[Closed] PSA: War on britain's roads on BBC1

Adapt. Flow. Use the brakes. Turn the bars. Focus. Keep cool. Stop at red lights. Let other people make mistakes.

'seasy, innit.

what like going around a roundabout? (2 incidences on the programme)
plenty of situations where there's no competitive stuff going on, just riding along and another road user does something mind numbingly stupid and nearly kills you.

Ah, the old selective quoting, you can't beat it

I don't ride in London but I also don't find myself in the dangerous situations that [b]some folks[/b] seem to think are the norm, I can only put it down to deferring to things that are likely to kill me or seriously hurt me, rather than competing with them.

Still not getting why some people think Gaz was a cock

Some people just are. He was, and is. The hand-clapping the cabbie as he was getting back in to his cab was just deliberately and unnecessarily provocative.

Funnily enough, I only know one person who's been physically assaulted while out on the bike. And its happened to him twice. However... if you'd met him, you soon understand why slapping him would be tempting. He's probably the most smug, pompous, superior, sanctimonious spod I've ever met in my life*. He could start an argument in an empty room. I don't know what he did to provoke either assault, but I'm pretty sure that some provocation was indeed involved

* A textbook MAMIL BTW. Got into it a couple of years back, now thinks he's Bradley Wiggins, on his full carbon ego-chariot

http://t.co/HGpACVk2
Pedal on Parliment campaign.

The hand-clapping the cabbie as he was getting back in to his cab was just deliberately and unnecessarily provocative.

He was aware that he made himself look like a cock. Whether that was just for the camera, I don't know...

It doesn't really matter if it was for the camera or not. If you behave like that at any time, then you're a cock. End of story

And getting the living **** kicked out of you would only be a matter of time, if you carried on like that regularly, I'd imagine

Well I didn't see the programme but I knew what would happen.

For the last hour or so I have had the following from my non-cycling colleagues at work who saw the programme:

[list]
[*]Cyclists are all stupid/arrogant.
[*]EVERY cyclist runs red lights.
[*]EVERY cyclist should use the cycle path if there is one.
[*]EVERY cyclist is a nob and it should be banned.
[*]Cyclists should [i]never[/i] be in the middle of the lane, regardless of safety.
[/list]

Some even went on to blame Wiggo for his recent accident ("Should stay off the road, where cars are meant to be.") and started joking about how they were going to set-up their screen washers to spray water at cyclists as they pass.

Thanks BBC, for making my life pretty miserable from idiots.

Let's be honest the media can portray you in anyway they want.

Last night was sloppy, lazy journalism.

We should be challenging the film makers to provide an objectively focussed documentary which could offer solutions instead of all lining up to call Gaz a ****.

It doesn't really matter if it was for the camera or not. If you behave like that at any time, then you're a cock. End of story

The camera line was just a bit of obviously overly-subtle humour, but you're being a bit harsh. We all have been cocks at some point or another and some of us realise and alter our behaviour, some don't. I can't really tell how old the bloke is but I reckon he's still got time for that to take place.

I suppose it goes back to the self-preservation thing teasel. In the same way I wouldn't squeeze up the inside of an artic, I wouldn't stoke up an unnecessary confrontation with someone who was already pretty bloody angry with me. Law of averages suggests if you do, then being on the receiving end of a right shoe-ing will only be a matter of time.

Though I suspect you're right that he'd be considerably less gobby without a camera

Should stay off the road, where cars are meant to be

Sadly people forget that there were roads many many years before cars even existed.

As for the prat with the glasses it seems he has a more sensible side:

[url= http://www.sillycyclists.co.uk ]Silly Cyclists[/url]

Ah, the old selective quoting, you can't beat it

binners - Member

Still not getting why some people think Gaz was a cock

Some people just are. He was, and is. The hand-clapping the cabbie as he was getting back in to his cab was just deliberately and unnecessarily provocative.

FFS.

The guy is 24, and made a bit of a twunt of himself when high on adrenalin after being bullied by a big aggressive cabbie. No one else on here has done similar? All perfect are we? 🙄

It's SO *ING IRRITATING that this is the point that CYCLSISTS take away from the program "heh that guy was a bit of a knob heh heh" THERE ARE BIGGER MORE IMPORTANT *ING ISSUES TO CONSIDER HERE YOU MORONS.

Cyclists are all stupid/arrogant.
EVERY cyclist runs red lights.
EVERY cyclist should use the cycle path if there is one.
EVERY cyclist is a nob and it should be banned.
Cyclists should never be in the middle of the lane, regardless of safety.

Some even went on to blame Wiggo for his recent accident ("Should stay off the road, where cars are meant to be.") and started joking about how they were going to set-up their screen washers to spray water at cyclists as they pass.

The hand-clapping the cabbie as he was getting back in to his cab was just deliberately and unnecessarily provocative.

R4 today programme - review of show around 2.41 in.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01p3n07

Not seen it yet (will catch it later on iPlayer) but I take it Gareth/Gaz is [url= http://www.youtube.com/user/CycleGaz ]CycleGaz off of YouTube[/url] and [url= http://www.sillycyclists.co.uk ]SillyCyclists[/url]?

If it is then I have a lot of time for his videos and the SillyCyclists series.

He may come across as smug/arrogant/whatever to some, but his advice generally seems pretty sound in terms of taking the primary where required, making eye contact, being seen, not riding up the inside of lorries, not salmoning, not RLJing, signalling etc etc

He doesn't do that well when actually in a road rage situation himself - but then how many of us do?

[url= http://road.cc/content/news/71714-truth-first-casualty-bbcs-war-britains-roads ]As road.cc says[/url]: [i]"Also lost was the reason why the likes of Cyclegaz perhaps come across as a bit shouty – any rider who has had a large vehicle pass that close to them, where a couple of inches nearer could result in serious injury or worse, will have experienced that rush of adrenalin mixed with shock and fear."[/i]

Aye the 2 folk on Today actually did a half decent job - especially the cyclist (MArtin Hutcheson?)

The Bertrand Russell documentary after was great too 😀

Easy Al!

The bottom line is that last nights programme was going to change nobodies point of view. Just re-enforce peoples existing prjudices. Pretty much everyone on the roads hate us anyway. At best we're an inconvenience, at worst, a target.

If its the bloke who's done the silly cyclist thing fair play to him. But the whole hand clapping thing to me looked like he was engineering getting punched on camera, to prove a point

True dat Adam

What I dont get ois the way they se one bad cyclist then call us all names

Its hardl;y likely they experince no bad driving from a car during the same period

IME many road users are very incosiderate but cyclsits are much mor elikely to get hurt so we need to lok at drivers

I really dont get the atitude of your fellow owrkers but it is all too prevalant

I think we should make every car driver cycle for 4 hours a year in ruch hour as nothing else will educate them to as to what its like

Many road users are cocks and we need to realise we share the space and the objective is for no one to get hurt not for me to be the fastest over the next 50 yds.

What Al said as well

We have all made mistakes and got angry but really do we need to make how he appeared the central issue?

The crux is how to get drivers to treat us with respect and obey the laws and hwo we can get idiot cyclists to obey the law

Its not us v them its about us all being safer

mudshark - Member

"Not much being said about cyclists wearing earphones got to be the daftest thing to do"

I think this is true as it's harder for cyclists to see what's going on around them compared to cars

Really? On the bike I'm higher up than most drivers with no pillars casuing blind spots and in traffic I can usually see further ahead than if I was in a car.

R4 today programme - review of show around 2.41 in.

Nope. Clicked through - couldn't find it anywhwere.

I was approaching a dog leg in the road and heard something approaching fast from behind. I didn't like the idea of anyone passing me on this dog leg

I don't go through those sort of sections of road without checking behind visually and taking primary. If that had been, say, an electric car, you'd not have heard it.

What's the cost of an accident?

Metro ran something recently saying "Deaths and injuries on Britain’s roads costs the NHS £470m every year and the economy £8bn".

I thought I'd heard some £m's per (fatal?) accident before. How much did the twunts taking themselves out of the gene pool racing on the M1 cost the country I wonder? M1 closed through morning rush hour plus huge cleanup?

Deaf people: I have heard they tend to have heightened awareness through their other senses, and therefore are probably more sensitive to what is going on around them than most other people with all senses working perfectly.

I'm only partially deaf but other senses are not heightened, we just pay more attention the the ones we have and be aware of situations where visual checks are more necessary due to not being able to hear.

You can use the same behaviour when using headphones, or on a very windy day when travelling at speed (often louder than music in ears), having headphones in is not inherently dangerous as you CAN still hear and as long as you are aware of the impact it has on your senses and the need to compensate in certain circumstances.

You can hear more on a bike with headphones in than you can in a car (even one without the radio on) unless you have the volume up stupidly loud.

Really? On the bike I'm higher up than most drivers with no pillars casuing blind spots and in traffic I can usually see further ahead than if I was in a car.

Yeah but mirrors help in a car - I'm very conscious of what's happening in my mirrors, look around a lot on the bike too but can never be as good.

The thing about Als hero Gaz is that he seems to think it is his right and resonsibility to pull people up and change their behaviour, sorry to burst his bubble but its not.

You will notice as he was riding along how many other cyclist managed to not get into a fight with the motorists.

The fact is he is going out looking for trouble clearly he is going to find it, if he rode in a slightly more defensive manner then his blood pressure might be lower.

I think we have to realise that the road network is designed for cars, buses and lorries NOT bikes (motor or push)

Once you accept that then life is a bit easier.

Im not saying its right, it just happens to be the way it is. In the case of self preservation i consoder every vehcle a threat and i ride in a manner that will keep me out of its way as much as possible.

Eyes and ears open at all times.

Yeah but mirrors help in a car

Getting everyone to follow the rules is what we're after (and a shitload of proper infrastructure)

*of course we know it sometimes is, but like with the roundabout stuff discussed earlier if taken to the extreme you'll never ride on the roads or ride everywhere an inch form the kerb at 2mph and keep stopping every minute to check for idiots. Be prepared for shit to happen but don't constantly defer to the larger traffic.

Really? On the bike I'm higher up than most drivers with no pillars casuing blind spots and in traffic I can usually see further ahead than if I was in a car.

Yeah but mirrors help in a car - I'm very conscious of what's happening in my mirrors, look around a lot on the bike too but can never be as good.

In a car your vision is surely better simply because it is not hindered by balance and shifting body weight. Turning to look out your passenger window in a car doesnt affect the car at all however on a bike you have to shift your weight a little to balance the bike

The thing about Als hero Gaz is that he seems to think it is his right and resonsibility to pull people up and change their behaviour, sorry to burst his bubble but its not.

Edmund Burke?

Are you really complaining about someone trying to make a difference rather than knowing their proper place, rolling over and meekly taking it as they should?

Confrontation isn't my style, (I'm perhaps a bit older and wiser than Gaz) but I'd stand my ground and ride in the way I believe is safest, even if it means upsetting the odd driver.

The fact is he is going out looking for trouble clearly he is going to find it, if he rode in a slightly more defensive manner then his blood pressure might be lower

[quote=GrahamS ]I'd stand my ground [b]and[/b] ride in the way I believe is safest,
Often they are not the same

mechmonkey - Member
In a car your vision is surely better simply because it is not hindered by balance and shifting body weight. Turning to look out your passenger window in a car doesnt affect the car at all however on a bike you have to shift your weight a little to balance the bike

😐

Cyclists are all stupid/arrogant.
EVERY cyclist runs red lights.
EVERY cyclist should use the cycle path if there is one.
EVERY cyclist is a nob and it should be banned.
Cyclists should never be in the middle of the lane, regardless of safety.

did they actually watch the program?

The problem with the program is it didn't really explain anything. It was just two opposing sides slagging each other off without any reasoned middle-ground. It's all right knowing the cyclist's point of view to begin with, but most people don't and are naturally going to side with the opinions of the drivers. When they say 'get back in the cycle lane, you ****!', many will be sitting there nodding their heads.

From a general prespective it done nothing but reinforce stereotypes, and since there was a distinct lack of reasoned commentary, the general public will fill in the gaps as they wish.

I wouldn't mind too much. At the end of the day we don't have to watch. But since it's on the BBC we [i]do[/i] have to pay for it. They could easily have put together a genuinely interesting piece and taken a reasoned approach as they do with most of their documentaries - or at least the ones I watch, I must admit I don't watch a lot of TV. Instead they thought it better to represent cyclists as a bunch of militant-vigilantes. Sure, some of them seemed like nice blokes, but add in a little bitterness and people quickly choose their sides. There was no mediation.

The whole thing was confrontational.

Fair enough Binners.

Another thing that annoyed me - throughout the programme drivers were speculating "look at that cyclist wobbling, they're bound to cause an accident" etc - as if speculation is evidence.

They also failed to make the fundamental point that the cyclist will always come off worse ina collision.

I think a presumption of guilt on the driver is the way ahead.

EDIT and those creating cycle lanes that conflict with AIM/HC advice (in that they are too narrow) are to blame.

Aye the 2 folk on Today actually did a half decent job - especially the cyclist (MArtin Hutcheson?)

Michael Hutchinson, apparently, a cycling journo. Bit of a relief - wouldn't want people thinking I was being reasonable on the radio.

You guys are just Trolling now, its so obvious he is looking for trouble David Blunkett could see it.

martinhutch - Member

Aye the 2 folk on Today actually did a half decent job - especially the cyclist (MArtin Hutcheson?)

Michael Hutchinson, apparently, a cycling journo. Bit of a relief - wouldn't want people thinking I was being reasonable on the radio.

What's the timing on the radio piece?

Yoiu would know a troll steve as your pleasant way opf presenting yor view amply demonstrates

i think you should mark hwk in this style 😉

Woppit - I thought it was in the last 5m - I'll check.

stevewhyte - why polarise the argument and ridicule me? Doesn't show you in the best light, mate.

D0NK - Member

just meekly accepting it coz the other boy is bigger than you is 100% guaranteed to fail.

^This^

Around 2hrs 42mins in.

its so obvious he is looking for trouble David Blunkett could see it.

Nope sorry. I've watched quite a few CycleGaz vids and I don't think he "looks for trouble" at all - he just challenges it when it happens. Generally he seems to ride very sensibly (he has posted some very dull videos to illustrate this but obviously no one watches them) e.g.

I'd agree some of the other YouTubers are fairly full on (magnatom, cyclingmikey) but even then I don't think they actively look for trouble - they are just a lot more verbal than most when it happens.

Im not polorising the argument and to be honest you are the one calling people morons are you not?

from my point if you realise that people in cars are going to do stupid things then you will probably likve longer.

If you go out deliberatly looking for trouble then you are going to find it, clearly Gaz was looking for trouble. I am in no way saying that the drivers were not at fault but he could easily have avoided most if not all of the situations. He delibriatly tried to noise up the taxi driver he even said so on his film.

The point was well made by the woman who lost her daughter, and reiterated by the woman on the Today programme.

It's a competative space on the roads, it should be a cooperative space.

I've watched quite a few CycleGaz vids and I don't hink he "looks for trouble" at all - [b]he just challenges it when it happens.[/b]

Yep. From some of his clips I've seen his cycling in general is impeccable. His only crime is not backing down when it happens.

CycleGaz is a saint compared to another guy whose video they used. The full version improves the context.

And this is a pearler...

(Warning - contains sweary content...)

I think a presumption of guilt on the driver is the way ahead.