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Surely, in the same way an attack on a police officer, tends to carry a greater sentence than an attack on a civilian, then an attack by a police officer, should also carry a greater sentence.
Hopefully his DNA will solve a few cold cases.
They can’t have him in solitary for the next 40 years, surely?
oh yes they can. and it cost millions.
i have 2 cousins who work at wakefield.
have a look at this fella.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Maudsley
Pretty sure he's going to have the world's biggest target on his back.
He'll be put in the sex offenders wing, but even fellow rapist ****s hate coppers.
Surely, in the same way an attack on a police officer, tends to carry a greater sentence than an attack on a civilian, then an attack by a police officer, should also carry a greater sentence.
You would hope so!
Hopefully his DNA will solve a few cold cases.
Wouldn't his DNA already be on the police database? I thought they had DNA from all police officers in case inadvertant of crime scene contamination? Is seaman DNA different from what would be found in saliva?
That said I don't have the foggiest how DNA analysis works in a crime scene - do they run a sample against all DNA records held on record looking for a match or do they run a search only on suspects?
Surely, in the same way an attack on a police officer, tends to carry a greater sentence than an attack on a civilian, then an attack by a police officer, should also carry a greater sentence.
You can't really get much more than whole life tarrif...
I would like to know why he was still a policeman considering the issues of flashing and apparently his nickname was rapist really a police officer.
I’m pretty sure Professional Standards will already be all over that with a vengeance.
Surely, in the same way an attack on a police officer, tends to carry a greater sentence than an attack on a civilian, then an attack by a police officer, should also carry a greater sentence.
If you read the judges sentencing remarks this is EXACTLY why he got a whole life tarrif. You or I doing the same thing, might have had the prospect of getting out on license after say 25 years if we convince the parole board we are no longer a threat.
Perhaps the best way to show some respect to the family of the victim would be to not use this as a topic of prurient discussion. And that goes for the BBC, and other media outlets, posting ever closer images of the poor girl's face all over their fkn Web pages. Imagine the poor family having to avoid all media to try not to see people raking over these details and dragging their pain into everyday entertainment (and this now includes this forum). And make no mistake, the outrage all of you are indulging in while discussing this case is still 'entertainment'. Best thing is for that stinking bastard to rot in prison for the rest of his days, and the rest of the world to quickly forget him.
Conversely jmmtb the case opens dialog around women’s safety, trust and transparency in the police and that surely can’t be a bad thing ?
Not forgetting the legal precedent set by the whole life sentencing.
If you read the judges sentencing remarks this is EXACTLY why he got a whole life tarrif. You or I doing the same thing, might have had the prospect of getting out on license after say 25 years if we convince the parole board we are no longer a threat.
Given Vincent Tabac got a whole life tariff I suspect Cozens would have even if he hadn't abused his position in such a chilling manner. Obvs abuse of his status as a Rozzer made it a total slam dunk. (I have no domain knowledge.)
I see your point @jmmtb but that approach only works if he really is 'one bad apple'.
And the number of women who face fear and harassment everyday, the number of women being killed for doing nothing more than walking along a street, the number of women who live in fear of their partners, the fact that rape has pretty much been legalised... means he is not and that means, however painful it is, this topic needs to be discussed imo.
But if he'd done this in Norway he'd probably not even do 21 years.....Do they think our system's barbaric for locking up killers like this for life? Most of the posts so far seem to agree the sentence is fair and appropriate too.
That said I don’t have the foggiest how DNA analysis works in a crime scene – do they run a sample against all DNA records held on record looking for a match or do they run a search only on suspects?
My understanding, and I could be way off the mark, is that they only cross-reference against existing suspects. I don't think DNA is sufficiently unique to be evidence in isolation, they have to already think he did it.
I think.
I have always wondered how the families of the offender's cope.
Being the parent, sibling, spouse or child of someone convicted of as henious a crime must take some getting over. Knowing the child you cradled, partner you shared tender moments, the parent you trusted implicitly could have another evil side to their life would be hard to take. Would you ever visit them in prison? Would you change your name? would you get rid of all your photos?
The DNA database , broadly speaking, contains the DNA profiles of all people who have ever been arrested for a recordable offence. It can be taken, by force if necessary, on arrest.
There have been various iterations of the legal powers to retain those samples, but since 2003 it has been lawful to retain such DNA profiles whether or not the person is subsequently convicted.
The National DNA database is searched as a matter of course against all crime scene stains.
During the course of an investigation into a serious offence, there can be a couple o different scenarios. If a suspect is in custody, and there are grounds to believe that the comparison of their DNA could be used to eliminate or strengthen evidence against a suspect, then authority can be granted to take their DNA for comparison purposes. At this time the suspect must be informed that the sample/profile obtained will not only be used as evidence in this particular investigation, but will also be compared with other crime profiles on a speculative basis.
In a large scale investigation, there may well be a policy to take the DNA of any persons who fit certain criteria, and these can be used of course to eliminate them as a suspect. These samples are voluntary, and are not entered onto the national database or retained.
Do they think our system’s barbaric for locking up killers like this for life?
I think the Norwegians think we throw money at the wrong end of the problem - the ongoing punishment. They throw it at rehabilitation and stopping offending/reoffending. There was a great article on the BBC a while ago looking at their system
I have always wondered how the families of the offender’s cope.
Revenge to the hilt! No ifs or buts. If the law does not do it then the law is broken.
If you can forgive then yes, you are a better person/saint etc, but most people are not even trained to believe in life after death so why bother?
Unless you believe in life after death, technically or "rationally" speaking you have encountered a damaged product that needs to be recycled. Therefore, recycle that product! Take it apart into pieces. If you don't do it you will Never forgive yourself.
That's why many victims and/or their survivors carry the pain to their grave. They are helpless and will always blame themselves for not being there to protect etc. Why should they be burden with such heinous act?
The chapter needs to be closed and the closure means the convicted person has his/her chapter closed as well.
Cougar I think he will be fine in prison they have special places for people like him.
Partly this.
oh yes they can. and it cost millions.
i have 2 cousins who work at wakefield.have a look at this fella.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Maudsley /blockquote>
& partly that.
Bob Maudsley is a different creature to Couzens though. He's in a CSU (Close Supervision Unit) which is literally a prison within a prison.
From what I see, Couzens isn't in the same league as Maudsley, who's killed other prisoners while inside. Couzens is (probably) a pysochopath of some sort but he's nowhere near as dangerous as Maudsley.
So no, I don't think Couzens will be any safer in jail than your average murdering rapist.
I think the Norwegians think we throw money at the wrong end of the problem – the ongoing punishment. They throw it at rehabilitation and stopping offending/reoffending. There was a great article on the BBC a while ago looking at their system
Norway and Oslo in particular are suffering from increasing crime rates that soon will resemble the average European city. I'm not sure how long the model will hold out.
If he received the whole life tariff because he is a cop, then I disagree with that , for the same reason I disagree with extra punishment for cop killers.
What's good for one is good for all.
My own personal preference would be for her family to have killed him before he ever saw a court room.
But that's not compatible with a civilised society, so many will disagree. That's ok. But this is one of those situations where a lot of folk with think to themselves , hmm, uncivilised sounds the best option.
brads
Free MemberIf he received the whole life tariff because he is a cop, then I disagree with that
Not just because he’s a cop, but because he expressly used the authority that position gave him to “arrest” and handcuff his victim before putting her in the car to presumably take her to the station. If he hadn’t used his position in such and simply jumped out, bashed her over the head and dragged her away it wouldn’t be getting anywhere near the same level of focus
If he hadn’t used his position in such and simply jumped out, bashed her over the head and dragged her away
What makes one worse than the other ?
What makes one worse than the other ?
errrrrr…
Pretty sure the majority of society gets this as fortunately did the judge.
What will Met / Cressida do to wriggle out of this one. ‘Thoughts and prayers’ ain’t worth shit Chief Constable.
Pretty sure the majority of society gets this
I don't. And I'm sure most would not make any distinction if it was their daughter.
Victim families get to make statements in this country, not pass judgement or sentence. It’s the way crime and punishment works in a civilised society.
The DNA database , broadly speaking, contains the DNA profiles of all people who have ever been arrested for a recordable offence.
Do they not have to delete 'spent' data?
What makes one worse than the other ?
Premeditation?
Scapegoat
I’m pretty sure Professional Standards will already be all over that with a vengeance.
Let's hope so because they have done nothing prior everyone who knew about this guy has blood on their hands.
From what I've read about this (and that isn't much - I've tried to avoid it) I would be absolutely amazed if this was the first time he'd done anything like this. I would think that discovering previously unknown victims is itself an excellent reason to try to protect him in Prison for as long as possible - from either himself or others. I'm not one of those people specifically wishing him harm in prison - but one has to be pragmatic.
His children are additional innocent victims here - and my mind just boggles when I think about what the future is going to look like for them. As well as the practical issues - how do they reconcile the fact that their dad is an absolute monster? I think his wife is going to face some extremely uncomfortable questions, both from the police and from her fiends, family and general public. This guy didn't just turn into a psychopath overnight.
Pffff, the whole thing is completely depressing
scuttler
Full MemberWhat will Met / Cressida do to wriggle out of this one. ‘Thoughts and prayers’ ain’t worth shit Chief Constable.
What will people do- protest about it?
What will people do- protest about it?
They did when it happened and he was first charged.
Yep, that's kind of my point
Yesterday was not a good day for MPS and their reputation with women
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/sep/30/activist-duped-into-sexual-relationship-with-spy-wins-case-against-met-police. The IPT ruling is quite severe.
I’m assuming that Cressida Dick will be forced to resign.
Reading the resume of what happened he had a history of flashing and was known in the organisation as ‘the rapist’. The complaints about indecent exposure seem to have been surpressed.
It suggests a truly toxic culture in the organisation.
@cougar
You’d have thought so, but this case turned it on its head
n R v Chief Constable of South Yorkshire Police ex parte S and Marper(([2004] UKHL 3)) the House of Lords heard a challenge from two individuals who had been arrested and had DNA samples taken. Following the 2001 Act, their samples were kept on the database even though they were never convicted of any criminal offence.
The appellants in Marper argued that, although retention of a DNA sample could be justified where a person had been convicted of a serious criminal offence (and could arguably be considered a suspect in the investigation of future offences), the policy of retaining DNA samples of those who had not been convicted was an unjustified and disproportionate interference with their right to respect for their private life under Article 8 ECHR.
Unfortunately, the Law Lords rejected the challenge on the basis that mere retention of a person’s samples did not constitute an interference with the right to privacy under Article 8.
Sauce: https://justice.org.uk/dna-retention-police/
I’m assuming that Cressida Dick will be forced to resign.
Let's hope so, but I can't imagine it will make an iota of difference. The Police at an institutional level seem immune to learning the lessons of previous ****-ups and seem intent every single time of covering up, making excuses, protecting themselves, and deflecting the blame elsewhere. It now seems standard procedure to drag out any inquiry to allow guilty officers to retire in the meantime, then to issue some lame half-arsed apology 20 years after the event by some other indenti-kit officer who was probably still at school when the events happened. See; Hillsborough, deMenezes, Kate Wilson, Dan Morgan, Lawrence...ad infinitum.
I don't know what the answer is, but I find myself more and more wondering what the police (as a "thing") are actually for, and could some other organisation(s) with fewer biases and ingrained issues do what they do better.
Sauce: https://justice.org.uk/dna-retention-police//blockquote >
Huh. Wow.
Now on appeal in the European Court of Human Rights, seemingly.
I don’t know what the answer is, but I find myself more and more wondering what the police (as a “thing”) are actually for, and could some other organisation(s) with fewer biases and ingrained issues do what they do better.
My view is, and has been for some time, that the Police are there solely to protect the state.
Any "protection" it gives to the state's citizens is incidental, and provided to stop society descending into anarchy, which would threaten the state.
That's why there is heavy handed policing of protests, yet women's safety is not prioritised. Women don't generally lead or partake in revolutions.
I think his wife is going to face some extremely uncomfortable questions, both from the police and from her fiends, family and general public. This guy didn’t just turn into a psychopath overnight.
Jesus, are we blaming his wife now? Wow, I knew there would be a way it was a woman's fault.
It's such a massive blow to the relationship between people and the police.
My boss used to be very high up in ops/governance in Police Scotland.
His take was that the Met is too big an organisation to deal manage itself effectively and thinks this could lead to it being split into smaller forces.
on second thoughts - deleted
So much to find profoundly depressing in this thread.
Starting with the one concerning the wife. Why would she know? How the **** can she be expected to answer "difficult" questions? Obviously she was covering for him. FFS!
Secondly is all the comments about that should be done to the perpetrator. Yeah, let's kill him. Now shall we look at who else we should kill? Maybe some degree of corporal punishment? How about doing it in public as a deterrent? The Taliban can probably provide some consultancy here.
Lastly, and not from here, I am finding the response from the police absolutely pathetic. If you feel threatened by a lone police officer, call and verify his (and it will be a him) identity. Really? Jump on a bus, run away! As others have said, resist arrest and see what happens to you.
The problem here is toxic masculinity, end of. No ifs, no buts. Until there is a profound shift in male attitude to females then this will not change. Check out social media, women are still being held responsible.
My view is, and has been for some time, that the Police are there solely to protect the state.
Any “protection” it gives to the state’s citizens is incidental, and provided to stop society descending into anarchy, which would threaten the state.
That’s why there is heavy handed policing of protests, yet women’s safety is not prioritised.
This.
So much to find profoundly depressing in this thread.
Starting with the one concerning the wife. Why would she know? How the **** can she be expected to answer “difficult” questions? Obviously she was covering for him. FFS!
Secondly is all the comments about that should be done to the perpetrator. Yeah, let’s kill him. Now shall we look at who else we should kill? Maybe some degree of corporal punishment? How about doing it in public as a deterrent? The Taliban can probably provide some consultancy here.
Lastly, and not from here, I am finding the response from the police absolutely pathetic. If you feel threatened by a lone police officer, call and verify his (and it will be a him) identity. Really? Jump on a bus, run away! As others have said, resist arrest and see what happens to you.
The problem here is toxic masculinity, end of. No ifs, no buts. Until there is a profound shift in male attitude to females then this will not change. Check out social media, women are still being held responsible.
And this.
Add to this, the blind eye turned to undercover sexual predators in the police spies scandal, which not only undermines trust in the police but also validates misogyny, as well as undermining Democracy itself. Massive win for all women, thanks to the tireless efforts of Kate Wilson.
https://twitter.com/fruitbatmania/status/1443715119758946306
Macpherson report finds met police institutionally rascist.
Report into murder of Daniel Morgan finds met police institutionally corrupt.
The london night stalker Delroy Grant carried out attacks for 17 years because the met police ran a woefully under resourced investigation yet the met spent millions on undercover spies on enviromental groups since 1968 and thats before you get to the suspicious deaths..........
I think they need to clean out the senior officers/management and replace with people who haven't worked in the met silo
No, not blaming his wife at all - calm your farm.
In the context of my post: that this bloke didn’t just suddenly turn into a psychopath overnight. I think anyone that new him - but in particular those people that knew him the best/longest (and even lived with him) would be being asked some difficult questions - particularly if a longer period of offending is uncovered.
on what grounds could they be questioned??