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I'm currently helping to set up a job on a CNC router to carve some lettering into the back (curved) rail of a bench that fits around a tree...by the by...
The lettering, I've been advised is supposed to read thus...
[b]The Mayors' Seat[/b]
Some people who purport to speak English in my organisation have argued the placement of the apostrophe. Should it go before the S or after the S?
I've been told after the S, but folks keep walking into my workshop and saying 'you know that's wrong doncha?'.... 😕
The seat/bench belongs to not one Mayor, but it is the seat for past, present and future Mayors so in essence, it belongs to many Mayor-i...
Where would you put the apostrophe so I can check I'm not making an embarrassing mistake?
pendant
?p?nd(?)nt/Submit
noun
1.
a piece of jewellery that hangs from a chain worn round the neck.
"a jade-green pendant on a gold chain"
2.
a light designed to hang from the ceiling.
"decorative pendants may need a special ceiling fitting"
adjective
1.
hanging downwards; pendent.
"pendant flowers on frail stems"
😀
No shit 😆
😀
No, shit
No shit's
No shits
No shits'
I would say it's correct as is (as it applies to multiple Mayors)
Pendantry aside ;), would you describe it as the Seat of the Mayors, in which case Mayors' Seat is correct, or Seat of the Mayor, in which case Mayor's Seat is correct.
Another thought is that there are not multiple Mayors at any one time (unless it is intended to apply to mayors from other towns) so the latter example above may be more accurate.
Either way, I wouldn't be taking the decision in isolation no matter how much I thought I was right. Get the buy-in from whoever placed the order for whatever you do. If you want to change it from the requested "Mayors'" option without authorisation, you may face issues, even if you are correct!
The Mayor is a single entity-role, regardless of who is doing it at any one time. There is only ever one Mayor at any time. It's not as if there is Mayor 1, Mayor 2 etc. So before the S I reckon.
Know Shit?
my post above reminds me of a former boss's views on customer care. there are only 2 rules:
Rule 1: the customer is always right
Rule 2: when the customer is wrong, refer to Rule 1
Yeah, I had thought about there only ever being one current Mayor. It makes sense.
Ultimately, I'll do what I'm told to do, but just wanted the opinion of the hivemind, as eye no wee like a bit of grammar pedantry around hear.
🙂
Wear?
Kayak: "as eye no wee like a bit of grammar pedantry around hear"
PEDANTRY ALERT! Grammar in that sentence is fine, the problem is with the spelling 😉
Depends what seat it's going on, if it's the seat that the incumbent mayor sits in then Mayor's Seat.
If it's some kind of commemorative bench they Mayors' Seat would be fine.
Also if the current Mayor was two conjoined twins then Mayors' would be right, have we checked?
Which seat?
would you describe it as the Seat of the Mayors, in which case Mayors' Seat is correct, or Seat of the Mayor, in which case Mayor's Seat is correct.
This
And the OP said
The seat/bench belongs to not one Mayor, but it is the seat for past, present and future Mayors
So Mayors' Seat is correct
the incumbent mayor
No, he just walks like that.
If it's some kind of commemorative bench
It is aye.
This is my initial testing of how I'm doing it if you're interested?
Apostrophe at the end!
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We literally only got this machine a week ago and one of the first things I'm trying to do is flat text on a kin curved component!!! 😀
Steep learning curve... I'm just a simple cabinetmaker etc, etc...
I made a cradle which is clamped to the front of the table and with my limited CNC knowledge, I am doing each letter individually, moving the component along so that it presents a flat-ish face for each character.
It's a bit of work so I'd hate to have the grammar wrong! 🙂
Two things:
1. the placing of the apostrophe depends on how many Mayors - how big is the seat ?
2. you don't need the capital S for Seat.... it is not a proper noun in this context
Aargh - OK I just saw the picture - you never use punctuation with capital letters in signwriting !! (is the convention)
Aargh - OK I just saw the picture - you never use punctuation with capital letters in signwriting !! (is the convention)
Really? That would be great! 🙂
^^^ That is certainly true about street name plates. Don't know about other types of signage though. I would say if you miss out the apostrophe entirely then 100% someone will write to the local paper about it. 🙂
The Mayoral Seat
The Seat of the Mayor
I like Myopic's "Seat of the Mayors".
If the seat is not adjacent to a trail it doesn't matter. No-one will complain.
Just put "1Km to next seat" on it, there'll be grumpies complaining then 😉
Based on many Mayors, past and present, the sign (in caps):
THE MAYORS' SEAT
I'm with Hels. No punctuation. It looks better and it could be argued that you are not saying to whom the seat belongs (;-)) but the name (or title) of the seat.
Do it right or it will haunt you through the ages....
(you may have to read very closely 🙂 )
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The seat/bench belongs to not one Mayor, but it is the seat for past, present and future Mayors
Just sounds like someone trying to justify their original error.
I'm with Hels. No punctuation. It looks better and it could be argued that you are not saying to whom the seat belongs (;-)) but the name (or title) of the seat.
I'd correct that with a sharp blade.
If it's a seat that previous Mayors are allowed to sit on, it's "The Mayors' seat"
If the mayor is a bit arsey and doesn't allow others to sit on it, it's "The Mayor's Seat - lording it over us like a god; the arsehole"
I'll suggest you could improve the letter spacing as some pairs can be closer than others. Look up 'kerning'.
(edit) Every day's a lernin' day.
+1 CFH and slowoldman also keep a bit of the 'swarf' to mix with PVA to hide the error if/when it is found! loving your work 🙂
I would always do the design in something like Illustrator as the CNC software will probably be a bit crap for stuff like that.I'll suggest you could improve the letter spacing as some pairs can be closer than others. Look up 'kerning'.
I completely understand all the arguments put forward, but "Mayors' Seat" just looks wrong. It looks almost like you're trying too hard to be a pedant. It just looks wrong.
Apostrophe before the s for me.
The rule on grammar isn't what you think [b]looks[/b] correct...
I would always do the design in something like Illustrator as the CNC software will probably be a bit crap for stuff like that.
I'm using a program called VCarve. It came with the whole package.
It seems fairly ok really but yes, the actual CNC software (Mach3) looks like something from a ZX Spectrum.
The spacing etc isn't set yet, I'm really just playing about. As I say, we've only had the machine commissioned a week and so I've been coming in at 6.30am most days just to have a play on it 😀
What I've done now is to carve the lettering in a single go on a flat board at the right size.
That has given me the right spacings as it's written and allowed me to plot centre lines, and reference points and shit.
Hopefully it'll be ok.
It's better than I can do by hand anyway.....well, certainly this side of 2018! 😀
The rule on grammar isn't what you think looks correct...
Well, it kind of is. This is the sort of question asked of publishing style guides. I couldn't find the answer in a cursory Googlage but there are circumstances (and I'd argue that this is one) where it's outside the traditional black and white section of the 'rules' and open to interpretation.
"The Mayors' Seat" looks fussy and stupid and doesn't add any additional meaning therefore I say it's wrong to my eye. But of course it's open to others' interpretation.
VCarve is great, very intuitive & easy to use. The ability to quickly change the tool path & preview the output once all the tooling is configured correctly is great & ideal for playing around/learning. That said, the actual design tools are fiddly IMO so I tend to just do everything in Illustrator & export it.
Zilog6128, do you know anything about importing 3d stuff from Google Sketchup into Vcarve?
It's supposed to do it but I can't get it to work... just won't open the SKP file...
The Queen's College Oxford and Queens' College Cambridge, just by way of example. You don't have to have multiple Mayors simultaneously to use the plural, I think it depends really whether the seat is dedicated to several of them who have served over the years, or the particular one that happens to be in office at a specific time. Is it the current mayor's seat or a seat for any mayor who happens to be passing?
No as I've only ever used VCarve for 2.5D stuff, however I do have Sketchup Pro so I can have a look. VCarve isn't a full 3D program AFAIK so maybe if your Sketchup model includes undercuts, etc, that might be why it's complaining?
EDIT: My version of VCarve is an older one & doesn't have that functionality anyway. Is yours the latest version? This link gives an alternative method, depending on what it is you want to achieve: [url= http://blog.productgraph.io/2014/02/25/from-sketchup-to-vcarve ]http://blog.productgraph.io/2014/02/25/from-sketchup-to-vcarve[/url]
But not the sign posts for Westward Ho!That is certainly true about street name plates.
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I'm not holding it in the middle for any specific reason at all....no Sir... not at all...
😳
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Looks much better without the apostrophe.
Shame about the hand you've CNC'd in the middle of it though.
😉
THE MA'ORS SEAT?
John Major's seat?
Late to the show but I'd tend to go with no apostrophe (didn't know about the punctuation bit from hell but makes sense.
Think Sainsbury's / Sainsburys.
That would annoy me every time I saw it.
SEAT should be spelled ARSE..
Go leftfield with MAYOR SEAT.
I can't help but be uneasy about it all being in capitals.
I wouldn't worry about it,some youth will be along once it is installed to change the text to "the mayors shit"....
Think Sainsbury's / Sainsburys.
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No apostrophe looks better in your case kayak.
Looks much better without the apostrophe.
To me it 100% doesn't - it looks wrong wrong wrong
Safer to leave it out perhaps.
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😕
This is the actual bench we're replacing.
It looks like some pendant has already come along and tried to add some punctuation! 😀
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Looks like either they changed their minds, or a like minded fellow person came along with other ideas as there seems to be an attempted apostrophe in both potential places... 😆
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and your question is answered, it doesn't matter where you put it, some-one will be along once the bench is in place and add another anyway...
True! 😆 + 👿