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Did anyone say 30 years ago, seen that level of racism a lot more recently in the UK and heard it too. It's not defending Aus as being better/worse than UK but that extrapolating AFL is like using crap football games as a valid sample of the population.
Really? I haven't, so perhaps we can agree that the plural of anecdotes is not data. The reaction to Goodes is however a matter of record, as is the historic and ongoing mistreatment of aborigines. There's an excellent article on it linked earlier in this thread.
If you seriously don't think australia as a nation has a big problem in the way it treats indigenous people you are living with your head stuck up your arse
There's an excellent article on it linked earlier in this thread.
They clearly can't be arsed/don't want to hear anything that challenges their cosy little perception that there's no problem with racism in Australia.
If you seriously don't think australia as a nation has a big problem in the way it treats indigenous people you are living with your head stuck up your arse
This.
My opinion is something that gets formed as life happens, rather than by what I've read that day.
You mean you like to rely on your own biases and subjective experience as a white westerner, rather than looking at actual evidence. Sounds about right.
Really? I haven't, so perhaps we can agree that the plural of anecdotes is not data.
Me neither. Perhaps it depends who you choose to hang out with.
OK, I've read the article I accept that Australia has issues, so does the entire of Europe. Branding Australia as all racist doesn't work, the bollox about prime ministers that I challenged is BS too. There is a tide of change here, it's happening, also the nation that is Australia is built from hundreds of nations and cultures it's a diverse place. The historic treatment of the first nation is poor, going forward things can be better but we are talking about it. It's progress.
Passing it off as historic treatment and describing it simply as 'poor', as well as your persistent whataboutery, just shows you are part of the problem frankly.
And FFS for the millionth time no-one has at any point said that all Australians are racist. *sigh*
The historic treatment of the first nation is poor, going forward things can be better but we are talking about it. It's progress.
Talking about it includes calling out racists for abusing Goodes, rather than defending them.
OK, I've read the article I accept that Australia has issues, so does the entire of Europe. Branding Australia as all racist doesn't work, the bollox about prime ministers that I challenged is BS too.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not particularly a fan of "we have a hard on for Marine Le Pen" France either.
really, I've been reading.
Am I really part of the problem? What have I done? The extrapolation of AFL to the rest of the population is a very big oversight though.
The extrapolation of AFL to the rest of the population is a very big oversight though.
And FFS for the millionth time no-one has at any point said that all Australians are racist. *sigh*
Talking about it includes calling out racists for abusing Goodes, rather than defending them.
I'm very happy that people are calling out the racists, it's a good thing it's also progress.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not particularly a fan of "we have a hard on for Marine Le Pen" France either.
What exactly are you on about? The reason I called you on your age is that you sound like a typical student/adrian mole type who has read a little and experienced nothing.
You were engaging in whatabouttery again by mentioning that the rest of Europe has a problem with racism.
Why would you do that? Also, I've got plenty of experience actually seeing the world through the eyes of someone who isn't white.
What exactly are you on about? The reason I called you on your age is that you sound like a typical student/adrian mole type who has read a little and experienced nothing.
Your arguments aren't getting any stronger...
really, I've been reading. Am I really part of the problem? What have I done?
Persistently denying the scale and reality of the issue. I think I'd call mass child kidnap, land/resource grabs, mass murder, huge discrimination in access to healthcare and education and being classified as flora and fauna as a bit worse than 'poor', and some of it is still going on right now.
And all the whataboutery is just pathetic. Yes bits of Europe have a huge problem with racism against gypsies - but rather than talking about it or trying to challenge it presumably we should either pretend it's not happening, pretend it's not important, or just say 'well it's not as bad as apartheid South Africa' or 'yes but what about treatment of Indians in Bahrain?' It's a truly dire line of argument.
And FFS for the millionth time no-one has at any point said that all Australians are racist. *sigh*
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Pigface - Member
What a surprise
They really are a rum lot down under.
Tom_W1987 - Member
Doesn't surprise me, if you walk into a bar full of white people in South East Asia - the loudest most obnoxious idiot in the room is always an Aussie.
Persistently denying the scale and reality of the issue. I think I'd call mass child kidnap, land/resource grabs, mass murder, huge discrimination in access to healthcare and education as a bit worse than 'poor', and some of it is still going on right now.
Right nobody is disputing history, history happened it's also history. Now and the future matters.
Right nobody is disputing history, history happened it's also history. Now and the future matters.
So you'll agree that as "some of it is still going on right now" then Australia has a bit of a problem, no?.
That sentence doesn't imply I think that all Aussies are racist, it's just that all the ones I've bumped into round that way are dirty bogans with colonial god complexes who pay to bang 14 year old girls then laugh about it and call the locals "flips" (****ing little island people).
You're clutching at straws there mike. And if you really can't see why the history matters then yes you are absolutely part of the problem. I've lost a lot of respect for you today tbh.
Australia has some problems, the scale of which is being overplayed in many ways it's also comparable to how much of a **** the average European is when allowed out of their country or at home. I don't object to pointing stuff out, but there is a lot of overplaying going on
That sentence doesn't imply I think that all Aussies are racist, it's just that all the ones I've bumped into round that way are dirty bogans with colonial god complexes who pay to bang 14 year old girls.
Sounds like most brits on holiday.....
Back in 2002 I was hitchhiking through Western Australia.
After waiting on the roadside for several hours a half clapped out car full of five black fellas pulled up.
I wasn't keen on jumping in, one reason being it would be rather cramped. No bother they said, besides it was hot and few cars passed through.
one guy moved himself onto the centre console up front. I squeezed myself between two fellas on the rear seat.
I was offered a beer from esky and chatted to the three guys that could speak some English. Was asked if I could play pool as we pulled up outside a roadhouse.
Big building. There was a pool table at the end of the room, a bar made from Jarrah wood. I walked to the bar as the five fellas called me into a small breeze block add-on. In this white washed room was an old table that had seen better days and a small hatch where you could order drinks.
One guy waited at the hatch to be served. You could see the waitress chatting to one of the truckers. After maybe 3 minutes of waiting this fella went around to the main bar only to be told to get back to where he came from (meaning the breeze block room) otherwise he wouldn't be served at all. The look on the fellas face said it all... Anger and sadness.
I felt like shit.
These guys had looked out for me and treated me as a friend, yet one of me had treated him like a c-u-next-Tuesday.
I bought and paid for their beers and made a point of ordering at the main bar. I got some right funny looks from the other patrons.
Another time, a guy (white, from Melbourne) gave me a lift for four days through NT. Nice guy, looked after me and we got on well. At one point we passed an aboriginal settlement that had been set up by the government. His tone changed as he showed me the abandoned buildings and burnt out cars. I wouldn't say he was racist,just pissed at the money that had been spent and blown.
Also remember the time some guy stopped for me in his ute. Out steps this big black guy almost as wide as he was tall. This was the first time I had any real contact with an aborigine other than being pestered for a dollar. He was cool as ****. Was on his way north to see family after having been on trawler for the past few months. "wanna Cola?" as he opened the esky shoved between the seats. Inside was stuffed full of Jim Bean and Cola cans. "do you smoke?" he asked as he flipped down the glove box to reveal a massive bag of weed.
The next eight or more hours were spent in a bit of a haze exchanging stories and him telling me about growing up in the bush.
Yes, I would say Australians are more racist, at least openly so, than Brits and indeed even Germans.
One guy waited at the hatch to be served. You could see the waitress chatting to one of the truckers. After maybe 3 minutes of waiting this fella went around to the main bar only to be told to get back to where he came from (meaning the breeze block room) otherwise he wouldn't be served at all. The look on the fellas face said it all... Anger and sadness.
Come on mike/zokes - tell us about the time something like that happened in the uk. I think you'll have to make it up.
Alpin, that sounds very similar to my experience it contrated starkly with the experience in NZ. Racism was stark and obvious in Aus. Other places I've been to abd back here its more closeted.
But Shane Warne says the booing has nothing to do with racism, so that's cleared that up.
A lot of Ausism going on here. Some of my best friends are Aussies... 😉
Birds of a feather...
You know your earlier joke DD......
Shouldn't be too hard.
This was the first time I had any real contact with an aborigine other than being pestered for a dollar.
...as far as you know (unless of course everyone you had real contact with declared their identity to you).
my opinion is just based on being married to an Asian who lived in Australia for a bit ... your experience ...being white is probably a very cushy one in Aussie land.
Well, I lolled, even if no-one else did.
I'm off to see the Roosters play the Bulldogs tonight - it's NRL rather than AFL, but I will let you know if anyone calls me an ape.
Rooooooooooooooosters!
You were engaging in whatabouttery again by mentioning that the rest of Europe has a problem with racism.
If we're going to ignore that the insinuation throughout this thread that been that all Aussies are racists, and instead climb down to an argument that Australia has more of a race problem that country xyz, then it's hardly whataboutery. Neither is my link to a thread about Cameron's derogatory and possibly racist comments, and the fact that at the time of posting, most people seemed quite happy with the PM of their country referring to other races as "swarms". Branding it whataboutery just further highlights how close perhaps you need to look at yourself.
Nobody here is arguing that a) racism doesn't happen in Oz, or b) that racism in any form is a good thing. What Mike, I, and one or two others who have more than anecdotal experience of living both in the UK and in Australia have repeatedly stated is that racism isn't noticeably worse here than in the UK.
Other places I've been to abd back here its more closeted.
Oh, that's alright then 🙄
These guys had looked out for me and treated me as a friend, yet one of me had treated him like a c-u-next-Tuesday.
One of you?
It's just skin! It's what's between the ears you should be associating with!?
What Mike, I, and one or two others who have more than anecdotal experience of living both in the UK and in Australia have repeatedly stated is that racism isn't noticeably worse here than in the UK...
[i]
But you're white, you dummy, and therefore highly unlikely to be on the receiving end of racial abuse in either country. [/i] Is what i'd like to type, but wont because i've no idea what colour your skin is.
Is it white???? ....I ****ing knew it you conkey, flat-assed flourbag 😀
Mike, of course the extent of the problem is being overplayed. This is an Internet forum. You take liberal apication of facts and reality as read. It's the headline syndrome....
Australia has a moustache problem too. Whataboutery that?
Australia has a moustache problem too
You're not kidding!
Zokes, last time I checked...Britain nor any country within the EU had constitutional legislation similar to this gem, still on the books.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_25_of_the_Constitution_of_Australia
Taken a long time to get round to repealing it, haven't they?
Adrian, you should well know the the UK famously doesn't have a constitution.
It's a pity you're more towards the Cappuccino Years than aged 13 3/4. For one, you were definitely more amusing as an angst-ridden teenager, and it would also excuse your inability to comprehend pretty simple arguments.
What, the fact that the UK doesn't have a hard Constitution somehow negates the fact that we nor any country within the EU have laws still on the books that approach what you still have in Australia? And again, you imply I/my other half or none of our friends have experience with racism.
My wife has experienced maybe 3 incidents over the 5 years she has been here in the UK, in Melbourne it was every week...with her friends it was every week....etc etc.
But keep up with the ad hom and deluding yourself that Australia does not have an acute problem surrounding race.
deluding yourself that Australia does not have an acute problem surrounding race.
Perhaps it does, but no more so than many other countries, the UK included. You are pretty ignorant of the facts if you think otherwise.
Its weird, I dont follow AFL so only have a vague idea who adam goodes is, but I have lived in oz for the past 4 years. I don't think australians are more racist than the brits, but that maybe people are much more comfortable being racist. I know more overtly racist Australians than I do Brits, but i'm not sure if that means much. I do know a frightening amount of very normal very nice people I know and work with really hate aboriginal australians and are pretty comfortable telling you.
Perhaps it does, but no more so than many other countries, the UK included. You are pretty ignorant of the facts if you think otherwise.
What facts would those be Zokes? The almost complete lack of racial remarks said in the street towards my wife in the uk? That our most racist party with any seats in parliament makes Abbots government look like the BNP? That someone like John Pilger hasn't labelled us an apartheid state? That we don't have legislation that discriminates on a racial basis?
I know more overtly racist Australians than I do Brits, but i'm not sure if that means much.
Some others have mentioned aussies are just more overt in their racism. It makes a lot of difference if it's overt as opposed to kept to oneself, overt racism makes people feel threatened and unsafe.
my opinion is just based on being married to an Asian who lived in Australia for a bit ... your experience ...being white is probably a very cushy one in Aussie land.Well, I lolled, even if no-one else did.
Yup, I lolled too. I got called out for being white on an anti-racism thread 🙂 My bad. Would have replied earlier but was busy at work in an Australian company where, funnily enough, there are people of all nationalities and from all walks of life. 2000 people. One building. One company. No one gives a toss about where you're from as long as you get the job done and you're not a dick, Still, bunch of sheep-shagging racists, eh?
Pretty sure its kiwis who shag sheep not the aussies :p
Keep in mind that this is coming from an...American expat of all things.
I’ve lived in Australia for ten years now as an American expat. One thing I’ve learned about my adopted home is that its problem with racism is similar in many ways to America’s problem with guns: it is so endemic and culturally ingrained that its perpetrators and propagators can’t even see that it’s a problem. Whereas histrionic Americans rage that there are all sorts of reasons for the thousands of American gun-related deaths every year except guns, Australians so vehemently deny that racism affects its national character. This is the root of the Adam Goodes controversy.
So Australia has even managed to shock someone who's from a country where they shoot black people for sport.
Yup, I lolled too. I got called out for being white on an anti-racism thread My bad.
Enjoy.
^ blah blah blah... stuff which happened 200 years ago. Not a lot I can do about that. Other than be a decent enough bloke, not be a racist idiot and - in my case - run a company with 20 staff, half of whom are "white boy" euro expats, a quarter Oz (white and indigenous, or however I should refer to, for example, Kyle, though I dont really know the right terminology as IDGAS so just call him Kyle. I think he's alright with that) and one quarter Asian. So sorry for not sharing your collective guilt about what the Euro settlers did to the indigebous people up until fairly recently, or what a group of idiots continue to do nowadays, but I am too busy getting on with life.
^ blah blah blah... stuff which happened 200 years ago. Not a lot I can do about that.
It's not stuff that happened 200 years ago. This was still going on until the 70s and arguably still goes on now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Generations
Your casual blindness to this and dismissal of this as a historical issue is again, a major part of the problem.
Perhaps it does, but no more so than many other countries, the UK included. You are pretty ignorant of the facts if you think otherwise.
Have you managed to make up a story about the UK equivalent to Alpin's recounting of the apartheid system in an Australian bar yet, or are you still just conveniently ignoring that one? And keeping on repeating that people are claiming 'all Australians are racist' just makes you look increasingly stupid.
But it's ok, you're just showing you've got a greater tolerance for racism than we do - maybe in the end that makes you a better person eh?