MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
What a palaver. Nearly went under a van in new mills today thanks to my ineptitude at a junction.
I think I'm going back to flats, convince me to persevere...
Never had a problem in years and years until Saturday, went offroad in Speedplays and clogged up the cleats. Managed to clip in but then couldn't get out again at a T junction, in the confusion rolled into the road and caused an oncoming car to swerve around me 😳
Just keep trying, they are well worth it..
What a palaver. Nearly went under a van
Bloody hell!! hope you're OK! 😯
you can loosen the pressure it takes to unclip if that helps at all?
You get used to it. Although personally I only use cleats on road.
Clipping in and out becomes second nature after a while, to the point where I find myself trying to clip out of flats...
I'm in the minority that still prefers flats off-road, but on the road, and anything non-technical really, clipless pedals are great.
The spring in the pedal is adjustable. Adjust it.
What pedals are you using as some allow adjustable tension/release?
Good time to practice the track stand too
I'd say they're worth mastering, and using on days when the extra ounce of effort really matters (like races) but generally stick to flats. They force better technique and you'll feel the benefits of riding clipped in more if you generally ride flats.
This is worth a read:
http://www.bikejames.com/strength/the-flat-pedal-revolution-manifesto-how-to-improve-your-riding-with-flat-pedals/
Definitely keep going...
Some cleats are reversible on the shoes and changes the angle needed to release.... Less twist would maybe help you
It sounds far more dramatic then it really was!
I've already loosened the screws as far as possible and i;ve even changed the cleat type - spds have an 'easy to get put of version'. Cant remember the proper name and too lazy to look!
I only use them on the road bike after a reasonably spectacular bike over arse incident on the MTB last year. The only real reason I got them int he first place was curiosity and the need for waterproofing my toes!
Are SPDs particularly better/worse than others for adjustment?
Perhaps cleats and me just don't mix!
More practise on a quiet day/near a sofa.
if you're using mtb spd pedals, try using the cleats with a big M printed on the cleat.
M stands for multi release.
Or just consider it bad luck one of 10000000000 normal rides you will have. Go for another ride with positive results to get your confidence back.
Persevere. One or two SPD "moments" is just the learning curve.
My best one was a bank holiday weekend in a busy car park at Loch Katrine when I tried to almost but not quite stop to toss my banana in a bin and my ineptitude resulted in a slow topple sideways still attached to the bike with a large audience. Totally second nature now with no thought required when stopping and clipping out.
I ride with flats on and off road. Clipless don't offer me any advantage and I can't be bothered with them. You're the only person who can decide whether it's worth persevering or not. I'm interested in how they manage to waterproof your toes though!
Don't try to pull you feet up off the pedals as you twist. If anything push down and twist. The cleats are designed to stop your feet lifting off.
You'll fall off more with clips. Is that something you want to do? You'll also have to start denying that this happens.
Sympathies - I remember my first ride with spds and not knowing about the adjustments. After falling off for the umpteenth time, I was wondering WTF does anyone bother.
Many years later and I can't imagine not being clipped in unless it's a steep turn and I am in mincer-mode!
Stick with it!
The cleats don't waterproof but it seemed the shoes available were better... I may have been misguided there!
Is it now I mention I've had them more than 2 years!
Persevere used clip less for 25 years now ,few scary moments at first but makes your riding easy in the long run
I've ridden spd for ages..
Go ride round the park practising clipping in and releasing. You'll get the hang of it really quickly.
I cant ride with flats 20 years on clipless ,to me flats don't feel right
I much prefer being attached to the bike you just need to persevere ..eh and adjust
Stick with flats. Most people I ride with who ride clipped in use It as an excuse to not ride anything really steep, not do jumps and drops and it's the reason they can't wheelie as they can't unclip in time if they are going to far back.
either preserve which is what i advise as it does just become second nature - no idea when i last used flats but getting on for 20 years
Its either or that or stick with flats and instantly become as rad as that poster above and avoid being one of his mincing hanger ons
The decision is yours.
Agree about better winter boots though, there do seem to be better choices.
Although a descent pair of waterproof socks would probably help as well.
As for clips vs flats, I think once you're used to whatever you choose, it probably makes **** all difference.
I've already loosened the screws as far as possible and i;ve even changed the cleat type - spds have an 'easy to get put of version'
this bit doesn't compute for me, with Shimano SPD's set on minimum tension I can't stay clipped IN, you practically fall out of them when they're set on the loosest setting. :-s
persevere if you want to, give up if you're not that bothered, I tend to use SPDs when racing, flats a lot of the time when not.
I think once you're used to whatever you choose, it probably makes **** all difference.
this ^ and if you regularly swap between both it'll make even less difference.
What they said. Until you have fallen clipped over in mud or a stream it doesn't count. Tough it out.
You may not like it junkyard but that's my experience. I'm quite happy with my rad skills.
Also I have noticed that people that have ridden and played on bikes since being kids don't need to ride clipped in or need the grippiest pedals available and 5.10 shoes.
Some great riders use clips some dont some prefer flats some dont
Clips alone does not make you a mincer nor flats make you rad
Everyone knows this so either offer some practical advice or troll
The decision is yours,
I've been riding clipped in since I was 11 or 12, and all I did back then was MTBing.
I like it, I'm used to it, and the pedals have got better at shedding mud and hence unclipping at a more predictable level of force. I've only ever had issues due to them when on very muddy rides before the pedals got better at mud shedding, um, and when going off the back when I was learning to wheelie!
That said, I practiced clipping/unclipping on the driveway a lot before I went out, and it took years before I was really used to them. I don't think you were misled re. better shoes being available, but I'm sure you could find something warm and waterproof that was suitable for flats if you searched hard enough. If you don't get on with them, that's fine, just use your flats.
The only place you have to use clipless is on the velodrome, and if you need to unclip suddenly there something has already gone very wrong.
You may not like it junkyard but that's my experience. I'm quite happy with my rad skills.
Also I have noticed that people that have ridden and played on bikes since being kids don't need to ride clipped in or need the grippiest pedals available and 5.10 shoes.
Spd rider here, playing out on bikes since 5...
OP, there's not any rules! If your really not comfy go back to flats.
I have my spd's quite tight and don't struggle to get my foot out. It just becomes second nature. In out little group of riders I'd reckon we're 50/50 clips/flats
As a fellow newmillbilly, what bike do you ride? I'll give you a wave if I see you on the high street (or a hand up if your lying in traffic because some stranger suggested attaching yourself to your bike)
I'd keep trying mate. Go have a bit of a play clipping and unclipping you'd be surprised how quick you will make it a habit!
on road treat it a bit like when you started driving where you'd be slowing down well you need to before a junction, so start to slow and unclip before you get there.
It will take time to get used to them, The first time I used them I had a nice pootle round outside the bike shop, pulled up to stop and promptly fell over as I forgot to unclip, it will happen many times at first .
As Wookster says above, think about unclipping well before you need to. When I first started using them on the road I used to coast up to junctions, unclip the foot I prefered to put down on rolled up with that foot dangling until I stopped. After a while I've stopped thinking about it and ride as if I'm on flats.
MartynS my MTB is a felt hardtail buy I'm a whaleyite so I'm usually off in the opposite direction...
Most of the advice seems to be give it time and it'll come good. Well I've given it 2 years so I need a reason why it's better.
Even on the road bike I don't really notice much difference in 'pedalling efficiency'.
cumberlanddan - Member
MartynS my MTB is a felt hardtail buy I'm a whaleyite so I'm usually off in the opposite direction...Most of the advice seems to be give it time and it'll come good. Well I've given it 2 years so I need a reason why it's better.
Even on the road bike I don't really notice much difference in 'pedalling efficiency'.
POSTED 1 MINUTE AGO # REPORT-POST
Stop then! Life is too short for enjoyable things to be shite!!
.....yeah, I think Peaty said that at Fort Bill a few times too .... 🙂Most people I ride with who ride clipped in use It as an excuse to not ride anything really steep, not do jumps and drops
Well I've given it 2 years so I need a reason why it's better.Even on the road bike I don't really notice much difference in 'pedalling efficiency'.
THen stop as it seems you dont like it, dont see the benefits and cannot get used to it - none of that meant as a dig
We are all different and certain things just dont suit people
Think there is something about foot position, even when clipped. Some dh riders may help out here...
The Sidi shoes I use with cleats, the attatchment is under the ball of my foot. I'm thinking dh clips will be back more towards the arch of the foot, placing the shoe more forward on the pedal for the steeper stuff..
Yes ?
Even on the road bike I don't really notice much difference in 'pedalling efficiency'.
You are doing something wrong then, on clipless you have the ability to pull up, which is impossible on flats. Even Wade Simmons admitted he missed being clipped in, when climbing steep stuff.
I didn't say I didn't notice it, just not much!
But is that the sole benefit or am I missing a trick?
I might try shifting the cleats backwards a bit and see if that helps. It'll be an interesting experiment if nowt else!
two advantages IMHO
1 ) more power as you can pull up on the pedals
2) more control as you are literally attached to the bike
That said not everyone likes it and you dont have to ride clipped in use flats if you prefer
I tried switching from flats to SPDs at this time last year. It didn't last too long.
The main reason I found is that due to mud / ice you are much more likely to have those 'need to quickly get my foot out' moments, whether due to a sliding wheel or, worse, wheel spinning on a muddy climb.
I found myself falling 3-4 times every single ride due to not being able to get my foot out quick enough. The kind of situations where I was binning it the most were the ones where you only had a fraction of a second to unclip, and 'muscle memory' is going to be your only saving grace.
This killed SPDs for me and I went back to flats with more confidence than ever. I'll maybe try again, but in more forgiving weather! (I still use clips on my road bike though!)
[i]You are doing something wrong then, on clipless you have the ability to pull up, which is impossible on flats.[/i]
really? I can pull up using flats.
Give it a proper try so you at least know what you prefer. Neither type of pedal is sufficiently "better" for it to be a decision making factor unless you're a serious racer, for absolutely everyone else the [i]only[/i] factor is which one you like more. But you don't know which yet.
When you're used to clippless getting out is not a problem -you do it without thinking. I've fallen off my MTB a fair few times and always have come out of the clips - not sure if this is by design or me unclipping myself without thinking, but I have never failed to come apart from my bike when i've fallen off.
ultimately it's what you're used to and whatever gives you confidence. I would just feel unsafe on flats i've been riding clipless for so long.
Don't like spds off road but I haven't really tried a proper pair with platform pedals and all that. I think I might like it ad I hate having my foot in the wrong position when on flats.
What Is The Most Efficient Pedalling Style? We Test Flat Vs. Clipless Pedals | GCN Does Science
I can't stand being on a bike if I'm not clipped in. Road or MTB - I just don't feel safe.
Clipless pedals became second nature pretty quickly - as soon as they were available as an option to toe-clips & straps (never got the hang of them), I was in there!
Never had a problem being attached to the bike in a crash - 99% of the time, both feet are out before I hit the deck.
I guess it's what you're used to and the style of riding you do, but I can't ride flats and have no wish to. The only time I can see them being necessary is on North Shore style obstacles and big jumps, where you may need to bail.
http://roadcyclinguk.com/riding/bike-fitting-the-myth-of-the-upstroke.html#hgclfOxYzEobG2Zc.97
http://www.bikejames.com/strength/top-3-clipless-pedal-myths/
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Which-Muscles-are-Really-Used-During-the-Pedal-Stroke-2012.html
http://velocitysportscycling.com/cycling-myth-busting-from-team-sky/
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/fitness/training/how-to-pedal-efficiently-173185
Its funny that franki because im the opposite! Off road anyway I find I back off completely if i'm clipped in because I cant move about like I want to and dont 'feel' safe.
Lack of 'practice' maybe? I dunno.
As for always coming out of the clips when you crash - nope. Been there and had a very awkward crash which would have been very minor if my feet weren't attached!
Ill have a look at that vid later. Too long for right now but looks interesting.
Most people I ride with who ride clipped in use It as an excuse to not ride anything really steep, not do jumps and drops
Then they are just looking for excuses! I jump my bike clipped in. Because I've been doing it long enough it's second nature. You find that a little twist of the foot is so instinctive after a while that your foot is always free when it needs to be.
Jumps etc are better on flats (with appropriate shift in technique) but for me the disadvantages of flats outweigh the advantages. I find that for good flat usage I needed soft soled shoes, which are horrible to pedal far in. SPD shoes are much stiffer.
It's not so much about pulling up on the upstroke, it's about smoother pedalling, closer to circles. Also your feet can't slip off when clipped in. Mangled shins? I have none.
You sexist pig.
Oh yeah - I'll second the above. With multi-release cleats on minimum tension your foot should basically fall out on its own - so if you still can't unclip easily something is up with your shoes or cleat position or something.
It's the 10 to 1 o'clock position where clipless give you an advantage.
With multi-release cleats on minimum tension your foot should basically fall out on its own
Surely this is the worst of both worlds? Getting your feet out of clipless is easy once you've mastered it.
Yes, but I was just pointing out to the OP that he may have a shoe issue.
Its funny that franki because im the opposite! Off road anyway I find I back off completely if i'm clipped in because I cant move about like I want to and dont 'feel' safe.
My worry is my feet slipping or bouncing off the pedals if I'm not clipped-in.
I'm very much an XC rider though - I like climbing as much as descending and I'm not interested in jumps and the like.
I'm on flats off road
Clipped in on the road (but I have doubled sided pedals so I can do local pottering around or supermarket runs in normal shoes)
Do off road crashes end up worse because your feet are attached to the bike?
Only the ones where you fall off sideways in the car-park.Do off road crashes end up worse because your feet are attached to the bike?
I haven't fallen off clipped in for decades. In proper crashes, my feet always come out regardless, and I'm not really sure how!
Do off road crashes end up worse because your feet are attached to the bike?
dunno, it doesn't happen.
The overwhelming benefit (especially on the road) for me, is that you can relax your feet, it's amazing how tense they need to be on flats, and how much just doing that makes to how tense the rest of your body is.
nickc - Memberdunno, it doesn't happen.
Yes it does. Seen some nasty ones including a guy with a dislocated kneecap having his pedal unscrewed by paramedics so they could extract him from the bike. (easier than the shoe, apparently) And some funny ones where (frexample) WIll went over the bars at 1imp and got stuck on his nose.
It's not common, though.
sorry, i should've probably said
doesn't happen "to me". My bike seems to be magically somewhere else when I'm crashing 😆
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/why-you-dont-want-to-push-through-the-ball-of-your-foot-when-you-pedal-2014.html
Sounds like a pretty simplistic argument to me, not least because if I try and squat while keeping my feet flat on the floor I fall over backwards.
That's just a balance/flexibility thing. I can squat flat footed if i need too.
And ball of your foot over pedal axle was fairly thoroughly debunked 10 odd years ago. Even for those clipped in.
Pretty much like KOPS, which is still trotted out by a good percentage of bike "fitters".
I'm in the road=clipless/MTB=flats club too, for extra irony I use MTB SPDs on the racer. Everyone who uses clipless has had a "Delboy falls through the bar trap" moment, I'd bet my feet on it. :),
The overwhelming benefit (especially on the road) for me, is that you can relax your feet, it's amazing how tense they need to be on flats, and how much just doing that makes to how tense the rest of your body is.
This is a large part of it for me. Not having to worry about what your feet are doing. Not fidgeting about. Just purely concentrating on the movement of your legs. Everything becomes so simple.
That's on the road. And on the road I don't see a whole lot of reasons NOT to ride clipped in.
Off-road, I think there are a lot of advantages and disadvantages both ways. Some of which have been pointed out already. So it ultimately comes down to your riding style and what you prefer.
I swing both ways and ride both flats and SPDs off-road. Not inherently more comfortable in either, but to echo Junkyard's thoughts really;
* I find I have increased control on slippery-steep climbs with SPDs, being able to pull-up easily (it's a different action to the scooping action on flats) makes the power to the back wheel smoother.
* For me flats come into their own when I've had to dab and want to carry on riding. Almost the only reason I crash and can blame the SPDs, it's because I'm not clipped in properly and trying to ride a steep techy bit.
* I prefer the smaller pedal size of SPDs. Less to hook up.
* I don't have any of teh Rad skillz whether I'm on flats or SPDs. Sad times. 🙁
Keep giving SPDs a go. It's nice to try something different. Fat bike, singlespeed, SPDs, flats.. it's all good as long as it's a bit of a challenge and you're having fun.
Mtbtom +1 with a different spin of personal preferences
Pedally stuff and winter slop give me Spds (overshoes being enough of an argument for Spds on their own!) or a long day on the bike for pedalling efficiency from the stiffer soles of the shoes.
Farting about fun riding or pedal up and blast down flats are good.
Flowy/fast singletrack either is good.
No need for it to be black and white.
Clips are just to much hassle i used them in the past but i like to just get on and go.
I prefer clipped in on the road, not so much for being clipped in but because it's easier to get nice stiff soled shoes to work well with spd type pedals, so my feet don't get as tired on longer rides.
I did use toeclips and cleats back in my youth but they are harder to find nowadays and simply not as easy to use.
Of road, I made the switch from clipped in to flat pedals a couple of years ago after nearly 20 years and I find it so much better on technical stuff, mainly because of the ability to quickly get my foot on and off, and to reposition it.. Don't notice the effects of softer soles quite as much too, but that's more because I don't tend to do much more than 20 or so miles at a time on the mtb.
Horses for courses, but worth persevering past the initial faff just to see it if actually does work for you...
There's no reason to use spds if you happily use flats. They won't make you better or faster. A lot of my riding is incredibly steep and slippery and flats work best, why change?
I'd move on to thinking about something else.
I could have a think about calendars I suppose!
Actually, that's another good question point though, presumably because of the stiff soles and lack of foot movement, I find my feet get much colder when clipped in.
To be fair, its been shit all round and there doesn't seem to be a massive incentive to persevere.
Meh.
I've run clipless on the road for years so SPD felt more natural on mtb.
But I did start to have issues running spd recently when I got my first northwave boot. Even running new cleats there is a lot more twist needed to release. Suspect the cleats are more recessed but this could be related to why you couldn't release even on a low tension.
I've been using SPDs off-road for years now and am unlikely to change due to cost of switching. One of my favourite things about SPDs is they rarely hit the ground when riding in ruts.
Everywhere you turn lately there seems to be someone preaching about the "pulling up myth", it seems rather assumptive. I've tried intentionally pulling up but it doesn't last long as it's unintuitive and quickly forgotten. And it wears me out in no time at all due to rapidly increasing cadence. So basically I never do it - unless there's a subconscious effort to do so but I suspect that would only be quite minimal.
I like them fairly loose, only just tight enough to prevent them popping out when doing jumps/drops/etc. Staying clipped-in at the wrong time only seems to happen during those slow bungling fall-over moments. Mainly.
Tried flats a little while ago on a borrowed bike and nearly jumped over the handlebars trying to do a bunnyhop.
😉Tried flats a little while ago on a borrowed bike and nearly jumped over the handlebars trying to do a [b]lazy [/b]bunnyhop.
SPDs for MTB racing* and road for me
Flats for commuting and general MTB* and trials
I think recognising the benefits of both, while choosing what is right for you is the key. If you only use one type then obviously the other is going to feel weird/wrong and you'll be lacking in the technique (for that type), but that doesn't make the other type wrong, and you've not got some magic all over advantage. I'm a big believer in using both, where appropriate in your own personal judgement.
*with occasional SPD MTB rides thrown in
It seems too much of a faff to me to have a mix of flats and clipped, especially since i've only one MTB. Some have said what's the point of moving to lipless. The same argue applies about going to flats from clippless. Once you're used to clipless pedals then what's the benefit of flats? Once you're used to clipless you can get out of them instantly without a thought.
Ultimately its what you're used to and as glasgowdan say's just use what you're used to and get on with it. If you have a particular desire to change then go for it.
wobbliscott - MemberOnce you're used to clipless pedals then what's the benefit of flats?
Thing is, yes SPDs mean you don't have to think about footwork, soft legs, jumping properly etc. But does that mean you shouldn't? The same techniques that make flats work, are also almost all useful on SPDs- better SPD riders are still using them even though they don't need to. I doubt there's a pro mtb rider in the world who couldn't seamlessly ride in flats frinstance even though most choose spds for performance reasons.
Basically it all adds up to riding with the bike, in partnership with it, rather than having to be held on because you're doing something different to it. And the forces that would have blown your foot off if you were wearing flats don't go away just because you're bolted on- they still unsettle the bike and they still leave you riding less smoothly. If you can't bunnyhop on flats, frinstance then you can't bunnyhop full stop and that's a whole useful subset of skills that you're missing out on just because you have a workaround.
Whether you care or not of course is your business and I don't mean that cheekily- if you're happy with your riding, nothing wrong with that. But I learned a lot about pedalling and commitment from SPDs then took that back to my flats (and a mate learned to stop constantly dabbing after years of thinking it made him faster) and anyone who gets on flats and discovers they can't ride, could learn a lot from flats then transfer that back to SPDs and ride better.
So I honestly reckon anyone who's interested in riding well should learn both. I don't mean try- do, there is no try, practically nobody swaps pedals and instantly likes it. It's undermining and distracting and makes you ride like a less good rider. You should expect not to like it. And then once you're skilled with both you'll know for sure that you're using the one that's best for you, and most likely you'll transfer valuable skills and experience back to the other.
Soft legs, jumping properly etc. applies to riding clipped in too - you can actually feel that when you get it right - if you're not fighting the bike or the trail then you've got it right. I've always ridden clipped in, but also have learned the benefit of good technique (know the theory but not always able to put it into practice, that's why I keep trying and why i'm not a pro). Being clipped in can let you get away with bad habbitts, but if you have a desire to improve, you will learn the best technique whether you are clipped in or not. it is not a prerequisite that in order to learn good technique you have to do it on flats.