[Closed] Public Sector Strike 30/11

Nope. Why would I?

If my son's teachers are striking I'm taking him to Blue Planet Aquarium 😀 ... he'll probably learn as much there as in a whole week of school

Frodo - Member
Nope. Why would I?

to support our public sector

To support our public sector with wholly unreasonable demands whilst negotiations are ongoing ...no thanks.

What was Maude's threats over the weekend? I missed that one.

Was it a warning shot about getting returning us all to the 1980's, by Militarising the police and returnign us all to Scragill/Thatcher style fisticuffs and baton charges?

Can't see that one working as well this time round somehow

To support our mainly incompetent and lazy public sector... When the whole private sector has already severly suffered.

No, I'll stay at home thanks.

[img] [/img]

The demands are reasonable and there is no meaningful negotiation going on.

What the government is doing is very cynical - the unions have a series of very strict and complex legal hoops to jump thru to call a strike. The government are deliberately prolonging negotiations so that they are not over by the date of the strike leaving the unions with the task of either re balloting at great expense and inconvenience or being accused of striking while negotiations are ongoing.

Both the teachers and the NHS pensions have been reviewed recently to make them affordable and sustainable.

Binners - eihter accept what is offered or we will impose a worse deal

Calling TJ......

Lazy my arse.. Im sweating my tits off here trying to treat fat lazy patients!

To support our public sector with wholly unreasonable demands whilst [s]negotiations are ongoing[/s] the government try and stall any industrial action so the unions have to re ballot

Is what you meant to say.

PR stunt by Tories

Arse.. late again...

Where do they think more money is going to come from to pour into the public sector black hole? These protests are going on all over Europe to no avail.
I can understand your concern of course, if you are employed within the public sector but the system has been hugely abused and is bloated and inefficient now.

I think I'm getting that feeling of Deja Vu. That feeling that I've read what will follow in the next 4 pages somewhere before

And for that reason, I'm out. With a pre-emptive ARMAGEDDON 😉

Looks like it binners - can I follow you?

Well you've got your work cut out. You simly do not have the support of public opinion. Why - because we in the private sector have inferior pensions and benefits.

We however understand that its better to still have a job than a plush pension.

Yes, I'll be going.

Tto support people in services which are there for the benefit of our society as a whole, rather than private personal interests.

When the whole private sector has already severly suffered.

That's Capitalism, baby.. 😉 Oh what you don't like it that corporations can just lay thousands of workers off cos labour's cheaper in the East? That they will act according to what gives them the most profit, not what's in the best interests of their workers? Diddums. Well you can always complain to your union, can't you? Oh....

can I follow you

bet you cant help yourself by page 10.

I think you'd be well advised too Uncle Jezza, to be honest

Do your blood pressure a favour eh? Back away from the thread 😀

I'm aiming to be there. As long as my floors are laid.

lazy bloody public sector floor layers.

aaaaggggffffmmmmpppuummmpphhh

*muffled noise from edinburgh*

Lazy? Yep! 🙂

Public sector. Pffft. How frightful! DD was doing the floors in Selfridges t'other week Daaaaahling. He's reet posh, he is!

He's just popping down to mix with the proles and see how the other half live 😉

DD will make it as soon as he's packed up his hippy-hovel from College Green.

Back up there again in a few weeks binbins. :kiss:

This argument makes me chuckle every time (me chuckling). Surely the whole point of market forces and the capitalism so beloved of our private sector is you pay for a product or service based on what the market will bear. I suppose we'll soon find out what the market is prepared to pay when the product is withdrawn.

On another note, the public sector institution I work in has recently got in cahoots with a private company for IT provision and general maintainance. I have never witnessed a more outrageous waste of public money in my life. Efficient private sector? I've never seen a more incompetent, work shy, jobs worth, contract waving bunch of money sucking cynics in all my born days.

I'm very interested in the public's take on these strikes. I fully understand why they are happening but, like Frodo, i'm just not convinced you have the general public's backing on this.

The private sector have already had what little pension provision they have raided, they have had pay freezes and pay cuts (real ones where you earn the same or less than last year, not ones where you earn more but not as much more) and I think there is a feeling that it is the public sectors turn for some pain.

i'm just not convinced you have the general public's backing on this.

Probably don't because of the relentless propaganda from the right wing press for years that has led to a totally false impression of what is going on.

[i]I think there is a feeling that it is the public sectors turn for some pain. [/i]

It's crabs in a bucket isn't it - drag everyone down to the lowest level rather than supportign people fighting to maintain their entitlement.

Why - because we in the private sector have inferior pensions and benefits.

Is this the politics of envy the right wing bleat on about?

Have you thought about perhaps sorting out your own pension deals brather than asking that everyone else has shit deal like the private sector- except of course the board members of the private sector.

I cal armageddon and leave as well- what the point we just get the same folk saying the same stuff

We need to sort out pensions in general and a race to the bottom is not the best way of achieveing this.

We doing lunch then Bravisimo? Mwah!

Can we all make an effort to call DD Bravisimo from now on please? As it amuses me in a childish, schoolboy way, and also summons [i]THAT[/i] advert 😀

The other threat was the old 40% turnout rubbish 'might be considered in future'.

i'm just not convinced you have the general public's backing on this.

I'm the general public btw, private sector.

It's crabs in a bucket isn't it - drag everyone down to the lowest level rather than supportign people fighting to maintain their entitlement.

Correct

Why should it be a race to the bottom?

i'm just not convinced you have the general public's backing on this.

Probably don't because of the relentless propaganda from the right wing press for years that has led to a totally false impression of what is going on.

Don't the public sector make up a (too) large part of the general public? I bet they're supporting each other.

And to counter the mighty TJ's arguements-

Probably don't because of the relentless propaganda from the left wing press for years that has led to a totally false impression of what is going on.

Looks like it binners - can I follow you?

Probably don't because of the relentless propaganda from the right wing press for years that has led to a totally false impression of what is going on.

I think that's a more than reasonable demand, Bin-Bins.I don't see why not quite frankly.

If this thread's just going to descend into the same old same old, can we instead do something about architecture? We jolly well have not had a nice architecture thread in ages! 😀

Or what about woodwork? Art? Music?

[i]BIKES[/i]?????

Well, it's just a thought, y'know...

[i]the relentless propaganda from the left wing press[/i]

errrm, what left wing press? The guardian and the daily worker are hardly the majority, are they?

public sector worker here and i will not be going out on strike

I get what the arguement is for but i think its all a bit gun ho to start a strike there are better ways to resolve this, I know that a work to rule in this office would do a lot more damage than a one day walk out

apart from that I'm only on a temp contract for 3 years and would quite like to keep the job on after so upsetting the bosses by striking isnt going to help

oh and if i strike it will cost me over 100 pounds in lost wages in the pay before christmas so not a good idea

I love this term 'race to the bottom' but what does it actually mean?

The fact is that for the past 10 - 20 years our economy has been growing on debt. We now have the situation where not only do we have to pay this back but we have to completely restructure our economy onto a sustainable footing.

The reality is that it is not a race to the bottom it is part of rebalancing the economy.

Unfortunately the unions wish to protect their employees. That is right and completely natural for them. Don't however expect support from the general punblic.

The unions can only protect their own members at the expence of other people, FACT.

As a nurse im undecided whether to strike or not.
we are constantly under pressure, in a very stressful job that you dont just walk away from at the end of the day.
Our pensions are being eroded.
Govt are trying to privatise us quietly.
Ultimately the families we work with are going to suffer.
Very thankful i have a job, but maybe its time to stand up and shout a bit more.

Looks like it might be worth going just for a scrap.
[url] http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/nov/19/edl-splinter-group-target-unions [/url]

I have no reason to go and support their battle for a better deal but wish them luck. Why not try to get the best you can?

I hate the attitude of those who want to bring everyone else down rather than aspire to better for themselves and others. What a crap way to think.

If this thread's just going to descend into the same old same old, can we instead do something about architecture? We jolly well have not had a nice architecture thread in ages!

why do people say something controversial and then say FACT at the end of it ?
Surely capitalism is a non zero sum game and we can all be winners ....have they been lying to us all along ?

Oh it could be fun to stay her and use the right wingers arguments against them

Anyway more importatnly
Bravisimo DD for binners

Sigh..........

(point to self, avoid political/economic debates on STW - unless you enjoy getting giddy!!)

I almost came back on global warming one after recent IPCC report indicating major tone down on impact of human activity, but then again, what's the point? Better to get on our bikes and ride!!

I'm in the private sector, collect & pay VAT, collect and Pay Tax & NI, have silently fumed as my pension has been decimated, watched wages in the Public Sector soar way above anything I or any other similar one man private sector tax generator will receive for our efforts.

I'm thinking we in the private sector should organise ourselves, I'm thinking enough is enough, I'm wondering what would happen if we did all get together then had a Tax Strike, refused to pay the VAT, they couldn't jail all of us could they? What are they going to pay the prison guards with? How would the politicians continue to get paid, then if we also refused our council tax?

Maybe someone might start listening to us, I mean, not much to ask is it? We do generate the cash after all.

The unions can only protect their own members at the expence of other people, FACT.

why do people say something controversial and then say FACT at the end of it ?

(Isn't 30 November a public holiday in Scotland anyway ??)

I guess I will be Striking from Home that day.

I'm thinking we in the private sector should organise ourselves, I'm thinking enough is enough, I'm wondering what would happen if we did all get together then had a Tax Strike, refused to pay the VAT, they couldn't jail all of us could they? What are they going to pay the prison guards with? How would the politicians continue to get paid, then if we also refused our council tax?

You can just walk away from this thread (you too, TJ) - they'll all get bored and stop arguing if there's nobody to argue with.

Yeah; it would be nice to let some of the Little Hitters have a bash for a change. Most of them aren't very good at proper arguing, and often make themselves look a bit silly. Could be fun. 🙂

Just one little tickle though:

Who do you think pays the bills for the public sector? It's everyone else. FACT.

And who d'you think pays for all the goods, services and products the private sector produces, keeping them in business? Hmm?

😉

Kettle's on. Who's having what?

Teamhurtmore - link for IPCC please 😛
Come on very slow day at work ...indulge me 😉

That's Capitalism, baby.. Oh what you don't like it that corporations can just lay thousands of workers off cos labour's cheaper in the East? That they will act according to what gives them the most profit, not what's in the best interests of their workers? Diddums. Well you can always complain to your union, can't you? Oh....

Doesn't bother me in the slightest, it's survival of the fittest in the real world (private sector). If I'm lazy or do a poor job, I don't get to keep my job. In the public sector if you do a shit job you get promoted or moved sideways it seems.

Just to give you some background on how my opinion has been formed... I used to work with various county councils, the vast majority of people I came across would be unemployable in the private sector, anyone loosing their job is in for a real shock. As an example of the crap I came across on a regular basis the 'construction division' of a local council that I worked with had the number of employees you would expect to see in a £90m turnover construction company. They turned over about £15m a year and lots of external contractors were used because the construction division couldn't cope.

The construction division when tendering for a job would quote 20 weeks, then end up taking 26 weeks to complete a job. The external contractor would quote 10 weeks for the same job and actually complete on time. The construction division was also a liability and once covered 20 school kids in asbestos dust becuase they were so incompetent.

All of that is by the by, at the end of the day the country can't afford the public sector as it is, so something needs to change.

No really JY - you don't want to!! If I am really bored later, I might resurrect the thread. It was all about how both sides mis-quote the evidence agin this week, as is usual in most of these debates!! Hence wrote post last night, thought better of it, and deleted it. Life's too short!!

We should be supporting our public sector staff. Sure, there a minority who sit in back offices waiting to collect their pensions. However, there's a vast number who work for the likes of the NHS who need our support. Unlike the private sector, their pay isn't great - however the people who go into it, mainly do so for the pension.

If the government continue to cut their pensions, and on-call systems the staff will simply move out of the public sector. Probably into the private sector, and abroad.

If we lose our NHS as public service, quite frankly we'll be fu*ked. If you have any minor, ongoing condition, you're going to be paying through the nose for insurance. Sports like mountain biking will be HEAVILY charged by private medical insurance.

Support our NHS and our nurses/doctors.

gsp1984 - that may all be true but it doesn't mean that people who've worked for 40+ years to one pension contract shouldn't have another imposed on them - whether they work int he public or private sector?

public sector inefficiency and employee pension rights aren't the same thing and don't need to be linked.

I think there is a feeling that it is the public sectors turn for some pain.

more or less sums it up for me, i know a few public sector employees and they don't exactly have a hard life, however it's the sharp end that really suffers (nurses etc), it's the bloated middle management and administrators that are a waste.
all they seem to do is fire off pointless emails to try and justify their jobs.

 

Makes chicken noises in your general direction - kidding in general- you are correct some "debate" [ they are not actually debates are they] are just a bit pointless

Having just worked 30 hrs straight some of us in public sector work hard.

I won't be striking though support anyone who does.

It's the lack of accountability that really gets me, if a private sector director invested 50 million and lost it, he'd be gone instead of still sitting there laying off front line services whilst retaining his/her £250k pa salary for running a county council.

that may all be true but it doesn't mean that people who've worked for 40+ years to one pension contract shouldn't have another imposed on them - whether they work int he public or private sector?

There is no suggestion that accrued benefits will be lost so people in this position will see little change in their entitlement.

it's the bloated middle management and administrators that are a waste.

Probably a lot of truth in that. However the thing I've never worked out is how does one determine what is an appropriate amount of middle management and administrative staff?. The Police seem to get lambasted for this on a fairly regular cycle. Either they get a bollocking because too many police officers are wasting time doing administration rather out on the streets fighting crime, or they get a bollocking because they are spending too much money employing back-room admin staff when they could be spending the money on Police officers.

In the same way that there's [i]good[/i] AIDS, and [i]bad[/i] AIDS, (see Brass Eye) could we not do the same with the public sector

We could send in someone no-nonsense and common sense (William Hague? Richard Littlejohn? Kelvin Mackenzie?) who will walk around all public sector building slapping big red crosses or big green ticks on people. Then we, the general public, can distinguish who we should support.

So poor Michelle, the hassled A&E nurse gets a big tick, but fat dereck who works in the planning department, you know the one, with his soup-stained tie, and his halitosis, he's had it. Get your coat fatty.....

And don't get me started on Colin in Marketing, with his four hour lunches and his taxi's everywhere on expenses. Pah. He can **** right off

JY -it will take more than that!!!

Hint, check out Christopher Booker in weekend Telegraph, then how BBC reports the news on latest report generally (major jump in assumptions/links between two opening paras) and then how Richard Black reports it. And we accuse people of selective editing on here at times - it made me smile though!!

Anyway - just in from a ride, so time to clean up. Good luck with the debate here - is it taking place in a fantasy Swindon by any chance?

It's the lack of accountability that really gets me, if a private sector director invested 50 million and lost it, he'd be gone instead of still sitting there laying off front line services whilst retaining his/her £250k pa salary for running a county council.

50 million?
Chicken feed.
[url] http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-11-08/news/30372320_1_tsuyoshi-kikukawa-olympus-internal-auditor [/url]

I like the idea Binners, Instead of ticks we could we have Livestrong style wristbands. Maybe blue for workers and red for shirkers (I'm planning on selling the idea to a Tory think-tank). Obviously if you had a blue band you'll be allowed to sell it to a shirker on ebay, then the market could find the true natural worth of a worker. It's genius.
Probably requires a bit of administration, but I'm sure Capita will be able to handle it in their normal competent manner.

TandemJeremy - Member

i'm just not convinced you have the general public's backing on this.

Probably don't because of the relentless propaganda from the right wing press for years that has led to a totally false impression of what is going on.

Oh here we go again, we're supposed to believe we'd all be socialists if it wasnt for that right-wing press infecting our impressionable little minds with their evil free-market ideology.

I thought we were all going to try and get along?

aaaaggggffffmmmmpppuummmpphhh

*muffled noise from edinburgh*

Working in the public sector

Job - check
Pension - check
Sick time - check
Good holiday - check
Right to whinge - check
Sympathy from everyone else?

I'm thinking we in the private sector should organise ourselves

Join a union?

Don't get us all to join a union FFS! Sweet Jesus! Haven't we been through enough over the last couple of years?!!! If we join a union, then they'll really start picking on us! 🙄

Sorry Binners, stupid mistake.

Join a Livery?

Probably don't because of the relentless propaganda from the right wing press for years that has led to a totally false impression of what is going on.

So you're able to filter this out but the public at large aren't?
Not sure whether that makes you super intelligent & the general public super thick or the other way around

If only everyone could see though TJs eyes, how sweet would the world be then?

I hope the strike doesn't delay the Snow Leopard I'm hiring, I think it's all run by a public sector org.
Saw the ad on Dave, £3/month and you can have a Snow Leopard - bargin

Hang on Jota, TJ will be back in a second to apologise, I heard the new TJ isnt going to be condescending us anymore.

Race to the bottom is a nice phrase used by the union and union members to describe their pension situation. No getting away from the simple maths though. Live longer = Contribute more OR for longer to your pension.
SIMPLE

Oh here we go again, we're supposed to believe we'd all be socialists if it wasnt for that right-wing press infecting our impressionable little minds with their evil free-market ideology.

I thought we were all going to try and get along

Are you claiming our press is neither mainly right wing nor not capable of influencing the publics perceptions?
Why not address the claims rather than make a totally false representation of what he said?
He did not compare it to brainwashing nor did he suggest it would lead to a socialist utopia

Perhaps you should look at your own behaviour there as well
What he said was far more reasonable that what you said and what you seem to claim he meant

aaaaggggffffmmmmpppuummmpphhh

*muffled noise from edinburgh*

Definitely not rightwing media:

[img] [/img]

djglover - Member

Race to the bottom is a nice phrase used by the union and union members to describe their pension situation. No getting away from the simple maths though. Live longer = Contribute more OR for longer to your pension.
SIMPLE

and the NHS and teachers schemes have already done this and limited the taxpayer contributions.