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hi Folks,
Dad recently died, and mum does not need 2 cars. I am unsure what to do with dad's. 2012 Merc B180 CDI (approx value 6K if no issues). The problem is that it has the engine warning light on which apparently gives a DPF error code.
Dad told me Mercedes Paisley (Arnold Clark - shudder) had a look when it was in for a service and couldn't find the actual problem. Dad's been driving it for 2 years since then with this light on with no detrimental effects. I've tried a many higher rev runs on the motorway to see if that helped, as dad only really did v short local journeys, but it did not.
I took it to a local Indi specialist recently (JAG Stirling), and they said they'd need to hold onto the car for a month (!) and have someone go through all the possible issues to find the real problem, but looking at the thick end of £2500 to get it sorted. That sounds hella steep. A new DPF unit is only a couple of hundred quid, maybe there's a shit ton of labour? Frankly, got the opinion from them that they really couldn't be arsed and didn't want the business.
We don't want this car hanging around, kinda want to sell it so mum has the dough, and I can't seem to think straight on what to do:
1) insist mercedes main dealer finds and fixes fault for £xxx?
2) Sell it on webuyanycar with known issue flagged for less than we would get if it was a-ok?
3) find another Indi specialist who might be a little more pragmatic?
4) Me give mum the cash for value of the car and we just keep it and run it into the ground (I've been driving it anyway for the last few months and it is quite handy as we don't have a second car, and it is in bloody good nick)
Option 4 is worrying based on the other thread on here about the big merc, as I don't want to have something that is constantly horrifically expensive to get fixed.
guidance and opinions appreciated.
sell it to molgrips?
😂
TBF, the gearbox is manual and works great, so it would be an upgrade 😉
4.
Get a webuyanycar price with fault. Then see whether it is worth that to keep as a second car.
As for the risk of bills? Any 9 year old car will throw up a bill now and then. At least the Merc is a known quantity.
Isn't an engine management light now an MOT failure?
EDIT: ...which might affect your ability to do number 4
ross980 - it's passed it's last 2 MOTs with the light on, so I don't think so?
Have all the ECU faults been cleared? It might be worth trying that to see if the warning light comes back on. You can buy some cheap code readers from eBay for a few quid.
5) Remove warning light bulb & sell / trade in.
Option 2a- sell to WBAC with the warning bulb removed?
Do you know the actual code- might be some help online if you know that. Also be worth looking for a local merc indy if the other is a general indy.
What's the value difference between WBAC with and without the fault? (Note there are alternatives to WBAC).
Can the fault code simply be reset? (my experience with DPF codes on some other cars was you could clear them and get 30+ miles with them before they would come on again - if you were so inclined, I'm sure you wouldn't be the first person to reset just before handing over to WBAC!)
Fair enough. I think the rules are different for older cars, but only pre- 2003. Maybe you're just lucky, or the light doesn't come on straight away, or the Tester chose not see it 😉
Is it actually a fault code? My 320 has been displaying an amber check engine light since it passed 150k but it's a DPF info code purely based on mileage, not condition. It only shows with ignition on, then disappears when the engine starts. If I had a posh code reader I could probably lie to the car that I'd replaced it which would get rid but tbh I can't be arsed.
Replacing the DPf may not even be the fault. So many sensors and other bits when faulty will throw that code.
It's not just replace the DPf and jobs done
Steady on . .
It won't be a bulb for starters. If it is the check engine light (CEL) it will be an MOT failure. This is the 'bulb' that looks like an engine with a bolt of lighting through it.
Just put it on Ebay with an honest description and be rid. Please don't try to fool WBAC, Arnold Shark or any trader.
I’ve tried a many higher rev runs on the motorway to see if that helped, as dad only really did v short local journeys, but it did not.
A DPF regeneration is not an 'Italian tune up'. Its not about high revs / high load. Its longer journeys that allow the engine and exhaust to heat up but where the engine is under low load. Many cars will abort the regen if the revs / load are too high
Modern dashes don't really have bulbs so much. I'd go with colouring that area in with a black felt tip pen
sell it to molgrips?
pmsl
Drive it to Barnard Castle, just to check it really is lighting up and not your eyes deceiving you.
As above, cheap reader - clear it see if it'll get to a WBAC without coming back on. **** WBAC - they were ****s when dealing with MrsRNP and her mum when her dad died and they wanted rid of his car.
We're a JAG customer, have been for 8 years.
John and the team are rushed off thier feet - I do think he's only doing existing customers, so you likely got a time and price as a disincentive...
I would get a second independent view of it.
I get you your hatred for WBAC, but they are going to then push it out to the trade and some poor retail buyer will have to deal with either WBAC or the trader they bought it off, so all you're doing is screwing it up for the trader and the poor retail customer. Who then of course blames the trader for selling them a pile poo.
If you don't like the WBAC business model, then eBay or the local auction.
It was truly the worst car related transaction I've ever the displeasure with. It was a less than 2year old mint condition Passat and the amount of ducking, diving, swerving and old school car salesmen good cop/bad cop 'techniques' had me threatening the guy when MrsRNP asked me to get involved. We didn't know about EvansHalshaw at the time and we didn't have the energy for eBay/autotrader etc.
So **** em. I'd happily offload a bullshitted up absolute snotter onto Wbac with newspaper stuffed sills, sawdust in the gearbox, and the Blackpool illuminations on the market penned dashboard. Basically Molgrips Merc.....
Give John Ritchie at Pro-Grip a call. He's not cheap but neither is he a bullshitter. He's in Larbert so not far from Stirling.
Alternatively, right next door to Pro-Grip is Ewan Lawson (DPF Doctor) who might be useful. I've no experience of Ewan Lawson as I'm a petrolhead!
it looks like you can do a manual dpf regen (which basically forces the car to heat up the dpf to a point where it burns the carbon deposits) - this is also what happens when you take the car for a long (>30 mile), higher speed run (but its not guaranteed to trigger then).
A local indi or mobile mechanic with a half decent code reader should be able to trigger it for you. it'd be about 2 minutes of actual labour, and take 30 to 40 minutes to run (with some makes (ford) you can do this with software off the net. no idea if you can with mercs). This is likely to clear a dpf fault, and may be what the garage did when your dad took it in, prior to mot-ing it.
note, its def not guaranteed to clear the fault, if more is wrong. DPFs are painful things, but I'd say this is worth £30 to your local backstreet garage before deciding what to do next.
Had a similar issue on sons merc (2012 250 cd). Tried lots before handing it to Merc in Edinburgh
Fixed by forcing a regen (others unable to get it to regen)
£300
Job jobbed.
the Blackpool illuminations on the market penned dashboard.
Jump-starting a Merc with a flat battery can light up the dash like a bloody Christmas tree! It then needs a proper diagnostic tool to read and clear all the errors, and that’s not always successful. We have one from Snap-On, that’ll sort many issues, but many manufacturers like to have car management systems that are tightly controlled, ‘proprietary software’, etc. We had a Merc sitting in our arrivals area for a couple of months after the battery died following it being dropped off. Trying to jumpstart it then showed it was stuck in ‘Park’, and couldn’t be driven, our diagnostic system doesn’t have access to a lot of more specialist stuff, same with Ford - we looked into getting a license for the Ford system, it costs £10,000. We don’t get enough issues to justify the expense, we just send the cars to a dealer and let them sort it. We’ve had four Mercs trailered to dealers after a flat battery has bricked them, and one after the whizzy new-fangled led-paneled dash display went black while it was being driven…
There’s no way I would consider buying or owning a Mercedes.
Sorry for your loss, dude.
What do you -want- to do with it? Sentiment and faults aside, is it of use to you?
If you even remotely mechanically minded you could try this trick
Disconnect the exhaust and spray a can of mr muscle foaming oven cleaner up into the system
Its designed to beak down carbon deposits so similar concept to a dpf clean
Rubber glove and elastic band once its up there to stop it eating your drive
Leave for a few hours, reconnect, go for drive
Eobd reset to clear the error codes, a few hours and a can of cleaner, cheapest option and it might work
@matt_outandabout - cheers, JAG were not rude in any way, were recommended to me highly, but agree with your comments.
@Cougar - thanks man - **** cancer - yes it is of use to us (see my other thread re. tow bar fitting)
@GlennQuagmire - I think thats a good start point. Cheap code reader purchased.
@fruitbat - good tips, many thanks. alternative Indi seems a good place to see whats what
@singletrackmind - I am 'remotely' technically minded, but it's a very distant second cousin to my main capability of bodge and break!
You probably need to force a DPF regen.
Ask on Mercedes forums if anyone local has a Xentry / STAR (MB diagnostics) setup.
A cheap code reader will be no use whatsoever.
I have the Xentry kit but I'm miles away from you.
A Mercedes specialist or dealer with the kit will be able to do it in about 5 minutes.
I had an old Audi that had an engine management light on it's entire life span, every mot they ran diagnostics, cleared it, light out, pass, 2 days later BING light back on, the longest it stayed off for was when a friend in a moment of genius did 80mph up a big long hill in 3rd gear, big puff of black smoke and it drove like dream after.
That indie garage wanting £2.5k is just at it.
If you don’t like the WBAC business model, then eBay or the local auction.
Not sure how that helps? If WBAC can’t do proper diligence on cars then they either have to take the risk or shouldn’t be in the business. Auction or eBay is just passing the problem to another potential unfortunate, possibly the same customer for WBAC. If WBAC do anything more than just immediately resell they probably have the ability to do the DPF regen themselves.
My only issue with WBAC is they quote a seemingly attractive number then beat you down on price once you are at their place. Sometime that will be legit because people didn’t tell them things, sometimes it’s just because it’s what they do, and often it’s because there is some small print about handling charges which are inevitable, and just naughty.
There have competitors, I preferred the one who came to my door to pick it up because then if they started playing silly buggers it wasn’t my time that was being wasted. Faced with their driver coming away empty handed and his costs for getting here/back meant the fault with the electric window that they never asked me about didnt result in a reduced payment! (They could have avoided that by sending me the checklist the collection driver uses before quoting, so I feel zero guilt). He was driving if direct to the auction.
Thing is if you describe the vehicle correctly and then auction it or eBay it, then you are being honest, not trying to pull the wool over someone's eyes. That's what auctions are all about.
I'm no fan of WBAC and would never use them, but imagine the scenario where the owner puts out the engine check light knowing full well it will come back on after 500 miles say. WBAC pay up in good faith, pass it onto a retailer (I'm not sure if they sell directly) and consumer buys vehicle off the a dealers forecourt and then finds check engine light comes on?
Customer kicks off with trader, traders tries to do their best, it all goes horribly wrong and traders reputation is trashed on the 'socials'. And all because the original owner tried to dump a car with a known fault.
Alternatively, put it on eBay explaining that check engine light is on - nothing wrong with being 'economical with the truth' 😎. It is then up to bidder to make a decision on what the vehicle is worth. You've been honest and absolved yourself of any come backs. You'll not get the maximum trade in value, but you'll sleep easy.
…. Or the trader realises that there is a risk of buying cars at auction with issues, and builds this probability into the price that he sells the car at. Dealers have a duty to make sure the cars are free of faults, or rectify them. If they didn’t, joe public may as well just buy direct from the auctions
Of course the trader has a duty of care, but just don't try to pull a fast one. Just sleep easy knowing that you've been honest.
Alternatively, put it on eBay explaining that check engine light is on – nothing wrong with being ‘economical with the truth’ 😎. It is then up to bidder to make a decision on what the vehicle is worth. You’ve been honest and absolved yourself of any come backs. You’ll not get the maximum trade in value, but you’ll sleep easy.
My experience of selling a car with known and listed faults on Gumtree was that I got £100 more than WBAC, before they had been through the usual 'ah, but we found a scratch under the carpet' process.
If you can't find a good Indy to look at it, get it listed with faults stated.
(Also, get in with JAG. They've not put a foot wrong with us in 8 years. Not the cheapest, but thorough, reliable and very open. Just totally a victim of thier own success at present.)
WBAC are owned by British Car Auctions, all their buy ins go straight to auction. WBAC don’t do any work to them, they just load them up and send then off.
I’m my experience they are 99% interested in body work condition. As long as the engine starts that’s enough.
Make of that what you will!
it’s not really comparable but when my dad died (**** cancer) last year, the most sensible thing to do was take his motorbike back the dealer who sold it to him new. I hadn’t ridden in 12 years, and a 1400 wasn’t the best way to get back into it.
So I loaded it into my van , brought it home to Spain and began the slow expensive process of registering it here. It’s a money pit (even had to rent a garage to keep it in) and I rarely use it but it does make me smile to think of him when I stick a tent on the back and head across the Pyrenees for a weekend.
Maybe not the most practical thing to do in your situation and at the end of the day these things are just stuff, but I do like having that link to him. Sorry for your loss.
I've got a 2-3 hour drive ahead of me this weekend mostly on motorways. The car will be fully loaded. If I'm driving a steady 70mph for an hour will that guarantee a DPF Regen?
DPF delete and a remap
Yes, that should regen it if anything will
Wee update, apologies for taking so long.
I bought a code reader. Brilliant thing! 2 codes - DPF a bit stuffed up with soot, and a problem with the sensor.
Went to another recommended independent garage. £55 for some more oil (it was low), they confirmed the codes, deleted them, forced a regen (now, I don't know if that meant ragging it up and down the M9). They said that if the light comes back on, they'll clean out the DPF and replace the sensor.
Light was out, then it came back on a couple fo days later, then a long run to Glentress at the weekend it never re-appeared.
Thanks all!