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I'm feeling a bit raw as my Dad fought in the Falklands and the Gulf Wars. He served all his life as a pilot in the RAF, won commendations for saving his crew in a Hercules that lost all rudder control (they struggled to work out how he landed it) and never once mentioned it to anyone. He died in a care home with zero support from the state, the RAF benevolent fund etc.. and we could not even get a doctor there to see him at the end. Tonight I'm supposed to go and clap for a guy who lived a full life, had a decent sized house and walked around it a bit for charity then got a holiday in Barbados. Fair play to him I suppose. But I'm struggling to equate it to my Dad's experience. I feel the true heroes are always those we've never heard of. Sorry, it's an out of order rant I know. But Sir Tom didn't really unite me with anything or make me feel better.
EDIT: just seen the post above with similar sentiment.
Does anyone know anyone who is aware of anyone who might be partaking of Boris’ clap?
If we change claps to slaps
196,694 slaps and one 40,000 mph slap to cook a 65kg human
Adjust times according to weight
He died in a care home with zero support from the state
I think this is the thing that annoys me about all this.
A one hundred year old man raising funds for the NHS, and we currently have a premier league footballer involved in feeding Children.
Politicians within the state have the moral compass of a roulette wheel.
Sir Tom did a wonderful thing but this feels like a propaganda stunt.
Thats because a propaganda stunt is exactly what it is.
He's trying to hitch himself to Sir Tom for some reflected glory. There will, of course, be lots of cameras there to film him milking the moment for all its worth. Probably to a backdrop of about 20 union jacks outside number 10, for the cover of tomorrows Daily heil.
They might even go the whole hog and arrange a Spitfire flypast or the Red Arrows. It wouldn't surprise me in the least.
All this is just a convenient backdrop for Boris's ego. The man is despicable
Boris gives the nation a claptrap
Hmmm I don't feel very uncomfortable about this. Whilst yesterday I posted about being gutted for the poor chap, probably on reflection it's as much about 'the last straw' as it is about the man.
For me it would have been much more appropriate for us to be standing on doorsteps for a minute's silence last week to mark the passing of a 100,000 victims. Not this.
Some really good posts here.
Especially DavidB, good point- well made.
What a lovely bloke. Not just for what he did, but how he spoke to and about others. A sad loss.
People shouldn't be dying in their thousands of a preventable disease right now. He and many others should have been looking forward to a few months/years with their families, post vaccination, and post proper controls, measures and support being in place over this winter to get us through it. We should/could have got through the winter with levels of infection kept low and away from the old and vulnerable while we rolled out the vaccines.
For me it would have been much more appropriate for us to be standing on doorsteps for a minute’s silence last week to mark the passing of a 100,000 victims. Not this.
Yup
But clapping very good distraction from the fact that that this Government has failed the nation and our COVID death rates are, proportionately, up there with the very worst in the world.
Why is the nation not collectively screaming about this epic failure of government?
But hey, plucky Brits, blitz spirit, NHS heros, Captain Tom and Union Jacks. Look, a squirrel!
I was reflecting on why Captain Toms death upset me so much. I think it is because he represents the best of us, and his death is partially result of the failures of Government who, increasingly, appear to represent the very worse of us. And now those same politicians want to freeload off his achievements whilst trying to distract from their own failures. Shame on them.
Of course Boris will clap for him " thanks for the money to shore up the NHS after my party screwed it for a generation"
the money that Tom raised, what happened to it? Serious question as there seems to have been a lot of money flowing into friends of the governments hands since all this started.
A lot of people have died during all of this, a lot of people taken long before their time, not to mention the people booted further down waiting lists for cancer treatments (my Auntie for one) because the NHS is being battered while the government think sending everyone to a restaurant with a voucher is "dealing with it"
Clapping at your front door is a distraction at best, utterly offensive to everyone else in the 100,000 and counting at worst
@darthpunk - probably not on what most people thought it would be spent on
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-52758683
@darthpunk – probably not on what most people thought it would be spent on
Maybe i'm just too cynical for this world, but that seems a lot of shite for 33 million
probably not on what most people thought it would be spent on
It was spent on support for NHS staff worked to the bone.
Maybe i’m just too cynical for this world, but that seems a lot of shite for 33 million
I think you should talk to people who work in hospitals.
Clapping at your front door is a distraction at best, utterly offensive to everyone else in the 100,000 and counting at worst
Yes. This.
I was reflecting on why Captain Toms death upset me so much. I think it is because he represents the best of us, and his death is partially result of the failures of Government who, increasingly, appear to represent the very worse of us. And now those same politicians want to freeload off his achievements whilst trying to distract from their own failures. Shame on them.
Yes. Very much this.
Boris can do one.
Maybe i’m just too cynical for this world, but that seems a lot of shite for 33 million
Cannot spend donations on core operations, so nothing involving kit or pay. I think... Apply 'pub fact' to that sentence.
I don't have a problem with Sir Tom, he did what he did quietly without any intention to do anything other than help. It went viral by itself, Michael Ball on Radio 2 helped that a lot. I think a lot of people saw it as a bit of a nice thing during the first jolly lock down (well those that weren't working, losing jobs or businesses or on the front line of all this).
It's what other people have made of this that sits uncomfortably, especially the right wing press and idiot Boris.
The money was raised was a lot by individual standards, but loose change to the NHS. The money was never going into Covid care, PPE or any other core NHS work, if people who donated thought it would they were naïve. Secondly no fund raising like this should fund core NHS work, that absolutely should be government spending.
Unfortunately this country is populated by emotional morons who lap this sort of thing up and that needs condemning, Sir Tom not so much.
I can see how his families experience compared to others losing relatives must pretty painful.
Sorry, it’s an out of order rant I know.
No it isn't fella. I think I'd feel exactly the same. Old captain tom seemed like a good man, but the more I reflect on it the more cyclical I get
He's been hailed as a hero, an inspiration, knighted. Sure he earned 33m in donations, but in reality all he actually did was walk a grand total of 2.5 k round his own garden and it took him around 1 month to do so. That so many folks jumped on his donation bandwagon was great, but he's no more of a hero than anyone else who has died of the virus.
He ended up being very lucky to have a quite amazing last year of life, and I don't begrudge him that at all. But I'm not going to stand on my doorstep and clap for a guy who lived to the ripe old age of 100 when people are dying in their thousands every day.
Convert is spot on, we should be standing in memory of 100k dead folks, not a token gesture of clapping.
I've just received a change.org petition to give the man a state funeral!!?? Wtaf...
Didn't hear anything outside at 1800, didn't agree with clapping for him myself, as much as Captain Sir Tom raised money last year it seemed like a huge slap in the face for the other 100k+ UK people that have also died.
tpbiker, yeah I got that as well, deleted.
It’s what other people have made of this that sits uncomfortably, especially the right wing press and idiot Boris.
That's how I feel.
The fact is that Boris stood on his doorstep to clap in memory of a good guy who did a great thing, but who died because Boris and his government ignored the experts and experience of the first wave and allowed this second wave to come along and kill Captain Tom and tens of thousands of others.
Utter ****ing hypocrisy.
Some neighbours joined in round here
Our local Tory MP stoking the WW2 vibes
https://twitter.com/thisischerilyn/status/1356688595445305345
Didn’t hear anything outside at 1800
Neither did I. I doubt anyone did. The whole thing was concocted by Boris as a promotional photo opportunity for Boris, stood on the steps of number 10 doing his third rate Churchill impersonation.
Then, of course, it took on the same faintly menacing air as the loyalty pledges in Catch 22, where all the other political leaders have to make the same public display (while also having plenty of cameras around to record the event) because if they don't then they're clearly insufficiently British, or a traitor, or a communist or something.
Daily mail pushing for a statue of him now. It's cringeworthy..
This is beginning to sound like the poppy's. If you don't wear a poppy/clap for captain Tom, your an unpatriotic traitor/communist that deserves to be shot.
doing his third rate Churchill impersonation.
Its quite funny that the more he attempts the Churchill act, the more he comes across as a Mussolini
NHS Charity money cant be spent on day to day NHS costs or standard Capital investment (fixing or building new bits).
Its very basically for 'nice' things. Our place has spent recently on artwork, new staff and patient rest areas and ipads for isolated patients.
Its very basically for ‘nice’ things. Our place has spent recently on artwork, new staff and patient rest areas and ipads for isolated patients.
Pretty shocking that staff and patient rest areas aren't part of standard operating costs, TBH.
I'd be pretty pissed off if I thought any money I ever gave to the nhs was going on artwork tbh!
Not to detract from the captain's achievements, but a 103 year old chap named Alfons Leempoels attempted to walk a marathon around his garden at same time. No idea if he finished or not, last report I could see he had completed roughly 13 km..and raised just 6k.
I would have no problem with 'some' of the funds being spent on artwork. I was in A&E yesterday with one of my children and we were both commenting on the excellent photography hung on the walls. Firstly it lifted a drab space, secondly it gave my daughter something to take her mind off the issue at hand and thirdly I reckon the staff probably would prefer to look at art rather than a blank wall day in day out.
I do have a problem with cynical manipulation of a gullible public by both government and press but that is obviously a different thing!
I’d be pretty pissed off if I thought any money I ever gave to the nhs was going on artwork tbh!
Why? I gather your own home has bare walls painted in utilitarian colours with paint left over from painting some silo’s at a nuclear power station?
I doubt they’ll have been bidding on David Hockney originals at Sotheby’s, just putting some prints up to brighten the place up a bit
Sounds to me like exactly the kind of thing charitable donations should be used for.
It was probably a bit of a dream for Capt Tom. A knighthood, the amount raised, getting respect we know he likely didnt receive from the government were to to phone about his pension or such.
Well done to him, for his effort, not his fault it all went viral.
Cannot complain or criticize the man himself. He did all we expected him to do. From his military service, through to his now documented life(racing motorcycles) steady employment and paying his taxes, through to raising an extraordinary sum but, even at advanced years, so advanced you can admit to yourself that you could well go any day. It seems to have given him a new lease of life.
But clapping very good distraction from the fact that that this Government has failed the nation and our COVID death rates are, proportionately, up there with the very worst in the world.
Terribly so. We're ranked 4th.
Leading is the USA - population 328 million - Infections - 26,186,812. Deaths 441,324
2nd. India Population 1.3 billion - infections -10,757,610. Deaths 154,392
3rd. Brazil Population 211 million -Infections - 9,204,731. Deaths 224,504
4th top - The UK, population 66 million - Infections - 3,828,183. Deaths 106,367
5th Russia Population 144 million - Infections - 3,825,739. Deaths 72,456
As with Russia, across Europe the deaths are from about 55 million(25m for Turkey)through to about 72 million.
So the UK is significantly higher than much of the world, probably the worst so, taking total population numbers into the equation.
Lay it all, ALL at the feet of the Tory party. Critisise anyone, then it's those ba$%^&ds that should be in the firing line. It is just a shame the scum so called 'journalists' refuse to blame them for anything.
NHS Charity money cant be spent on day to day NHS costs or standard Capital investment (fixing or building new bits).
Its very basically for ‘nice’ things. Our place has spent recently on artwork, new staff and patient rest areas and ipads for isolated patients.
As was made fairly clear in a lot of media articles at the time?
Why? I gather your own home has bare walls painted in utilitarian colours with paint left over from painting some silo’s at a nuclear power station?
Nope, but then again my house isn't chronically underfunded like the nhs. If I was skint and someone gave me 100 quid to spend, I wouldn't splash it on fancy wall decorations when the heating bill needed paid.
But then again, if that is what nhs charity payments are put towards, fair enough. I hadn't realised.
tpbiker
Full MemberI’d be pretty pissed off if I thought any money I ever gave to the nhs was going on artwork tbh!
Not to detract from the captain’s achievements, but a 103 year old chap named Alfons Leempoels attempted to walk a marathon around his garden at same time. No idea if he finished or not, last report I could see he had completed roughly 13 km..and raised just 6k.
"Not to detract" why post it then? 🤷♂️ He did a good thing, for the right reasons. He didn't call himself a hero. He didn't organise this bullshit clap.
Ps. Alfons Leempoels states that Tom Moore was actually the inspiration for doing his walk so that's not really the best example to use:
Leempoels said the idea came to him when he saw World War Two veteran Tom Moore, 100, strike a chord in Britain by raising the equivalent of more than $40 million for the country's health service by walking around his garden.
NHS Trusts/ NHS Foundation trusts have their own charities that fund all sorts of stuff but they have to be separate from the normal hospital operations. That doesn't mean they don't fund new facilities, patient support services, research etc but the charities have to be clear what the purpose of the funding is. Have a look at some of the trust that have big charitable arms eg Christe, GSOH, Royal Marsden etc
There is a principle of additionality in public finance which I think is causing confusion. Charitable funds can only be used for things that are not already funded through taxation - this is a general principle to stop public bodies/governments from just directly using or requiring local bodies to use charitable funds (including the national lottery) to substitute for taxation - and you know this Govt would given half a chance.
Saying "it can only be spent on art etc" is a bit of a our favourite right wing tabloid's spin
So now a priest has received death threats and racist/homophobic abuse for daring to have an alternative opinion. Bet all the people who complained and signed the petition are the same morons who constantly whine about cancel culture and freedom of speech.
Robinson-Brown wrote: “The cult of Captain Tom is a cult of White British Nationalism. I will offer prayers for the repose of his kind and generous soul, but I will not be joining the ‘National Clap’.”
He swiftly deleted his comment, and offered “an unreserved apology for the insensitive timing and content of my tweet regarding the clap for Captain Tom”. He later deleted his Twitter account.
The tweet drew a furious response on social media and in other forums, including the Millwall football club fans’ chat room. By 5pm on Friday, almost 18,000 people had signed an online petition calling on the church to “remove him from his post, on the basis he is a divisive and damaging figure that has insulted the memory of a national treasure and true hero of this country”.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/07/church-aided-the-pile-on-of-curates-captain-tom-tweet
Tom foundation paying not insignificant funds for management & to company's run by his daughter, I bet Tom's chuffed to bits 😕
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-60319650
What's that as a percentage of funds raised, and available to disperse...? And how does that compare to other charities?
Paid out £160k in grants, costs at £209k including £162k management costs according to the article.
What’s that as a percentage of funds raised, and available to disperse…? And how does that compare to other charities?
According to the article, and some quick maths, a bit more than 50%. I doubt that compares favourably to other charities. Obviously more money came in than that.
From the BBC
According to the published accounts, covering the charity's first year from 5 May 2020 to 31 May 2021, it paid out grants to four charities worth £40,000 each but spent £209,433 on support costs including £162,336 on "management".
.