[Closed] Religion...

Sorry if this one has been done

I forgive you

It's always a shame when this smart kind of humour is undermined by getting a few underlying facts and assumptions wrong.

should be on the national curriculum syllabus...

I forgive you

Brilliant 🙂

Sorry if this one has been done

*cough*

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/the-oatmeal-does-religion

(-:

That's very good.

As an aside, I also think poetry should be banned, because it doesn't make sense, and is sometimes ungrammatical.

Also, art. I don't understand that, either, and some artists seem a bit weird.

...undermined by getting a few underlying facts and assumptions wrong.

Really? What parts were wrong? There were undoubtedly a few exaggerations for comedic affect but there wasn't much that I saw a wrong.

Well, one would be that people vote according to what is best for them as an individual, rather than society as a whole

then the eating of the fruit, which wasn't really the bad thing

Really? What parts were wrong?

Some lazy stereotyping. And possibly some mixing up of Christianity with Creationism.

but there wasn't much that I saw a wrong

and there in a nutshell is the problem. There are things that you don't see as wrong that others see as completely wrong - e.g. how religion is discussed with children/the galilleo thing etc. We have had endless threads on this and they always end up the same way 🙁

Well, one would be that people vote according to what is best for them as an individual, rather than society as a whole

Some lazy stereotyping. And possibly some mixing up of Christianity with Creationism.

Wow, are the jokes you guys tell always 100% factually correct with no exaggeration? It's a cartoon, not a documentary.

There are things that you don't see as wrong that others see as completely wrong

I meant wrong in the "factually correct or not" rather than the moral sense. Poor use of language on my part.

[img] [/img]

Wow, are the jokes you guys tell always 100% factually correct with no exaggeration? It's a cartoon, not a documentary.

no but the structure of the joke has to work otherwise it distracts from the humour. A bit straw mannish,

but also it just undermines the strength of the joke

Graham > would that be "jokes are like frogs" perchance?

for example

Alex Ferguson is very worried about his Manchester City players who seem a bit sluggish so he asks the teams psychologist what he can do.
"Keep their minds alert by firing off questions at them all the time; that's what we used to do when I was at Liverpool."
"Like what?" asks Fergie
"Well mind puzzles; for example, like 'I am my fathers son but not my brother - who am I?", was the reply.
Fergie went off happy with the idea but couldn't puzzle out the riddle himself and wanted to make sure he knew the answer so he called Arsene Wenger at Liverpool to ask him....

[i]Really? What parts were wrong? [/i]

They're trying to make out that cyclists are mormons.

Yeah, there shouldn't be the second 'm'

Some lazy stereotyping. And possibly some mixing up of Christianity with Creationism.

Isn't that the point of the cartoon? That if you fulfill the roles depicted (indoctrinating children, promoting creationism over science) then you suck at religion - therefore, if you don't do those things then although you may be religious, but you don't suck at religion.

It's worth bearing in mind that The Oatmeal is based in the US, where they do have proper scary right-wing Christian nut-jobs (in some states they're trying to prevent birth control from being available, never mind abortion, gays are banned from being in the Scouts, etc).

But artists don't knock on your door trying to convince you to starting painting daffodils.

What set my atheism in stone...

I was decorating the ceiling in my first house... I was up a stepladder and the carpet was neatly rolled up beneath. The door bell rang. In my haste to answer it I jumped from the top of the ladder, landed half on the rolled up carpet and ripped the tendon out of my ankle. It was the worst pain I've ever felt in my life and put me on crutches for 6 weeks - I was a freelance journo back then making my living producing route guides for mags and this put me out of work for 6 weeks.

So who was at the door?

Jehova's Witnesses.

I blame religion for my broken ankle and loss of income. Thinking about it I should sue for damages!

😉

SamCooke - There is a difference between messing up the punchline of a crap joke and an incitefull and cutting comic that has room for some patheitic and irelevant pedantry.

And I dare say the power of the pedant will provide a crap load more publicity.

the punchline of the Fergie joke is not affected by the details, but it works better if the details are correct

Me and AdamW are sorry about all the nickleback albums.

*scratches head*

Am I missing something with that football joke?

SamCooke - No it doesn't. The "funny" thing is that fergie doesn't know the answer. It doesn't matter whether the reader knows Wenger is actually the Liverpool manager or not. You could have said Bendan Rogders, Arsenal or Joe Bloggs. It makes no odds to the puchline...

Unless you are a pedant, in which case you focus on the minute and inconsiquential detail but miss the wider point that is trying to be made that Alex Ferguson is also a bit thick.

So actually your analogy is quite useful.

Edit: Oh and what was wrong with Millwall as you originally wrote.

It makes no odds to the puchline..

Edit: Oh and what was wrong with Millwall as you originally wrote.

and that is exactly my point, I changed it and then you don't like it

Graham > would that be "jokes are like frogs" perchance?

Don't make me explain it 😉

jokes are like worms

Quality - Ive copied it out and invited my work mates to draw the prophet mohamhed on the blank page just to spice it up a bit.

🙂

It doesn't but it does affect the flow of the joke.

Edit: Oh and what was wrong with Millwall as you originally wrote.

and that is exactly my point, I changed it and then you don't like it

WTF? I found it wierd that you had gone back and changed it for no reason. Now I know that you changed it to try to score some inconsiquential points I find it more weird. However it made no difference to my understanding of the "joke" or the point you are trying to make.

My point is that the oatmeal using a small bit of poetic licence to make his point more straight forward in no way diracts from the overall message of the comic. Only a pedant would think it might.

It wasn't to score a point, but to make one. But you admit it is a distraction, that there may have been some reason for saying Liverpool and not Millwall. Same way as you might wonder if putting Fergie in charge of Man City was relevant to the joke or not,and not seeing that it wasn't, only when you hear the punchline.

*scratches head*

Am I missing something with that football joke?

It's only the start of the joke.

Alex Fergusson is very worried about Manchester United players who seem a bit sluggish so he asks the teams psychologist what he can do.
"Keep their minds alert by firing off questions at them all the time; that's what we used to do when I was at Arsenal."
"Like what?" asks Fergie
"Well mind puzzles; for example, like 'I am my fathers son but not my brother - who am I?", was the reply.
Fergie went off happy with the idea but couldn't puzzle out the riddle himself and wanted to make sure he knew the answer so he called Arsene Wenger at Arsenal to ask him.
"Can you help me with this riddle", asked Fergie, "I am my father's son but not my brother - who am I?' ",
"Obvious", replied Arsene Wenger, "It's me"
"Thanks", said Fergie and resolved to try this out on the first player he saw, which turned out to be Rio Ferdinan
"Rio, a new mental regime we're starting; you have to answer the following questions - OK"
"OK boss - yeh fire away", said Rio
"I am my father's son but not my brother - who am I?", asked Fergie
Rio thought for a while
"Ah, don't know boss", he said
"Well go home home and think about it and tell me tomorrow." said Fergie
Rio puzzled over the riddle all night and eventually rang his mate Dwight Yorke.
"Boss's has set me a question I can't answer", said Rio, "can you help me?"
"Glad to!", said Yorke.
"I am my fathers son but not my brother - who am I?", asked Rio.
Obvious", said Yorke, "It's me"
Next morning Rio drops into Fergie's office
"Have you figured out the riddle yet", asked Fergie, "I am my father's son but not my brother - who am I?"
"Yes Boss, It's Dwight Yorke", replied Rio!
"Don't be stupid", snapped Fergie, "It's Arsene Wenger!"

It wasn't to score a point, but to make one. But you admit it is a distraction, that there may have been some reason for saying Liverpool and not Millwall. Same way as you might wonder if putting Fergie in charge of Man City was relevant to the joke or not,and not seeing that it wasn't, only when you hear the punchline.

Ever head the phrase "stretching the analogy"?

The distraction was not from the point you were trying to make but to wonder what strange reasoning you may have for changing one wrong statement to another. If The Oatmeal had gone in and changed his comic for no obvious reason I admit that may distract from his point, but he hasn't. So I realy don't see what the wierd edit has relevance to what you are trying to show.

Only now we are arguing about your weird "joke" and unfathomable pedantry rather than relflecting on the message in the comic which is rather brilliant.

It's only the start of the joke.

Aha. That makes more sense, thank you (-:

As for the 'getting a few facts wrong'; the strip doesn't say "this is what religious people think", it says (paraphrasing) "[b]if[/b] you think this, then you might want to reconsider; if you don't, cool, enjoy your religion"

It's not stating any facts at all. There's nothing for it to be getting wrong.

It's not stating any facts at all. There's nothing for it to be getting wrong.

Indeedy. +1

Also it doesn't say (as SamCooke suggested) [i]"that people vote according to what is best for them as an individual, rather than society as a whole"[/i] either.

It just shows two voters, on opposing sides, so caught up in headline rhetoric that they can't offer any real political opinion or thought.

There. I think I can see the frog's spleen now. 😆

As for the 'getting a few facts wrong'; the strip doesn't say "this is what religious people think", it says (paraphrasing) "if you think this, then you might want to reconsider; if you don't, cool, enjoy your religion"

Sure, but if the strip get its humour from satirising beliefs, it would be better if it chose beliefs which people actually held.

it would be better if it chose beliefs which people actually held.

If you don't think people hold those beliefs then you need to spend more time on American websites: political, religious or otherwise!

Sure, but if the strip get its humour from satirising beliefs, it would be better if it chose beliefs which people actually held.

You actually [b]KNOW[/b] what everyone's beliefs are worldwide?!?! Wow, I'm impressed!

It's satirising widely held beliefs. Just, perhaps, not yours.

As someone else has said, it's worth remembering that Matthew Inman is American (or at least, the site is based there), so The Oatmeal will be satirising American beliefs primarily, not Brits.

There are other comics about cats if that's more to your liking?

Here's some.

http://www.thepoke.co.uk/2012/05/13/the-16-greatest-animal-photobombs/

It's satirising widely held beliefs. Just, perhaps, not yours.

No, not my beliefs but that's never been my point. For example there are few people, even amongst the Christian community, here or in the US who believe for example that eating the fruit was a bad thing. That is not a widely held belief, it is in fact a widely held misconception that this is what Christians believe. I understand the point of the satirisation, but think that it missed the target somewhat, probably.

You actually KNOW what everyone's beliefs are worldwide?!?! Wow, I'm impressed!

Well,i'm not the only one

If you don't think people hold those beliefs then you need to spend more time on American websites: political, religious or otherwise!

It's satirising widely held beliefs. Just, perhaps, not yours.

I suppose that a few of us don't think it is too grand a claim to [i]KNOW[/i] what people of certain religous faiths believe. I also understand that you don't have a clue and that's probably OK too. I wish you well in that, but you probably get involved in too many debates about religion

you need to spend more time on American websites

Sure, but if the strip get its humour from satirising beliefs, it would be better if it chose beliefs which people actually held.

As Graham S said:

If you don't think people hold those beliefs then you need to spend more time on American websites

Just Google some of the crazy stuff any of the Republican presidential candidates have said, or the Westboro Baptist Church.

But even in the UK there are extremist nutters around. I remember being terrified as a kid when I was sent to an evangelical children's group after school. The pastor told me that I would burn in hell if I didn't love their god and Jesus more than my own family. "You have to love The Father more than your own father".

I used to pray at night, asking their god to forgive me for loving my family too much. But the more I read the Bible, the more I found it preposterous. My dad stopped me from going there when he realised it was a proper bonkers church, he thought it was a more sedate Church of England affair! 😀

By the time I was nine, I had decided that the whole religion thing was nonsense, which got me into trouble with Mrs Webster, my teacher at the time. She was also a devout Christian, and when the time came to teach us about Darwin's theory of evolution, she told us that it was a false theory, and that her god had created the world in six days. She didn't like children who asked questions.

At high school, we had an English teacher, Mr Daley, who was also a hardcore Christian. He told us that the apocalypse was coming within the next four years, and only true believers who had accepted Jesus as their saviour would have a place in heaven. He told us that everyone belonging to other religions were going to suffer eternal damnation. Which is nice.

Admittedly I was terribly immature, and would wear my most provocative metal t-shirts on non-uniform day. Although that wasn't as bad as two lads in the year below who kept on drawing inverted pentagrams and goats heads on the blackboard in his classroom, and put black feathers in his desk drawer...

I know some lovely Christians though, my brother's mother-in-law is a devout Christian, attends church every week, and is one of the nicest, most compassionate people you could hope to meet. She changed churches because she felt that the vicar at her previous church was too judgmental, after he did a massive sermon slagging off single mothers. Although she wasn't too pleased that my brother and his wife had told their son that they were atheists, and didn't believe in any gods, but that some people did and that he'd have to make his own mind up. :s