[Closed] PSA: War on britain's roads on BBC1

Only saw a minute, where a taxi driver who looked like a normal bloke was saying he was just trying to make a living was followed by a cut to a slightly smirking, geeky looking chap who didn't say anything.

Couldn't help thinking that message was "look, here's this guy- he's just like you, just trying to get on and provide for his family. But just look at [i]this[/i] guy, trying to make a point at our expense."

OK, I'm reading a lot into a minute! But it suggested the tone was 'normal people vs militant cyclists' which is not helpful at all.

That first video is part of my commute. I seem to manage to ride down those roads all the time without the need for either shoutyness on my part, or being assaulted! Its hardly central London!

As I said before, i only know one person who's been physically assaulted on his bike, and its happened to him twice. But if you met him you'd understand why. He's an absolute ****!

Martin Porter's [url= http://thecyclingsilk.blogspot.co.uk/2012/12/the-bbc-and-war-on-britains-roads.html ]well considered view [/url]

Michael Hutchinson, apparently, a cycling journo.

Also a very successful bike racer, and more significantly a qualified lawyer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Hutchinson_(cyclist)

Also a very successful bike racer, and more significantly a qualified lawyer

Didn't he also sing in INXS?

That first video is part of my commute. I seem to manage to ride down those roads all the time without the need for either shoutyness on my part, or being assaulted! Its hardly central London!

As I said before, i only know one person who's been physically assaulted on his bike, and its happened to him twice. But if you met him you'd understand why. He's an absolute ****!

I knew two guys who used to courier in London (maybe 10 years ago now). One managed to get through the week without any major problems and he actually held the record for a long time for number of deliveries made in one day for that firm. You don't get those kind of records by riding 100% within the letter of the law, it requires a fair bit of creative riding at the best of times! However, he never really had any problems, certainly never got knocked off.

The other guy never went more than a couple of days without a confrontation. He rode in the same sort of way as Courier 1 above but never kept his head. Smashed up numerous cars, got into arguments, got beaten up (and beat up more than a couple of other people), got knocked off. Shouty, loud, always thought he was right even when he was lying on the ground having been decked mid junction after jumping the red light.

If you go looking for trouble you will [b]always[/b] find it. If you keep your head, you'll largely escape unscathed, even when you're in the wrong (jumping reds, riding on the pavement etc).

I seem to shout at other cyclists more than drivers these days.
when they realised that there was a cycling boom in London two or three years ago they should have taken action to make sure that everyone was behaving.
Now cyclists just take the piss when it comes to riding like morons and running red lights. The damage has already been done.

I don't think he's looking for trouble he just doesn't cower in the gutter and let bully drivers push him around the road.

Exactly. Sadly the predominant view of drivers, which was completely confirmed by last night's programme, is that cyclists should ride in the gutter so that they can get past as quick as possible. Even more sadly it would appear that a significant number of people on this forum agree with them!

It's obviously not a good idea to antagonize them but if someone cuts you up (like the guy who deliberately cut in on me at high speed last week cos he took exception to me being in the middle of a bus lane) or comes dangerously close then I think you're within your rights to say something or give the vehicle a slap to let them know they're driving like d*cks. It's not 'looking for trouble', it's defending yourself.

"you're within your rights to say something or give the vehicle a slap"

Car on Car ... you beep the horn and have a swear up at the fella infront, whos cut you up what ever, ... thing is he really can't hear you screaming and shouting and does't feel that threatened, even if he has heard the horn

Bike on Car ... no horn, so you slap the car and because you are next to the drivers/passengers window the fella can hear and feel threatened/wound up by every word you shout...

Add to this the fact that you are already "out" of your vehicle you can understand why the fella in the actual car gets out of his and all merry hell breaks lose.

Take care peeps

thing is we're talking about [i]slapping[/i] a car here, not smashing it up, keying it or otherwise damaging it. People are sooooooo sensitive about their cars despite the fact they have driven ridiculously close to a cyclist or pedestrian, what do they expect?
Mid stupid manoeuvre slapping a car to alert the driver of your presence is fair game IMO, will get a quicker reaction* than just shouting. Slapping car as punishment after the fact...you're on dodgy ground and yes antagonistic, you can get a similar less aggressive effect by stopping next top them putting your hand on the roof and leaning in to the window to (hopefully) discuss what a knob they've been, depends on circumstances tho.

*ie they'll immediately hit the brakes rather than look around wondering where the shouting is coming from

Funny how they get so upset at the merest of touches of their vehicle from a cyclist yet drive them in a manner which is likely to cause much more significant damage when they crash it into something/someone.

For the record, the only time I will slap a car is if they are alongside and coming closer, and not as an after the fact act of retribution. Can't say I've not fantasised about getting one of [url= http://www.spservices.co.uk/item/EMI_EMIWindscreenCenterPunch_76_0_24_0.html ]these[/url] though 🙂

I've tried to stop ranting, as its me on the bike that looks a plum. If in slow traffic and i've been irritated I like to just half open (on the latch not swinging open) the rear nearside door. Obviously if its a 3 door or there is a little'n it wont work but when it does it tickles me.

Once I saw a roadie have a fag flicked at him. He then undertook and squirted most of his bottle contents through the van drivers window

Funny how they get so upset at the merest of touches of their vehicle from a cyclist yet drive them in a manner which is likely to cause much more significant damage when they crash it into something/someone.

I've had that exact discussion with someone once when I slapped his car as he was pushing me sideways into the kerb pulling a no-look-left-hook on me...

Can't remember who it was (Luke maybe?) Who used to advocate opening the boot of offending car, saying you're piece through the now open boot before riding off. Unfortunately, I've never been in a situation to give it a go 😛

dazh that would be criminal and wreckless (and possibly funny as *** doing it to a deserving recipient)

Open the rear passenger door - can't drive off with it open.

I was surprised people were saying that it was the cyclists fault when he hit the woman on the cycle path. Would they say the say if someone tried to cross the road without looking?

Think it was the cyclists fault on the cycle path. If you're bringing up the rear then you should be in control and be able to cope with any eventuality. However it does highlight the complete uselessness of shared use cycle paths. Whoever thought it was a good idea to put bikes and pedestrians together must have been taking some interesting drugs.

I was surprised people were saying that it was the cyclists fault when he hit the woman on the cycle path.

Would they say the say if someone tried to cross the road without looking?

Pedestrians in the vicinity of cycle lanes I view in the same way as sheep on the trails. Only about ten times as stupid!

Hence coming up behind them at that speed will [i]always[/i] have the potential for what happened there

I was a bit ambivalent about the cycle path one, partly due to lack of knowledge of the location, e.g. how much / what signage was there? Makes a difference in my view whether it's effectively a footpath that bikes are permitted on, or a cycleway that pedestrians also use. There's a few bits of pavement I use (permitted) that I will treat accordingly, and go at walking pace if there's pedestrians, then there's dedicated cycleways where I'd expect pedestrians to be expecting bikes, at bike speed, to be going, and I'll go at bike speed.

HOWEVER, if going at bike speed and approaching pedestrians from behind, I would go for an audible signal of approach (bell, call of "bike behind", "excuse me", Hope hubs or whatever), well in advance of reaching their asses.

Got caught by one on a shared use, separated by paint path (wideish pavement, one half of it painted green with bike pictograms at regular intervals) - pedestrian with earphones in decided to go sideways for no apparent reason rather like the one last night, right as I was on her shoulder (from the ped side to the bike side). Wasn't going quick, but still no chance of avoiding her. "What happened?" she screamed "Err, you walked into the bike path as I was coming past." "What do you mean?" "Err..."

HOWEVER, if going at bike speed and approaching pedestrians from behind, I would go for an audible signal of approach (bell, call of "bike behind", "excuse me", Hope hubs or whatever), well in advance of reaching their asses.

I use shared-use paths a lot and use a bell and I find it very hit-and-miss:

[b]Some peds [i]love[/i] it[/b] when you ring a bell (I had a guy the other day earnestly say "Thank you very much. Well done young man. Good morning")

[b]Some peds [i]hate[/i] it[/b] when you ring the bell and glare at you - presumably because they equate it to sounding a horn and shouting "Get out of the way!" instead of the polite "Hello,I'm here" it is intended as. (I deliberately chose a nice polite ting-ting bell)

[b]Some peds never ever hear the bell[/b]. (headphones, hoods, old folk, mobiles, general complete lack of awareness).

[b]Some peds crap themselves[/b] and behave irrationally - like leaping from where they were perfectly safely walking to a position that is directly in your path.

As a result I judge each ped as I come to them and only ring the bell if I think they'll get a fright from me passing, or they have dogs/children/ferrets to keep safe.

[img] [/img]

Some peds crap themselves and behave irrationally - like leaping from where they were perfectly safely walking to a position that is directly in your path.

It's interesting to see the differences in the UK and Europe - in Germany, if a pedestrian hears a bell, they keep walking but perhaps move over a little bit. In the UK, they look around and wander all over the path in the process.

It's what people are used to, I guess.

But that woman was walking along the path and then turned to exit the foot/bike path, she didn't just turn for no reason. the guy on the bike was going to fast to weave between pedestrians and didn't make any attempt to make himself known.

Ah, I didn't see that she was making for an exit from the path - looked to me like she just went sideways for no discernable reason (which I've experienced, see earlier post), hence my ambivalence.

Cyclegaz/Gareth is actually Will off the Inbetweeners. Fact!

That is all I have to contribute to this thread.

Fuel truck faaaarrrrkkkk

I had this happen to me twice 🙁

One a tanker and the other artic tipper thing with scrap wanting to go over the Severn Bridge. Nearly killed me and GF...after seeing that again. Flashback. Absolute header that lorry driver.

As a result I judge each ped as I come to them and only ring the bell if I think they'll get a fright from me passing, or they have dogs/children/ferrets to keep safe.

I usually just shout "good morning/evening" if I think there's a chance they don't know I'm there or with horses etc.
That usually gets a pleasant reply.

That one on the programme was way too fast, for the situation in front of him.

But that woman was walking along the path and then turned to exit the foot/bike path, she didn't just turn for no reason. the guy on the bike was going to fast to weave between pedestrians and didn't make any attempt to make himself known.

counter, do you switch across all lanes on a motorway without looking first?

Some peds crap themselves and behave irrationally - like leaping from where they were perfectly safely walking to a position that is directly in your path.

I've had this a few times. Last time a women walking her rather large dog stepped out in front of me from behind a hedge row. I started to swerve around her and shouted so that'd she'd stop, but instead she jumped forward further into my path! Missed her by less than a foot and her dogs face by less than an inch.

I dont have a bell on my race bike so just tend to shout, mostly people are fine with it, but there's always a few who get arsey who do something silly.

why don't the police have blue flashing LEDS on ther police push bikes?

why don't the police have blue flashing LEDS on ther police push bikes?

I think they should have a big blue light on top of their helmets, with an integrated siren 😀

^ 😆

but seriously they should have something better than a whistle...

few people now will associate a whistle with the police... more liek ravers and refs..

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

from
http://www.policebikestore.com/ lots of cool stuff! why don't the UK guys have this?

I was surprised people were saying that it was the cyclists fault when he hit the woman on the cycle path. Would they say the say if someone tried to cross the road without looking?

I will generally defend the cyclists point of view (partly because no-one else does!) but in this case he was being a Richard.

Regardless of ROW (which more than likely belonged to the pedestrian) that collision was innevitable and stupid. You can't pass that close at that speed, on a path that offers no distinction from one side to the other, and expect not to crash into anyone. It's gonna happen sooner or later. That seems pretty obvious.

It's quite annoying when we demand respect from drivers but are unwilling to pass it on to those vulnerable to us.

counter, do you switch across all lanes on a motorway without looking first?

Just being pedantic, but i wouldn't be turning right of a motorway!!

I know what you're saying but there was more peds than just her walking along that path. It looked quite well used by both bikes and peds so i would expect bikers to be more wary!

why don't the police have blue flashing LEDS on ther police push bikes?

Lumicycle make a nice unit with dual Halogen headlights, dual flashing blue LEDs, a siren and tailight:

[img] [/img]

[img] http://www.lumicycle.com/image.aspx?product=POL_TAIL;Warehouse;Warehouse [/img]

http://www.lumicycle.com/product/71/police-emergency-and-paramedics.htm

Never seen them being used on the street though.

We need more bike cops like him.

That collar of his must of felt good... proper Police work 🙂

must of felt good

I'd be more concerned about the grammar police if I were you

Lol

You naah wot I meen !

I have to say doing that speed on a shared path is asking for trouble (I avoid them completely).

Putting cops on bikes is only going to cause more accidents, no?
[img] [/img]
EDIT:Hopefully those subtitles aren't offensive to anyone. 😳

[img] [/img]

Pook - Member
Appropriate use of bed music BBC.

woman who's daughter was killed by a cement truck....

Song choice: DJ Shadow, Organ Donor

Just watched this on iPlayer (interesting programme), they may have changed the track but that was "[b]stem[/b]" not "organ donor"

I don't think Gaz goes out "looking for trouble", but seems unnecessarily antagonistic when he experiences poor road use.

I thought the program was quite balanced, there are idiot cyclists and idiot motorists.
Thank heavens I don't commute by bike in that London, it doesn't look much fun...

butcher+1