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Seems a lot of people think that having an academic education means that you are shit at practical things.
Yes, I have a relative with a PHD in quantum physics (really). It didn't only require lot of high level maths but the ability to design and build you own experiments, usually involving soldering irons and lots of lasers and stuff. She went on to study law and became a patent attorney.
She's the one that does all the electrics and fixes the mechanical stuff in her household. Her husband bought her a power drill for Christmas.
Seems a lot of people think that having an academic education means that you are shit at practical things.I have a Masters degree in Physics, but I can also fix things in the garage and fit wiper blades and a whole host of other things. Practical skills and academic skills are orthogonal - you can have one, both, or neither.
This is very true. It's often a sop to the less able to suggest that the intellectually gifted "lack common sense".
That said, Dr North does work with a chap who once, on standing up to start a lecture, put his hand in his pocket and pulled out a banana skin. After a split second contemplating it, he exclaimed: "Oh ****, I've thrown away my car keys."
you only have to look at MP’s to work out a mediocre degree or even Eton/Oxbridge doesn't guarantee intelligence.
This is very true. It's often a sop to the less able to suggest that the intellectually gifted "lack common sense".
I think it's partially that, and partially that it is often the case, moreso than you may expect (I know a lot of very academically smart people who aren't all that 'clever'/practical/useful), but it's lazily evolved into being mildly insulting!
Realising you aren't actually very intelligent...
I don't like to boast but I noticed straight away
i have found in life people with loads of letters after theit names, dont have much common sense.
I don't buy this at all. Sure there are some examples, like you can find for any sweeping generalisation you want to make, but it's a myth reinforced by confirmation bias and a bit of crowing IMO.
If it exists at all it is a reflection of what people have previously spent their time doing and how they want to be spending it now. I've just got my PhD but, for example, I would have no [i]immediate[/i] clue how to do even the most basic maintenance on a car. This isn't because I'm some sort of stereotype scatty academic though, it's because I've never owned a car, my family never had one, and consequently I've spent very little time peering under car bonnets and I've no particular inclination to start now. I'm sure some people would take that as a sign that I have no common sense though.
On the flip side to that, I certainly don't believe that things like PhDs mean you are Brain of Britain. They largely just reflect different choices or different opportunities (although you probably wouldn't get far if you were a total chump, obvs.)
I have lots of degrees, but really really wish I could be more of a handyman.
It just takes practice. Those people who are good at that stuff - they aren't born able to do it. What they are born with is the idea that they can investigate, try things out, figure out why things didn't work and improve.
I could knock you up a table in an hour using a saw, drill, pencil, set square and marking gauge. It wouldn't look pretty and might warp, but it'd be solid. Only because I spent a lot of time in earlier years building things that were flimsy and rubbish, wanting to do better, and thinking about what was wrong with them. Extra intelligence in that instance might make that process quicker, but you don't need to be intelligent. You just need to try, fail and learn.
I always try to ensure i'm the cleverest person in the room.Mostly by locking myself in the toilet.
Are you Michael Gove?
It just takes practice. Those people who are good at that stuff - they aren't born able to do it. What they are born with is the idea that they can investigate, try things out, figure out why things didn't work and improve.
Hang on, isn't this the nature/nurture argument?
I think you're born with a certain amount of abilities that go toward this kind of stuff. 3d visualisation, coordination, etc. Obviously that can all be trained, but to differing degrees; in the same way I'll never have the ability to be a stand up comedian, other people will never, ever, even with the best will in the world, be safe with a chainsaw.
in the same way I'll never have the ability to be a stand up comedian, other people will never, ever, even with the best will in the world, be safe with a chainsaw.
Most would though. I'm not talking about brain surgery, just basic physical manipulation. 80% of people could do DIY and woodwork and suchlike, I reckon - if not the swift creation of a table without plans. When I see people making a pigs ear of things, it's just inexperience, the same kind of thing I used to do. Difference is some people give up when they cock something up, instead of trying to figure out why they cocked it up and how to do it better next time. It's a confidence thing I suppose.
It could be that it's simply down to my own Dad doing all our DIY, it makes me think that DIY is something that a person should be able to do. Had he got people in to do things, I'd probably be reaching for the phone book too.
[quote=molgrips ]Seems a lot of people think that having an academic education means that you are shit at practical things.
I have a Masters degree in Physics, but I can also fix things in the garage and fit wiper blades and a whole host of other things.
Passats?
I'm also well academically educated, yet capable of doing most practical things. Can even do a good line in English language and public speaking and thinking on my feet. Sadly lacking in emotional intelligence and general people skills. Oh and self confidence. Would happily trade.
I know very well the limits of my intelligence. That's why I colour in pictures with felt tips for a living. Some nights I even remember to put the tops back on.
As Mrs Binners always says to me, a look of pity on her face, after i deliveri yet another monumentally stupid statement ... 'Aaaaaaah.... it's a good job you're so pretty'
I would reckon that I'm reasonably intelligent, got a 2.1 BEng in Engineering ferinstance.
However, I've made some [i]dumb[/i] decisions......
It could be that it's simply down to my own Dad doing all our DIY, it makes me think that DIY is something that a person should be able to do. Had he got people in to do things, I'd probably be reaching for the phone book too.
Definitely think there is an element of that, my Dad was the same so when I bought a house just thought "how hard can it be?"
Passats?
It's working perfectly now, thanks for asking 🙂 No thanks to those non-academic practical mechanics though!
What about lane discipline on a motorway - where does that fit with the whole intelligence debate...?
😉
It's says something that I don't even understand the context of teasels question ^^ :/
If you are really interested in this stuff Howard Gardner wrote a book on it...explains intelligence is not just academic
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_multiple_intelligences
If anyone ever played dungeons and dragons I always think people have more or less the same number of points and get to share them amongst the intelligences, we all know someone who has the brain the size of a planet but can't work out how to cross town on the underground
DT78 - MemberIf anyone ever played dungeons and dragons I always think people have more or less the same number of points
Congratulations, you just earned a charisma score of 1
I love my best mates (a paramedic) description of his older brother, who has more qualifications, and letters after his name, than is feasible, and works for the EU in Brussels ....
"He could calculate how many beans were in a tin, but he couldn't tell you how to open the ****er!" 😆
I'm another one who would happily trade book learning intelligence for practical skills which would get me a job!! All the degrees in the world don't qualify you to work in an office in Swindon it seems!
A few people have alluded to folk like this. I wonder what percentage of those being discussed are Aspie, that sounds like very stereotypical traits.
I worked in Eindhoven for 5 years which is apparently the 'smartest' place in the world - it also has one of the highest levels of autism.
Congratulations, you just earned a charisma score of 1
hehe, but an Intelligence of 99 🙂
Someone post a link to an iq test, I'm curious.
91 I'm a thickly. Although I'm by far above the age group average on quantative skills, whatever they are...
Someone post a link to an iq test, I'm curious
I'm intelligent enough not to voluntarily go near an IQ test 🙂
I'm intelligent enough not to voluntarily go near an IQ test
They're really good at telling you how good you are at IQ tests.
At uni, my wife scored so low on an IQ test that she shouldn't even really be able to tie her show laces. Although, now that I think about it, she does somehow tie them so that the loops both point in the same direction...
I did a test at school aged 5 or so. They showed me a picture of a ball and an orange, and asked me what the difference was between the two. Aware of the obvious answer, and trying to be a smartarse, I said 'balls come in lots of different colours'...
DT78 - Member
If you are really interested in this stuff Howard Gardner wrote a book on it...explains intelligence is not just academic
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_multiple_intelligences
Thanks for that, that bears out exactly my theory on this sort of stuff, telling folk they are intelligent just because they can regurgitate stuff they've read or been told for exam purposes is bollox as I frequently tell youngsters put off by poor school results.
I know some very bright types that had a crap time at school that have since gone on to succeed in other walks of life beyond their wildest expectations.
I wish there was a bit more about the existential or 'spiritual' stuff and a serious scientific probe into folk who can tell the future or have that 'sixth' sense, we definitely have this function and I've had it proven to me on a couple of occasions but I'd love to know how it develops, if we stopped considering it as witchcraft/mumbo jumbo or suggest anyone discussing it is a nutter.
Thanks for that, that bears out exactly my theory on this sort of stuff, telling folk they are intelligent just because they can regurgitate stuff they've read or been told for exam purposes is bollox as I frequently tell youngsters put off by poor school results.I know some very bright types that had a crap time at school that have since gone on to succeed in other walks of life beyond their wildest expectations.
Started well, then...
I wish there was a bit more about the existential or 'spiritual' stuff and a serious scientific probe into folk who can tell the future or have that 'sixth' sense, we definitely have this function and I've had it proven to me on a couple of occasions but I'd love to know how it develops, if we stopped considering it as witchcraft/mumbo jumbo or suggest anyone discussing it is a nutter.
🙄
I reckon doing stuff that people traditionally associate with being intelligent has a lot to do with learning/knowing how to think about things in some sort of objective, rational way, which is something pretty much everyone has the capacity for but few people do.
As said above that sort of thing isn't necessarily captured in memory tests.
I wish there was a bit more about the existential or 'spiritual' stuff and a serious scientific probe into folk who can tell the future or have that 'sixth' sense, we definitely have this function and I've had it proven to me on a couple of occasions but I'd love to know how it develops, if we stopped considering it as witchcraft/mumbo jumbo or suggest anyone discussing it is a nutter.
It has been investigated repeatedly and the more rigorous the testing the more is comes out as a load of nonsense.
The James Randi foundation has done a lot of this including offering a prize of $1,000,000 is someone could demonstrate such abilities. It was unclaimed for over 50 years and is no longer offered as a prize.
This just popped up in my twitter
https://www.ft.com/content/31852f06-6f08-11e6-9ac1-1055824ca907
Timely. From one of my favourite writers/broadcasters
I wish there was a bit more about the existential or 'spiritual' stuff and a serious scientific probe into folk who can tell the future or have that 'sixth' sense, we definitely have this function and I've had it proven to me on a couple of occasions but I'd love to know how it develops, if we stopped considering it as witchcraft/mumbo jumbo or suggest anyone discussing it is a nutter.
Did you only want to listen to the "scientific" probe that says "we can see the future"?
No, I want to find out a bit more about our so called sixth sense. The bit that sets hackles up when danger approaches, the bit you get when you're 'in the zone' in certain sporting activities that give an almost precognitive sense and is exhibited in some yet not in others, I'm convinced it is a level of 'intelligence' we've lost the ability to access down the years as society has developed.
I'm not talking about the 'staring at goats' experiments of esp and such, I'm talking real world stuff you must all have experienced at one time or other.
Everybody can see the future. Making that version of the future happen is a different story though.
The bit that sets hackles up when danger approaches
er, adreneline?
the bit you get when you're 'in the zone' in certain sporting activities
can be trained, perhaps not easily; any sports psychology type text will touch on mental rehearsal and so forth, comes down to stopping your analytic faculties from getting in the way of ingrained reflexes that come from *years* worth of training
"unconscious competence"
exactly like meditation but without the quiet sitting around bit
I'm convinced it is a level of 'intelligence' we've lost the ability to access down the years as society has developed.
you might guess I'm not, we should agree to disagree, I sense (using my normal five senses)
The lecturer would skip so many steps I spent ages working out how he got from one formula to another and only just barely comprehended what was going on
The opposite ability to make the complex, simple - shows greater intelligence IMHO.
Passats
😀
The opposite ability to make the complex, simple - shows greater intelligence IMHO
Wasn't Einsteins take on that something along the lines of "if you can't explain it to a five year old, you don't understand it yourself" ?
I know some very bright types that had a crap time at school that have since gone on to succeed in other walks of life beyond their wildest expectations.
I bumped into an old school friend a couple of years ago. He'd have been in his early 40s. Was in the bottom set at school academically. I asked him what he was doing these days, "oh, I've just retired."
Turned out he'd got into the building trade, started his own business, worked up to subcontracting rather than doing the building himself, earned a boatload of cash and retired. At 40. 😯
I wish there was a bit more about the existential or 'spiritual' stuff and a serious scientific probe into folk who can tell the future
A lot of it is well researched and understood. Google "cold reading" as a random example, it's a stock skill of "mediums."
I sense (using my normal five senses)
We have a lot more than five. Proprioception for instance.
No, I want to find out a bit more about our so called sixth sense. The bit that sets hackles up when danger approaches, the bit you get when you're 'in the zone' in certain sporting activities that give an almost precognitive sense and is exhibited in some yet not in others, I'm convinced it is a level of 'intelligence' we've lost the ability to access down the years as society has developed.I'm not talking about the 'staring at goats' experiments of esp and such, I'm talking real world stuff you must all have experienced at one time or other.
(Without wishing to derail the thread...)
There are blind people who can 'see' using clicking and echolocation. Scans show that the parts of the brain responsible for visual processing light up when this happens, and they can even 'see' objects from the sound recording, and even differentiate between moving bowls and stationary bowls. I've heard a neurologist who studied this compare their 'sight' to a sighted person's peripheral vision. (source: the Invisibilia podcast about how to become bat man)
I've been commuting to work by bike for years and feel like I have a 'sixth sense*' about vehicles approaching from behind. But it's not a 'sixth sense', I think it's something like the above.
People are awesome, and the reality is more awesome than the fiction.
*as Cougar says, we have more than five senses anyway
Mike, I watched a documentary about a guy that could do that stuff. Daredevil, I think it was called. It's on Netflix.
KInd of what I'm talking about, it's called a 'sixth sense' but its relevance to the thread and the point the other guy made back there about the different 'types' of intelligence and I guess perception that is initially untrained, is more to do with description of it.
We call it sixth sense because we don't fully know what we're talking about and the way the discussion is heading I think is more in agreement than differing. ESP = extra sensory that's not what I'm trying to consider, the consideration here is the variety of human scope for intelligence some of which gets trained and other bits get ignored when perhaps more folk could enjoy a broader 'education' if we were less about exams and learn by rote or whatever they do now.
Cougar makes a great example with the blnd folk description. I had a horrendous head injury once which damaged my 'perception' on my rear right quarter, I lost the ability to snowboard heel side temporarily a a result, it came back in time probably due to the brain re routing, but I don't put that down to intelligence loss, but then it could be, I also lost vocab.
edit Miketually not cougar sorry..
Brains are funny things. Further reading, [url= https://www.amazon.co.uk/Man-Who-Mistook-His-Wife/dp/0330523627 ]The Man Who Mistook His Wife For A Hat[/url].
This is a book of case notes from a Neurologist, documenting some fascinating and sometimes downright weird things that have happened to people as a result of neurological disorders. If you're in any way interested in this sort of thing, I'd recommend it.