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No worse than drivers with their stereo on bangIng out toons. I wear headphones and can still hear traffic around me.
What utter pish.
The look on the red light jumpers face when the big fella gripped his shoulder was priceless. Wearing headphones in traffic is moronic.
What utter pish.
Good debate reply there. 😉 🙄
I'll raise your utter pish to, you have no idea at what volume I play my music at. Cant hang about I have an appointment with certain death <pops ear phones in> tell my wife I love her.
Cant hang about I have an appointment with certain death <pops ear phones in> tell my wife I love her
Is she fit ?
[b]legend[/b] - I'm following this on a car forum too, they seem to agree - minus a bit of a moan about flashing lights
Clio drivers loave a good moan.
" way more pleasant than riding on rural A roads." You obviously missed a memo all rural roads have been reclassified as motor skills test tracks so drivers can enjoy driving to their or their cars limits.
My hero. [i]Swoons[/i]
What utter pish.
Springsteen for me this morning for some reason. Not looking behind you when changing road position or being aware of your surroundings is what is dangerous, not a bit of background music. Deaf people cycle too and motorcyclists can hear nothing.
How can you possibly watch that show and think headphones are in any way significant?
motorcyclists can hear nothing.
I must have bat like ears then
doesn't matter if they drive a car/taxi/truck or ride a bike
I am getting a bit tired of this attitude, cyclists are more vulnerable road users, it's like taking a knife to a gunfight then finding out everyone else has apache gunships.
I never said they weren't the most vulnerable, I'm talking about attitudes, T**ts act like t**ts because that's what they are not what they ride.
Bike DOES NOT give you the right to be a T**T
Copper advises buying a whistle!
If we all get whistles London is going to sound like 24 hour 80s rave!!
All we need now are industrial quantities of glowsticks!
And, if we all have whistles, how are we going to know which one is a copper wanting us to stop?
motorcyclists can hear nothing.
Utter rubbish 🙂 but your point is sound.
As a motorcyclist I actually wear earplugs for any journey over about 10 miles. You have to or you wreck your hearing. 2-up we have an intercom so we can talk to each other.
On the cycling in headphones thing it's really just about being sensible.. I wore them at 6.30am in Farnborough but there's not much traffic about and a lot of the route is traffic free or back roads. On the way home, different kettle of fish. More traffic and I preferred not to. You just have to assess the risk. But you CAN hear the traffic with them on, to say you can't it just dumb.
LOL @ Roger 😆
I can't believe some people seem to think the cyclist on the roundabout was somehow at fault for not stopping to let the lorry pull out on him. Staggering.Doing something just because it's 'right' doesn't instantly make it 'wise'
I maintain that stopping in the middle of a busy roundabout to let traffic that doesn't have right of way to pull onto it in front of you is far from wise.
If I was a motorist following a cycle round a roundabout, I wouldn't be expecting them to suddenly stop, and in fact I reckon there's a fair chance I would rear-end them if they did.
And creating an expectation in motorists (i.e. the truckie) that the normal rules of priority / right of way are reversed for bicycles creates much more, not less, danger for everyone.
cause it doesn't make a huge difference, what about car radios? are you going to ban them? what about deaf riders, you going to ban them too?Not much being said about cyclists wearing earphones got to be the daftest thing to do
Personally I usually don't wear headphones while commuting on the road (and I wear a helmet and a bit of hi viz) but don't see it as a crime if other riders choose different. The dude with the cans on did RLJ I think and maybe didn't look around much, criticise him for that but wearing headphones doesn't suddenly make you unable to ride
Ah, I knew this was a good thread to avoid. Typically, its now about STW rather than the TV programme of the title 🙄
What shocked me last night was the footage from that guys cement lorry. I couldn't believe the amount of cyclists squeezing up the tiny gap on the the inside of trucks and buses as they approached junctions. Absolute insanity IMHO!
Seriously... are you really in that much of a hurry that you can't just sit behind until it pulls away in front of you? At least give yourself a fighting chance of not getting squashed!
Oh... and I'd happily have decked Gareth the web developer. The smug, sanctimonious git
I had to stop watching that after a while, never thought I'd find a bloody Taxi driver, who I generally hate with a vengeance with more common sense than a biker. I have to say it made me realise what a bubble I dwell in, I hand't realised just how many more roadies there now are, if they are anything like the born again (motor)bikers of the late nineties and early noughties then it is hardly surprising there is this increased level of intolerance of one another from a road commuters perspective.
And as for Plod on a bike, Geez doesn't it just make you hate them even more..
Sadly it also goes to explain what has happened here during the period from before when the place crashed and now, just so many more who cycle but seem to no longer have either that 'savvy' or sense of commonality that we as a minority group used to have back a while ago.
A sad programme and scary reflection of just how crowded and dangerous our roads are and how little awareness of their own mortality some riders appear to have.
I couldn't believe the amount of cyclists squeezing up the tiny gap on the the inside of trucks and buses as they approached junctions. Absolute insanity IMHO!
Me too, I really can't believe anyone would do that
I used to commute by car to the tune of approx 150 miles per day. when I started I was really uptight about being on time etc, and frankly drove like an utter cock. About 3 months in I had a bit of an epiphany and realised that unless I modified my behaviour I would end up dead either by car or by heart attack. One of the things I did was to amuse myself by trying to drive without using my brakes unnecessarily. timing my run up to traffic lights/junctions etc allowing the vehicle to slow by taking my foot off the gas etc etc. Curiously about the same time I started to suffer less sinlge finger salutes and road rage style cut ins across my line of travel and so forth.
IMHO: You can excaerbate situations and you can mollify them by pretty simple actions. Generally speaking the show focussed on folk who seemed intent on exacerbation. The bottom line is we live on a crowded planet, and there are no simple solutions other than a bit of courtesy and consideration in both directions. Obviously townplanners taking their head out of theor arses wouldn't go amiss either, but hey its the real world.
[quote=DezB ]Ah, I knew this was a good thread to avoid. Apparently not.
amuse myself by trying to drive without using my brakes unnecessarily
I used to find a spot on my windscreen and use it as a crosshair of my imaginary gun (complete with noises). Strangely cathartic.
Thought the lorry driver was hyper aware of cyclists, but then it did show he had gizmos to let him know when he had riders alongside. He was very good and had all the gear and I can see how a driver in a lesser lorry who didn't have the improved mirrors and maybe less urban experience may kill a cyclist coming up his inside whilst he turns left.
Well done to the lady who lost her daughter, she was so broken by it. Sad to watch. Her approach to the company and how she went about getting them to implement changes to their fleet and subsequently the companys actions were commendable. Outside of that individual case though, is it financially viable to kit out lorries in that way? They said that on average their fleet killed 1 cyclist a year, how much does it cost to kill a cyclist? Is it a reasonable 'business'(not moral) decision to invest in preventative measures for these type of companies?
On another point...how **** are some peoples brakes!?! From watching the incident with the lorry, I think he could have reacted to the lorry quicker and stopped before he was that close to the tail. Not saying give r.o.w. as a matter of course but do react to the situation. Guy who rear ended the lady on the cycle path, again I reckon I could have stopped. etcetc (MOTs for bikes?? *ducks*)
[quote=mechmonkey ]how much does it cost to kill a cyclist?
I wish I knew. I might be able to afford a couple.
cause it doesn't make a huge difference, what about car radios? are you going to ban them? what about deaf riders, you going to ban them too?
That's a good point: I wonder how many "near misses" are the result of people fiddling with the radio, or listening too intently and not concentrating on what is happening around them. I would suggest that maybe more than you think. This may also be accentuated by the fact that modern cars are far more insulated against sound, making it harder to be aware of what is going on around you.
Deaf people: I have heard they tend to have heightened awareness through their other senses, and therefore are probably more sensitive to what is going on around them than most other people with all senses working perfectly.
[quote=mechmonkey ]
On another point...how **** are some peoples brakes!?! From watching the incident with the lorry, I think he could have reacted to the lorry quicker and stopped before he was that close to the tail. Not saying give r.o.w. as a matter of course but do react to the situation. Guy who rear ended the lady on the cycle path, again I reckon I could have stopped. etcetc
You've got to be a bit careful trying to measure speed and distance using the out put from a headcam. It's likely the obstacles were much nearer than they looked on video.
[quote=mikey74 ]
Deaf people: I have heard they tend to have heightened awareness through their other senses, and therefore are probably more sensitive to what is going on around them than most other people with all senses working perfectly.
Old wives tales.
You've got to be a bit careful trying to measure speed and distance using the out put from a headcam. It's likely the obstacles were much nearer than they looked on video
Granted. Just had my finger on the brakes and felt I could have pulled up a little earlier. Appreciate speed and distance are not so easy to see properly through the cam.
Having spent a year working as a cycle courier, five years as a motorcycle courier and twenty years as a black cab driver, the conclusion I've come to, can be summed up in one word...tolerance. It doesn't cost anything, and we all have it waiting inside of us.
I did over 10 years cycle and motorbike commuting in London. When I started out on the bike I rode hard and came across all the types of incidents in the programme on a daily basis. When I made a conscious decision to be a smoother rider, look ahead further and weave in traffic less, surprise surprise the number of incidents dropped and I wasn't actually travelling much slower overall. Rather than confront dangerous drivers it is far better to stay as far away as possible. You obviously can't avoid all issues with drivers on the road but a change in mind set to ' it dosnt matter if its my r.o.w. I will ride defensively as required' makes a world of difference.
It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be but it was a missed opportunity as the main message they wanted to get across seemed to be that both cyclists and drivers can be numpties. Yeah, we know that, tell us something constructive and new. I was surprised at how little road craft the majority of cyclists shown seemed to have.
The documentary didn't really attempt to deal with the main issues facing road users; namely an over stretched and over capacity road network, poor driving standards (on all sides of the argument) and a lack of will both politically and legally to make motorists more accountable for accidents they cause. Until drivers start being given stiffer penalties for hitting pedestrians and cyclists it is hard to see how things will change much. I cannot for example believe that the daughter of that poor woman had her death recorded as accidental; she was killed by a careless driver and careless driving is an offence. Similarly cyclists need to be penalised for breaking traffic laws. We can't have it all our own way.
I thought it was a really good program, showed both sides of the story.
At the end of the day if that program makes drivers and cyclist think a little more then that has to be good.
Also, all the comments about how cycling in London is so dangerous and they would never do it, it really isn't that bad. Don't ride like a dick, obey the rules, pay 100% attention all the time and you'll be fine.
Not much being said about cyclists wearing earphones got to be the daftest thing to do
I think this is true as it's harder for cyclists to see what's going on around them compared to cars - and more likely for something following you to cause a problem. I reckon being able to hear clearly saved me from a nasty squishing one time in London. I was approaching a dog leg in the road and heard something approaching fast from behind. I didn't like the idea of anyone passing me on this dog leg so slammed on my brakes and watched a white van pass me at speed and truncate the corner - just where I would have been.
Also, all the comments about how cycling in London is so dangerous and they would never do it, it really isn't that bad. Don't ride like a dick, obey the rules, pay 100% attention all the time and you'll be fine.
I pretty much agree
In most of the incidents that the programme showed, I don't think I would have put myself in a position for them to happen in the first place. Whether or not I had the right to put myself in such a position is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned.
I don't ride in London but I also don't find myself in the dangerous situations that some folks seem to think are the norm, I can only put it down to deferring to things that are likely to kill me or seriously hurt me, rather than competing with them.
Good programme in the end, we all know that there are idiots on both sides of the divide, it just seems that generally motorists are more likely to resort to violence 🙁 .
I do think that they made far more of the red light jumping than was necessary, having commuted around London by bike for the 8 years you soon realise that everyone red light jumps, cars, taxis, buses, cyclists and pedestrians also ignore crossings, fortunately i've never been knocked off by a vehicle but i have had two pedestrians run straight out into the road and hit me side on, luckily on both occasions there were no injuries to either of us.
Great programe well balanced except for GARETH,who should come with a warning printed on his forehead.
CYCLIST WITH CAMERA.
also some good deals on cameras on www.7dayshop.com , nice christmas gift, if anyone wants to buy me another one.
Some situations like cars pulling out on junctions and roundabouts and hard to predict, so you just have to assume it will happen and slow down, look at the driver and make sure you are as viable as possible ie: not riding in the gutter.
Have to admit this morning I was feeling in a good mood whilst cycling into work, cars were giving me a wide berth, a taxi driver apologised for having his door open as I rode past, all was going well.
The lights go green at a set of lights, Cars and met all set off just as a pedestrian tries to walk across. I then get met with "You're lucky I didn't knock you off your f**cking bike" Have to say that probably that most problems I see are pedestrians just not looking when they cross the road!
Alf (? Age 77) talked a lot of sense as does the mother who tragically lost her daughter.
Alf (? Age 77) talked a lot of sense as does the mother who tragically lost her daughter.
The taxi driver had lost his grandson in a cycling accident too 🙁
In most of the incidents that the programme showed, I don't think I would have put myself in a position for them to happen in the first place
Absolutely! Self-preservation clearly wasn't high on some peoples agenda's, the way they were riding. A lot of it just common sense.
Red Light Jumping for example. Sneaking a cheeky left turn at a quiet-ish junction is one thing, but just riding straight across a busy junction on red! Or in one case they showed, turning right across 2 lanes of traffic! 😯
[edit] link removed.
🙁
The road network is completely wrong- 50 years of designing primarily for the car wont provide a decent facility for cyclists in just a few years just by a few random white lines or bits of red tarmac.
what like going around a roundabout? (2 incidences on the programme)I can only put it down to deferring to things that are likely to kill me or seriously hurt me, rather than competing with them
plenty of situations where there's no competitive stuff going on, just riding along and another road user does something mind numbingly stupid and nearly kills you.
programme did show some bad riding. They missed an opportunity, when Gaz was talking about riding primary the should have explained what it is to the public instead of just showing hwat happens (sometimes) when you do it. The lady who bought shares in the truck company was inspiring. Still not getting why some people think Gaz was a cock. I agree he said a couple of cringeworthy lines but he didn't seem that bad.