[Closed] Putting a motorcycle engine in a car......anyone done it?

I reckon another Ford engine- didnt Puma have the Fiesta 1.4 as a choice? Why not keep alookout for salvage sales for a rear ended/rolled Puma or Fiesta?

http://www.zcars.org.uk/index.htm do some Motorbike conversions

If you do it you'll want to make the Puma a light as possible though
most that I've seen have been made rear wheel drive too
e.g. Mini's (Classic), Smarts cars For2's and Coupes

Being front wheel drive, I would have thought it will be a bit tricky mating the bike engine to the gearbox / drive system. Most bike engined cars are rear wheel drive so you can use a standard type rear axle.

Penguinious - thats boring and no fun!

lots of people have - and there's certainly a lot of kit cars running round with motorbike engines in.

try looking around kit car forums for advice. one thing you'll need to consider which will be the tricky part is connecting the output of the engine to driveshafts and sorting gearing out - as the bike engine screams round alot quicker than your old 1.7 ford engine 🙂

If i'm going to put a ford engine back in I'll get another 1.7 (why would I put an asthmatic 1.4 in it)

The whole point is in using a bike engine is high power, high revs and light weight

Mate did a westy a few years back when folk started doing this stuff. It was OK, revved it's nuts off, but lack of low end power (torque) made low speed stuff a bit of a pain (probably not a real issue for a track car), but TBH gearbox was a nightmare as it just wasn't designed with a car's weight in mind, and no reverse was a pain.

Fun though

Something to bear in mind is the usual suspects for bike engines (minis, westfields, etc) are significantly lighter than a Puma, and work well because of this. Bike drive trains aren't designed with a tonne or more of metal to lug around in mind.

didnt Puma have the Fiesta 1.4 as a choice?

There were 1.4, 1.6 and 1.7 Pumas. The only engine for an enthusiast is the 1.7 - designed in conjunction with Kawazaki I believe. Or was it Yamaha?

Yamaha, needed strict TLC with the right oil and change intervals. So theres a change the replacement engine might not have been.

In regards to the weight issue. Yes its too heavy for a motorbike engine 🙁

Me practical but.........would a 2.0 Ford lump fit?

Yep...the 1.7 was developed with Yamaha.

I don't remember there being a 1.6 available though.
Nearly bought a Puma. But then decided not to.
Then nearly bought a Racing Puma but decided I wouldn't be able to afford the fuel. If I had been able to afford a 2nd car, or didn't do so many miles.....I would have had one.

Could you not get a Racing Puma engine? Should be easier to drop in. Not many made though so perhaps not many re-conditioned ones around? I think they are 155bhp.
I did find a place on the internet a while back that would stick the Racing Puma engine into Fiestas.

Ford engine with a Yam VVT head if I remember right.
Just put a TDCi engine in it & flog it to Molgrips 😉
http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/i-want-a-diesel-sportscar

If you could get it to fit (a big if) you would probably have clutch problems just look at the size of the Kwak clutch compared to the Ford clutch. Even when bikes are fitted with sidecars they struggle with the clutch and usually need the gearing dropped.

There WAS a 1.6 Puma...
[url= http://www.pistonheads.com/SALES/1134581.htm ]HERE...[/url]

Anybody heard of Mike Endean?
He's pretty good with Puma engines!

There's a mental V8 motorbike engine based on two kawasaki 1300cc cylinder blocks and a custom crankcase and crank.

300bhp and 14000rpm 🙂

Think it was made for some land speed record attempt, so probably hard to get a hold of 🙁

or take the tyger (sp?) approach and fit TWO bike engines.....
🙂

Was the 1.6 not in the racing Puma because it was supposed to be as much like the super 1600 rally cars as possible. Thats what I always thought.

How about a 2.0 Mondeo engine. OK you would need the ecu and stuff but it would be a lot easier than a bike engine and much much cheaper. You could buy a Mondy for a couple of hundred and strip it then scrap it. If you leave the standard gearbox in there it will accelerate like sh1t off a shovel.

Ken, is the engine not stripable/rebuildable? What is wrong with it? Seized?

I'm liking the Mondeo idea. Bet if you went on a Ford enthusiasts forum you'd find a wealth of people who have done similar things.

Look at this puma 1.50

Was the 1.6 not in the racing Puma because it was supposed to be as much like the super 1600 rally cars as possible. Thats what I always thought.

I'm liking the Mondeo idea. Bet if you went on a Ford enthusiasts forum you'd find a wealth of people who have done similar things.

I nearly did it with my xr3i when I blew the engine on that I also considered getting a Sierra XR4X4 and having a XR3X4 but I was skint so did neither. One day I would love to do it. I was going to totally pull the mondy apart and have all the (much more reliable) electrics and power steering and really update the escort but it wasnt to be.

Note of caution..since people started using Busa engines etc in Westies etc these bikes have become an even more nickable commodity...please source your engine responsibly ....the mass outpouring of rage/sympathy bike thefts on here generates indicates how attached people get to their bikes...lets not encourage the scummers to nick more!...plenty of totalled bikes around if you look.

Driven a few motorcylce engined racing cars over the years. One of which was horrifyingly fast, talked sub F3 laptimes.

But then most single-seaters are 350-500kgs without driver. It the puma too porky?

Oh yeah....there was a 1.6 Puma, but it wasn't introduced until later in it's life - Oct 2000 according to Parkers.
I test drove one in 2000 and the bloke said there was only a 1.4 & a 1.7 available. Must have been before the 1.6 came out.

Racing Puma was definitely the 1.7 tuned by Tickford racing I think.

Puma was released with a 1.4 and a 1.7. Then came the 1.7 Racing Puma (lovely) then in about 2000 the puma became available with a 1.6 Fiesta engine only.

I'd go for a Duratec engine, a 2l mondeo lump on throttle boddies will see 200bhp on a standard engine. Or hunt out a imported Mazda or ford Duratec from the states at 2.4L 200+Bhp and lots of bottom end.

The ford has its advantages in that a lot of componants will just drop in. The Fiesta would take a 1.8/2.0 zetec engine (RS 1800), the Puma is a rebodied Fiesta and a Duratec uses the same Block as a Zetec.

How about searching a a trashed Focus ST170, again the same block, 170 BHP for starters, and probably 95% straight swop.
Turbo is the next option, A RS turbo lump would go in, and would a Zetec ?CVH hybred. Thats quite a common conversion.
If you fancy a real challenge how about a Audi 1.8 Turbo. Would be hard work to make it work, but theres a few 225bhp FSI TT engines kicking about.

Busa engines etc in Westies

JEESUS!

[img] [/img]

With a 350cc V-twin engine:
[img] [/img]

I have driven a couple. A ZZR engined westie & a blade engine caterham. Lots of fun, great with the sequential box & brilliant front ends due to lack of weight.

Not sure how they would work in a puma though, the original cars I drove would have been 500/550kgs with their original engines in so nearer 425/450 with the bike engines.

Definately good for a laugh & totally manic.

Puma is 980kg out of the box and makes 123bhp and 115ftlb's of torque

with removal of the interior, replace most of the glass for perspex, lighter wheels and removing the Ford engine and gearbox I reckon you could knock 200kg off it

The Kwak engine makes 187bhp (197bhp with ram air effect) and 113ftlb's so should work ok. Would fit a heavy duty clutch.

Quaife do a transfer gearbox with reverse that fits with Ford drive shafts so it's mainly a case of lining it all up and mounting the engine....sounds easy

But still heavy and FWD. And for the spend and effort, you could have build something seven-like which would blow it's socks off on track.

rember most bike engines are air cooled not water cooled so there will be alot of modification to sort it out

Don't know about bike engines in cars, but I put lawnmower engine in a raleigh chopper years ago.

Lucky to be still alive really!

Not much torque on that kwak engine though, once you factor in drivetrain losses etc.
Much better to faff about with a cossie YB lump, or something from a Mondie ST24 etc.

Dan67 - Member

rember most bike engines are air cooled not water cooled so there will be alot of modification to sort it out

welcome to the 1980s. Most modern motorcycle engines are watercooled - especially big 4s

You will have many issues tho - with it being a front wheel drive car mating up the drivetrain will be hard. The motorcycle engine is unit construction - gears in the same unit as the crank - so its hard to use a car gearbox as you have to modify the crankcases in a major fashion ( the exception would be a K1100 bmw motor I think and some shaft drive twins)

Then you have the gearing issue - motorcycle engines rev to 10 000 rpm plus and will be geared for 200 mph at the red line in top for something like that kwak - so you need to drop the gearing hugely.

Peak torque while similar will be at much higher revs than the car - 7000 rpm needed to get rolling - think of the poor clutch!

Then there is the physical size and shape - motorcycle engines such as you mention are DOHC with vertical intake manifolds - a bit hard to fit under the bonnet.

The only layout that makes any kind of sense for this is the front engine / rear wheel drive and even then its a major engineering exercise although there is a smart with a gxsr motor in it out there somewhere

Pumas started with a 1.4, and a 1.7 Zetec, developed by Yamaha. The 1.7 had Nicasil bore coatings, like Porche and Hiabusa engines, hence the care you need to take regarding oil type and changes. The FRP engine was exactly the same just tuned up from 129bhp to 155bhp. FRP's had a wider track, uprated suspension and handbuilt mods to the bodywork to cover the wider wheelbase. The 1.6 was brought in to replace the unpopular 1.4, 1.7's went the length of the production run of 64000 cars. Yamaha produced 100000 1.7 engines, and a few went into Fiesta Zetec S.
Loved my Puma, but it was a thirsty little beast, especially with the roofbars for my Thule. 27/gallon, on average!

The Yamaha engine block was the same in the 1.25 (yes I know it wasn't in the Puma), 1.4 and 1.7

Personally I can't see the point in putting a bike engine in one, as has been said above the engines and gearboxes are not designed to be used in heavy cars.

Surely you want a Rocket 3 engine. No shortage of torque from a 2.3l motorcycle engine

[i]TandemJeremy - Member

You will have many issues tho - with it being a front wheel drive car mating up the drivetrain will be hard. The motorcycle engine is unit construction - gears in the same unit as the crank - so its hard to use a car gearbox as you have to modify the crankcases in a major fashion ( the exception would be a K1100 bmw motor I think and some shaft drive twins)[/i]

You don't modify the crankcases at all. You run a conversion gearbox like this one and chaindrive from the engine to the gearbox. The drive shafts slot into this gearbox

[img] [/img]

[i]Then you have the gearing issue - motorcycle engines rev to 10 000 rpm plus and will be geared for 200 mph at the red line in top for something like that kwak - so you need to drop the gearing hugely.[/i]

The ability to rev much higher is part of fun of it and the gearing is a minor issue and can be sort with the chain drive

[i]Peak torque while similar will be at much higher revs than the car - 7000 rpm needed to get rolling - think of the poor clutch![/i]

Heavy duty plates and springs will be fine for this

[i]Then there is the physical size and shape - motorcycle engines such as you mention are DOHC with vertical intake manifolds - a bit hard to fit under the bonnet.[/i]

A large bike engine is significantly smaller than a car engine and gearbox of a comparable capacity

GTDave......the Kwak engine has as much torque as a standard 1.7 puma engine and 75 more bhp......should work

Ken - Hmmm - don't like that gearbox thing at all. Chain drive? No reverse? Motorcycle high and close ratio gears? I was thinking about mating a car gearbox to the motorcycle engine using a geared primary drive. I have heard of this being done. Basically cut the gearbox off the motorbike engine and bolt on a car gearbox. Motorcycle gear ratios are all wrong for car use.

I think you will find that including the intake trumpets the engine is considerably taller.

It has as much torque yes - but that torque is at much higher revs. Even dropping the overall gearing peak torque will be a twice the road speed in first gear making for a lot of clutch slip.

Having a love of the Puma still, I was thinking of what I'd do if I had the money to play with. Someone suggested an Audi FSI engine, but what I'd thought of was getting hold of a VAG TSi engine with a 7-speed DSG box. SEAT are using it in a new hot hatch, putting out around 180ps. Small, light engine, good fuel consumption, low CO2, would make a really nice, quick Puma that's fairly cheap to run.

Here we go, copied from Autocar, would be nice in a Puma:

A Swiss tuning company has created a 200bhp version of Volkswagen’s 1.4-litre Golf GT.
Sportec has tweaked the fuel, ignition timing and boost pressure settings of the turbocharged and supercharged unit, increasing power from the standard car's 158bhp.
The 1.4-litre unit now has 211lb ft of torque, whereas the new 2.0-litre Golf GTI produces 206lb ft.
The modifications have cut the 0-62mph time from 8.2sec to 6.8, while 111mph (180km/h) arrives 3.2sec earlier.
Fuel economy is only mildly affected, dropping from 44.8mpg to 42mpg. The conversion costs £550, including installation.

Not sure I'd use that kwak motor, it's good but I don't think it has the low end of the current Busa (certainly doesn't feel like it does in use, though that could be gearing). Better tuning options for the Busa as well, given its heritage. But then Busa engines are very expensive, for all these reasons.