
Mentioned earlier that no one remembers the name of the Dr bloke who crossed the floor last week. Listening to LBC tonight and a political commentator couldn't either!
We're in election mode so the rules have changed, at least in the mind of those advising the leaders. They've priced in the damage and think it's still worth it.
What would happen if they tried to schedule an election in the middle of the summer holidays, on the assumption that most of their core older voters would be less likely to be away on hols?
binners
Full Member
More than the ERG Brexit stuff, I’m more concerned about the defence of her rapey ex-husband. I’d be interested to know what Jess Phillips – a lifelong campaigner against violence against women – has to say about that?I can’t help thinking that issuing a press release saying ‘she wanted to defect to us but we told her to **** off’ would have been a far better option.
8th May 2024
Ernie and Binners agree on something.
World peace shall me called by tomorrow lunch time and Binners shall announce he is a communist by Friday.
😁