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Straw clutching? where else are they sat right next to loads of other kids in a poorly ventilated room for an hour?
Well I've heard a few stories recently of kids having sleepovers. One mother nearby apparently said, "She wanted it for her birthday so what could I do"... Say no? Thing is in each of those cases at least 2 parents have agreed.
Scouts, BB’s, Bike Club, Air Cadets, Football, Golf are all up and running here.
And just to confirm Matt's not in some weird bubble of covid ignorance - that is the norm here (until Level 4 restrictions), and add Dance Classes, Swimming lessons, Art/Craft stuff etc too. From what I can see the level of Covid Secureness at those is variable - probably depending on the subjective views of those in charge locally.
We also let them meet outside (it's amazing, it's almost like the 80s when teenagers hung around the parks/streets!) but it's bloody miserable weather so inevitably they will congregate where they can get some shelter - a bus shelter, under a bridge, someone's garage... and all this is unsupervised (so don't expect even notional social distancing or consistent mask-wearing), probably involving shouting/singing/laughing as kids should. And there's definitely some illicit car-sharing going on too. Anecdotally those who have had to self isolate locally are mostly not the "at school contacts" but the out of school ones.
You can’t catch the virus by sitting in an enclosed room… the statistics are clear…
Eh?
continue to exclude kids who test negative despite being told not to get tested.
the public (and perhaps politicians) don't want to hear that you should still isolate after a negative - and that's not surprising 2 weeks in isolation for a whole family is a huge pita even if it's not hurting you financially. That was the hysteria around testing in April - and its why PHE/DHSC were caught off guard on test capacity - they only wanted to test where there was a clinical need, but the public felt entitled to test because they believed it would free them up when it doesn't.
100% of positive tests are made AFTER testing
Of course. They cant be made before testing.
The virus can be best controlled by NOT testing…. especially in kids who are likely to be asymptomatic
Oh. my. god.
That sounds like when Trump said to stop testing people so the number of cases go down.
Also, asymptomatic people can spread it.
> WHOOSH <
Eh?
Schools are SAFE, it's impossible to catch SARS-COV-19 in a school.
This is why PHE keep telling the school no matter how many positive cases no need for anyone else in the same class to self isolate because they didn't catch it in school and it's impossible to do so.
Of course. They cant be made before testing.
> WHOOSH <
So how to control the spread of the virus?
If only there was a way of preventing kids testing positive?
and its why PHE/DHSC were caught off guard on test capacity – they only wanted to test where there was a clinical need, but the public felt entitled to test because they believed it would free them up when it doesn’t.
Yep because someone who tests negative twice, a week apart is obviously far more at risk of spreading this virus than someone who hasn't been tested. Good British Common Sense... no need to "ask the scientists"
Wait.. hold on ....
If only there was a way of preventing kids testing positive?
What if most kids that contract SARS-Cov19 are asymptomatic ...
What if we prevent them getting tested....
Oooohhhh we can make it illegal for them to get tested... what if we send them home to their family but don't let them leave the house .. then they can't go and get tested and if they can't get tested then they can't have the virus. Bish bosh ole fella... (or whatever choice of infantile language Boris uses to tell people)
Fortunately as with most of our governments incompetence there is a bit of a flaw....
They can ignore negative tests and pretend they are invalid but they can't easily ignore positive ones and if you pay privately you can get tested at home without symptoms.
Hence why I now have an 11yr old sat in the next room... because a bunch of parents got asymptomatic kids tested....and surprise surprise lots tested positive and they had to close the year.
Luckily non of these kids had brothers or sisters that could possibly infected others before they got tested ... oops.
One of the other schools got closed after some selfish grandparents who were also carers had the selfishness to get infected and pass the virus on top the school ... I guess they won't be prosecuted as they are dead but they obviously deserve what they got. The families are real ****s they are claiming that the asymptomatic child was infected at school and infected the grandparents who had been isolating other than the grandchild going to school. Like seriously what tossers... don't they realise schools are safe?
stevextc... your heavy and repeated sarcasm can make it a bit tricky to decipher the actual point you're trying to make. especially if just dipping into the thread
EDIT just re-read it and still mystified. "Illegal to get tested" .... eh ??
Darn it, I swore I wouldn't get drawn into this thread again..
The head of one local primary has been getting quite fruity with their language when it comes to being repeatedly refused tests for his pupils, while his staff are dropping like flies with positive tests.
The thing is, this is exactly what was promised... wide scale testing for schools, together with a tier system to cope with local outbreaks identified via testing... neither have happened, schools have just been left to cope with the spread. And by "cope", I mean pretend it's not happening, and just watch staff and pupil levels dwindle. They're left with closing years and moving to mixed learning "as a result of positive tests" only after enough parents pay for testing for their kids after falling ill themselves... schools can't act based on the widespread testing that hasn't happened, or move through the tiers that the government set out, and the government then refused to actually let them use, and finally this week binned completely. Schools, their staff, their pupils, the family of pupils... all have been lied to and abandoned by this government.
And how about schools trying to shut early for Xmas, because they are very short staffed, pupils are receiving second rate learning at best because of that, and to give pupils and staff alike some time to isolate before the government sanctioned xmas get togethers? They've been told they can't and... in stevextc speak... it's illegal for them to take such a (common sense?) (science led?) (people first?) (joined up thinking) (grown up?) measure.
We seem to be getting letters, well emails, almost daily from my eldest's comprehensive with news of another COVID positive.
They have only been isolating close contacts, generally form groups, though kids are mixing form groups in streamed subjects.
Last week they sent all of Year 9 home as they didn't have enough teachers to staff the whole school. This week they managed 2 days before sending Yr8 home.
It's abundantly clear that the Gov have decided that allowing schools to close would be deemed "failure".
Oh and at my youngest's primary school they seem to have been having a bit a flair up in Yr3 but hardly any siblings/family members are getting tested apart from the the kid with symptoms.
They have only been isolating close contacts
Schools are told what to do by PHE.
2 dead vulnerable carers from COVID-19 at a local school already but that’s a small price to pay
The mine wouldn't be safe without the canaries.
paul0
your heavy and repeated sarcasm can make it a bit tricky to decipher the actual point you’re trying to make.
Wits end here....
EDIT just re-read it and still mystified. “Illegal to get tested” …. eh ??
If someone is told to self isolate they can't leave the house which for kids is except if they have symptoms to go and get tested. So if they are asymptomatic it's essentially illegal to get tested on a government test unless they lie and say they have symptoms (which might be an offense - who knows).
But even if they do and have 5 negative tests they must still self isolate so a huge disinsentive to get tested privately.
kelvin
The thing is, this is exactly what was promised… wide scale testing for schools, together with a tier system to cope with local outbreaks identified via testing… neither have happened, schools have just been left to cope with the spread. And by “cope”, I mean pretend it’s not happening, and just watch staff and pupil levels dwindle.
billoddie
They have only been isolating close contacts, generally form groups, though kids are mixing form groups in streamed subjects.
Last week they sent all of Year 9 home as they didn’t have enough teachers to staff the whole school. This week they managed 2 days before sending Yr8 home.
It’s abundantly clear that the Gov have decided that allowing schools to close would be deemed “failure”.
As Kelvin said they promised and utterly failed to deliver the testing to even hope to have schools return. As I said way back I don't think they ever could but they promised it anyway....but under-delivered hugely on even what I thought they might manage. (abnd I wasn't expecting a lot)
Jnr's school have made zero efforts, threats to send children home who wear masks in class.... forcing kids to touch each other ... and the counltess notification emaiuls about how thewy have more cases but noone else needs to self isolate....
Then Sunday they sent another email ... a whole bunch (number not disclosed but "at least one asymptomatic") of kids had tested positive. This was worded like a new discovery .... like they hadn't realised this was the case all along. (and what does "at least one" mean)
Schools are told what to do by PHE.
Not to put too fine a point on it but that excuse was dismissed at Nuremberg....
and what does “at least one” mean
A non-zero number of people.
dismissed at Nuremberg
You say that, but schools that act beyond guidance are being slapped down with threats of legal action.
Not to put too fine a point on it but that excuse was dismissed at Nuremberg….
Do try and grow up
You say that, but schools that act beyond guidance are being slapped down with threats of legal action.
Going along the same theme that's what the Nazi's said about their families etc. and was also probably true. Just following orders hasn't been a valid defense for decades especially when it's knowingly killing people.
This threatened legal action doesn't apply to expensive private schools ...
but ultimately this is manslaughter, heads know they have a huge number of asymptomatic kids and that some of them have vulnerable carers or siblings but they threaten them anyway with fines and legal action.
They are messing with semantics ... just like I said in another post where I said it would become increasingly important. It's like someone with HIV saying they don't have AIDS so it's OK to have unprotected sex.
A non-zero number of people.
Perfect example.... pure semantics. Is it one or ten or 50 ??
It's a very strange term IMHO to have used.
threaten them anyway with fines and legal action.
Exactly where is this happening?
Exactly where is this happening?
We had multiple letters from stating children refusing to remove masks will be sent home to a reminder of the absence policy.
but ultimately this is manslaughter, heads know they have a huge number of asymptomatic kids and that some of them have vulnerable carers or siblings but they threaten them anyway with fines and legal action.
What school has threaten to fine people and take legal action? Over what?
We had multiple letters from stating children refusing to remove masks will be sent home to a reminder of the absence policy.
In English?
We had multiple letters from stating children refusing to remove masks will be sent home to a reminder of the absence policy.
Eh? I was referring to fines for absence. Our LA won’t go anywhere near fines this year, not that we want to.
Eh? I was referring to fines for absence.
We got sent a "reminder" of the absence policy ...
Our LA won’t go anywhere near fines this year, not that we want to.
That's another story.... will they actually issue them and if they did what happens if you refuse to pay up? Are they willing to go to court or not, I suspect not but the threat is there?
The wording was in one PDF and something like "we would like to take the opportunity and remind parents of the schools absence policy we have enclosed" no mention of special circumstances.
The quarantine information (pinned up min kitchen) has
"We have travelled to a different area" the answer is (in bold caps) DO NOT TAKE UNAUTHORISED LEAVE DURING TERM TIME
e.g.
"A non-zero number of people".
This to me doesn't sound like everyday English ... of the sort used to inform parents.
Quite honestly it's the sort of language I expect to see in contract's that gets spotted and thrown out.
In English?
Our school, comms are not written in "English", indeed I don' think the COVID ones are actually written by the school rather they are written for them in deliberately vague language.
e.g.
"A non-zero number of people".
Do you honestly think that is clear English to inform parents?
Do try and grow up
You realise this is killing vulnerable people ...
Quite honestly it's like saying you didn't realise where the trains were going but you'd only heard rumours.
You realise this is killing vulnerable people …
It is I am very aware, I am in a school every day. The schools are not responsible for government policy. You trying to make out I am something akin to a Nazi murderer because I work in a school is laughable childish nonsense.
Steve.
I get the gist of your argument and where your coming from.
I think your going too far now with your comparisons. And it's starting to look like a personal attack, which isn't on.
Would be worth going for a ride, or something little that, for a bit.
It is I am very aware, I am in a school every day. The schools are not responsible for government policy. You trying to make out I am something akin to a Nazi murderer because I work in a school is laughable childish nonsense.
No I'm just pointing out that those people that herded people onto trains had all the same reasons and they weren't murderers they were mostly people with families that had consequences to them not following orders and had they objected as individuals they would just be replaced with someone else. These conscripts and reluctant soldiers didn't make the rules either and the Gestapo and Allgemeine Schutzstaffel were there to ensure compliance.
I think your going too far now with your comparisons. And it’s starting to look like a personal attack, which isn’t on.
It's absolutely not personal and sorry to AA if that seems to be the case... if only AA was the only person following instructions they know to be incorrect because they have to follow instructions but this is endemic in the UK today.
Nothing to do with the current epidemic it seems that huge numbers of people are "just doing their job and not asking the wrong questions" and those that do get shat on. Senior civil servants resigning when they are told to break the law whilst others flourish because they happily go against their beliefs.
This coinciding with the epidemic is perhaps poor luck....
We have members of Sage being told what they can say and not say as "scientific advice"
Councils doing what the government tell them or else...
Schools doing what PHE tell them or else.... etc.
Over a decade ago I remember my friends father who escaped Nazi Germany as a boy talking about both the madness of the time and how he saw it returning.
Sadly his perspective was that we as the human race have spent longer like this than not. He recounted McCarthyism in his youth in the US, Stalinism in the Soviet union and literally dozens of historical examples.. including his own exclusion when he married a non-Jew.
I think I disagreed at the time but I'm sadly and reluctantly coming to think perhaps he was correct and this is perhaps a natural state for humans... and as he put it something along the lines of "people are just more comfortable acting like frightened sheep"
So sorry AA, it's not personal ... almost everyone in most professions are doing the same thing.
All you can do is try not to tell direct lies... try not too hard to chase up kids who don't turn up... just don't try and defend policies and facts you know to be a lie. At the least you can say "I've been told I must say" or similar.
So sorry AA, it’s not personal
Then stop equating me to a nazi gassing Jews you colossal ****tard!
Everybody chill.
Steve, complainants about schools/teachers “following orders” can also be levelled at parents. We took the difficult decision to keep our number two child at home today, as there are many kids in his year testing positive, and all his friends have been told to stay home. If you have school age children, there is no point calling for school staff to go against government instruction, while we refuse to do so ourselves.
Then stop equating me to a nazi gassing Jew you colossal ****!
I didn't .. reread what I wrote.
The Schutzstaffel (SS) were the ones who did and oversaw the gassing, the Nazi's didn't trust the common Germans. The common Germans were just regular scared people like us. Poor sods caught up in something they couldn't control. The SS were the truly deranged believers.
Perhaps you didn't make that distinction ... or I pre-assumed knowledge. To me there is a HUGE distinction between those who were gleefully gassing Jews (and many others) and those who were forced and coerced.
It's a shit position to be in... you didn't choose that position nor make up the rules...
All I am asking is that you do not deliberately lie to parents or if you are forced to do
this then at least try and convey the "this is what I was told to tell you" when you know it to be untrue or misleading.
Kelvin
Steve, complainants about schools/teachers “following orders” can also be levelled at parents. We took the difficult decision to keep our number two child at home today, as there are many kids in his year testing positive, and all his friends have been told to stay home. If you have school age children, there is no point calling for school staff to go against government instruction, while we refuse to do so ourselves.
I completely agree....
Nor is this only schools or education.... (see the thread where the STWer is being told to send his kids put in isolation into childcare)
Put aside schools for now.... we are seeing this at every level. The chief nurse being excluded from press conferences, SAGE being told what they can and can't say.... it's a whole shitstorm with the birds at the top pooping downwards and pushing the poo downwards.
As I said months(?) ago the whole thing will get blamed on the teachers... I'm not blaming them I'm simply saying only tow the line so far... if a parent asks then say "what I've been told to tell you is ...."
Email from eldest Oddie's Comp. 12 new cases today, 11 in Year 9! That's a new high! Unsurprisingly they have told Yr 9 to self isolate for 2 weeks.
School has a sixth form too, so has about 1200 pupils.
Rather than start a new thread...
Been hearing rumours that our SLT aren't expecting to reopen to all students until Easter now.
🙁
Believable. I am on the Shielding list. If I get my vaccination mid February, I won't have developed the fullest immunity possible until 2 weeks later. That will be the start of March. Add in time for slippage and time to see numbers fall in a sustained way and I think the earliest we can resume in school is after Easter.
I think the earliest we can resume in school is after Easter.
13 kids attending local primary school out of the usual 30'ish kids. Teacher expected to teach those in front of her whilst also juggling the rest of class via Teams. Similar numbers across all year groups. I'd say school has already resumed ! (My daughters secondary school appears much tougher on allowing them in)
[this is North Yorkshire, England]
I'm expecting Easter, tbh.
Village primary school running at just under 50% full according to a friend working there. Secondary schools well down on that, but suspect a lot of older kids are home alone.
An email from assistant principle mentioned that easter was likely.
Also it been proposed in a meeting today that we work through the summer, as well as continue online learning now. Oh and we are to be subjected to regular online teaching check.
Nothing like being motivated.
Also it been proposed in a meeting today that we work through the summer, as well as continue online learning now
Where do you work? That sounds nuts.
Teacher expected to teach those in front of her whilst also juggling the rest of class via Teams
I assume this is England somewhere. The unions in Scotland have been really clear that shouldn't be happening and in fact the authority I work in hasn't even suggested it as they realise it's totally unsustainable. It's one or the other for us, supervising in the keyworker hubs or online teaching from home.
Not to put too fine a point on it but that excuse was dismissed at Nuremberg….
PMSL at that.
17 pages to hit Godwins law.
National education charity here and we're planning Easter for any significant work back in schools and early years settings.
September we're still planning a few restrictions to be in place.
I think post Easter is likely, and probably right. Too many kids in school at the moment though, wifes secondary its mainly year 7, attendance drops rapidly from year 8 onwards. I know of at least one family who've sent their kids to school, he's a self employed electrician who isn't working, she works for a care home, as an accountant, she's worked from home for months, still they've decided they are key workers. Definition needs to be properly reduced and policed to genuine key workers, NHS, blue light services, key council services, teachers and key support staff. Not going to happen though.
Definition needs to be properly reduced and policed to genuine key workers, NHS, blue light services, key council services, teachers and key support staff. Not going to happen though.
Seems to be a good bit tighter in Scotland,we've hardly got any kids in. 25 out of nearly 600 and teachers told they didn't qualify if they were WFH.
We've got about 15% in (just under 150 out 1000 students).
More from ks3 obviously.
I know the school has been quite strict with the criteria.
My daughter's primary on the other hand.... nearly 50% attending.
Quite a few suspect 'key workers'.
Off the record whisper from our trust is also Easter to plan for any significant number of students back in school...