Cleaning a plastic peanut butter container is really time consuming, and also uses a lot of detergent and hot water. So im not sure it’s a good balance overall, in recycling/conserving etc etc.
Does anyone have a secret to making it easier to end up with a clean jar to put in the recycle? Currently, im not sure that it’s worth while recycling, with all the cleaning required.
How clean does it need to be? I scrape them out with a silicone spatula and there's practically nothing left.
So, that’s a good point, which leads to another connected, but separate question. How clean do things need to be to be out into the recycling? I was under the impression they needed to really be quite clean. But I honestly don’t know whether cleanliness is crucial in the recycling process?
But I honestly don’t know whether cleanliness is crucial in the recycling process?
Not sure myself but clean does make it a far nicer environment to work in I'm sure.
OP - leave peanut butter jars to soak, much easier to clean then.
We don't bother with recycling them, even the glass ones, have taken the view that there's more energy (ie gas to heat water) required to clean them out than it'll take to melt and recycle the glass. That's based on absolutely zero science whatsoever, it just feels likely. Most other glass stuff washes out much more easily. All that said, I don't lose any sleep over it, as we only get through 2 or 3 a year at most
What is a "dirty peanut butter jar" ?
If there are bits she can reach though.
Get a chainmail cast iron scourer. Dose of hot soapy water, lob in the chainmail and shoogle and spin it.
Job jobbed.
we only get through 2 or 3 a year at most
I reckon we are on 2 a month.
Off to look at silicone spatulas. . .
Actually we have a couple of "tight arse spoon/spatulas"
Think a chopstick with a silicone 1/4 teaspoon on one end and a tiny spatula to other end. They reach everywhere including the shoulders of most jars.
For me, it's scrape out as much as possible, then into the dishwasher, glass/plastic no extra energy used
These days, I struggle to get through a 1Kg tub a year, but I used to polish off several and stay around 80Kg due to the volume of riding I used to do.
We must easily have 5+ old tubs that got cleaned and get used for storing stuff in, like sugar. Sometimes I'll even use them as an alternative bowl, if we're running short on proper bowls!
Possibly helps that my peanut butter tubs were palm oil free, only nuts, so often towards the end the remaining butter was quite dry and easy to get with a knife or a spoon. Not much left in tub to clean it.
That's good stuff^
That mutt up there tanned half a tub once, found her in her bed with an empty tub and a fat belly.
Our 3 come running when it gets opened, as if the cheese tax isn't enough. Think they must be related to Rachel Reeves
We don't bother with recycling them, even the glass ones, have taken the view that there's more energy (ie gas to heat water) required to clean them out than it'll take to melt and recycle the glass.
Seriously? Glass used to be collected to be recycled or cleaned and reused when I was a kid, that’s over 60 years ago! We used to scour the neighbourhood looking for empty bottles because we got money back on them, something that should be re-introduced and enforced. Everything plastic and glass I recycle, if there’s any food traces, which is usually very little, that gets washed off when I do the washing up, then it all goes into the appropriate bins. Plastic foils, like crisp packaging, goes into a large plastic bag, then taken to the local supermarkets who collect it.
We don't bother with recycling them, even the glass ones, have taken the view that there's more energy (ie gas to heat water) required to clean them out than it'll take to melt and recycle the glass. That's based on absolutely zero science whatsoever, it just feels likely. Most other glass stuff washes out much more easily. All that said, I don't lose any sleep over it, as we only get through 2 or 3 a year at most
Think about it...
So you chuck the glass away because of the energy washing it must be less than melting it.
So you think a replacement from raw materials just pops into existance? That involves extracting raw materials, cleaning them, sorting them, processing them, transporting them before you melt them into glass and make a jar.
Reduce
Reuse
Recycle
Always.
Re "how clean" the guidance we used to discuss with clients for waste management stategies.
"Not visible dirty"
"Not greasy"
Rinse is fine for most stuff.
greasy stuff should be fine using the last of the dishwater or chucked in the dishwasher which is already going to be used anyway.
So, that’s a good point, which leads to another connected, but separate question. How clean do things need to be to be out into the recycling? I was under the impression they needed to really be quite clean. But I honestly don’t know whether cleanliness is crucial in the recycling process?
where I live they don’t even need to be cleaned. Just empty.
@CountZero: Hmmm. Unless I saw the numbers, my feeling is that @thelawman might have hit it on the head. I suspect that it’s false thinking that recycling these plastic tubs is worthwhile -IF they require extensive cleaning (needing lots of heated water and detergents).
But I have no facts behind this, which is why I posted the question.
Just the clear things up.
A kg of polypropylene produced from virgin material is abou 3kg co2 (rounded that down for conservative comparison)
Assuming good recycling conditions* in the uk polypropylene is about 1.1kg co2 (lets round that up for conservative estimate to 1.5)
A modern dishwasher cycle is about 4 to 600 grams co2 per cycle. Thats for the whole lot remember) hand washing a bit less (for a single bowl though so quite alot worse than a full dishwasher) so lets be really uncharitable and say you only washed the tub in an empty dishwasher on the hottest setting or you used an entire bowl of hot water.
the logic that recycling isn't worth it os very very flawed. Or ots being used as an excuse ro not bother.
Just fit it in when you are doing the washing you need to do or use it for something else. It sounds like CountZero has the right idea.
* Ie the material is largely clean AND compressed because volume means more trips.
Interesting figures there chaps, thanks. It sounds like there isn't a concensus (on STW? Fancy that) but probably worth cleaning them up a bit and recycling on the whole. As i say, this household only gets through a small amount of peanut butter, and practically all other packaging goes into the recycling. Don't bother with the lightweight cellophane, plastic or foil coated bags, granted. It'd need yet another container in the garage.
Anyway, just for giggles, shall we now add the concept and effect of fats, oils and grease in the waste water system into the mix, ie 'fatbergs' 🤣
Yeah stuff like that I just scrape as much out with a silicone spatula or whatever, if it's particularly greasy then wipe out any remnants with a piece of kitchen roll, then recycling bottom of the list getting washed up in the sink.
Anyway, just for giggles, shall we now add the concept and effect of fats, oils and grease in the waste water system into the mix, ie 'fatbergs' 🤣
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wtf you guys have to clean things before putting them in the recycling bin? What happens if your neighbour forgets?
wtf you guys have to clean things before putting them in the recycling bin? What happens if your neighbour forgets?
If most people do it (and really most stuff is no more than a rinse) then in theory the contamination shouldn't be a massive deal.
If no one does it then it becomes increasingly problematic, its become more carbon costly, it can cause maintenance issues* in the MRFs and it could cause mayerial to be rejected and diverted to landfill.
* Thats why glass is kept seperate because broken glass and particularly particles can trash the plant it gets everywhere and abrades everything.
Dog is the best answer but check it doesn't contain Xylitol as a sweetener. Very toxic to dogs
Failing that, fill with warm water tiny squirt if fairy and let it soak. 24 hrs later it will pretty much rinse out.
We clean our recycling more than is necessary but that's because I don't want my bin to stink in the summer.
So my dilemma, I'm not a peanut butter fan, the missus and two boys are.
The whole earth glass jars are on offer at 66p per 100g but a pain to clean out and there's always some left. The big plastic tub is at 71p per 100g.
Now I feel glass is better than plastic but the slight monetary saving is attractive.
The frustration is the old folks over the road frequently have their recycling bin left as they contaminate it with all sorts
If I have glass jars to wash, I wait until I'm washing non waste items and use the "leftover" water to wash/rinse recycling items.
But glad is going to be melted down anyways so a bit of peanut butter isn't going to make any difference.
So my dilemma, I'm not a peanut butter fan, the missus and two boys are.
...
the slight monetary saving is attractive.
If you're paying for it and someone else is eating it, there's a cheaper solution to be had.
Surely if the glass is going in the bottle bank then it doesn't need to be hygienically clean, just clean enough as it's all going through a furnace to be re-used.
Actually we have a couple of "tight arse spoon/spatulas"
Think a chopstick with a silicone 1/4 teaspoon on one end and a tiny spatula to other end. They reach everywhere including the shoulders of most jars.
But not as well as fingers do! It’s what they were designed for, dammit! That’s half the fun, scraping out the last little bits with a finger, although, to be fair, the bottom corners are difficult to reach, that’s where a small spatula comes in.
So my dilemma, I'm not a peanut butter fan, the missus and two boys are.
...
the slight monetary saving is attractive.
If you're paying for it and someone else is eating it, there's a cheaper solution to be had.
Now I may be daft, but I'm not stupid. to deviate away from what is accepted and eaten would result in more agro and tears at snack time.
Leave to soak for a bit. Empty half out. Lid on. Shame vigorously.
Fill with warm water (ideally washing up water when you're done with it, drained off pasta, or the bit left in the kettle). Repeat shaking bit as necessary.
So, what about the label ?
Its probably a good odea at this point whether we are talking about glass or mixed recyclables.
The reason they are seperate pretty stricttly is broken glass and glass particles get every where and place massive maintenance load on bearing and conveyors in MRF. Its also inert and the processing is extremely high heat like to the point everything thats not glass is going to get burned off. Metal lids etc should not be present though.
Other recycling should be stripped as best as possible but the sorting proceses are pretty good, i think the shred it then everything is largely sperate pieces by then.
Again its about "mostly" processes that can deal with worse condition waste generally are more expensive and the output will be lower quality.
And that maybe another point to note, you don't just get "polypropylene" out. You get bales of material for recycling. Then its processed and you get pellets or possibly other stock products like bars or slabs etc (no odea). And that has a grade. The grade defines the value the better the grade the less virgin material os needed to make new products.
So all the way along the chain you want the highest value (or have more of your council tax be spent on this stuff).
In summary, of you want the best buck for the council (which you should)
Don't increase the cost of maintenance and operation
Keep the value as high as possible so they make more back.
Imagine inventing a timemachine and travelling back in time to meet your childhood self to tell them about the future. Non of the science fiction of our past prepared us for a future where we'd be washing our rubbish before we throw it away :-).
I know. But honestly i have designed landfill, over seen construction of landfill and sample the leachate. Standing at the base of a 20meter high mountain of stinking rubbish nothing all the recycling stuff that shouldn't be there... You realise its not that much effort.
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I wonder what those guys breaking up fat bergs in the sewers get paid....?
I'm guessing not enough!
Even jars in Germany have a deposit on them like both glass and plastic bottles. Jars, 25¢, plastic and larger bottles 25¢ and standard beer bottle 8¢.
the logic that recycling isn't worth it os very very flawed. Or ots being used as an excuse ro not bother.
Thanks for the info - that's interesting to know. But .. the hot water is paid for by me, whereas the plastic tub making is paid for by someone else:-)
whereas the plastic tub making is paid for by someone else:-)
I'm hoping that was tongue in cheek as the packaging is part of the cost of the product. (Unless you're going in to refill from a bulk container).
Whenever I ponder the question of whether my recycling will be clean enough, in my mind I always see an image of Arnie in Terminator T2 as he gets lowered into the melting pot of molten metal.
And that always makes me think, yes it probably won't matter too much if it isn't.
And I like to think my empty tins give a little thumbs up as they disappear into oblivion.
I'm hoping that was tongue in cheek as the packaging is part of the cost of the product.
Sort of tongue in cheek and sort of not, as there's a bit of "tragedy of the commons" effect, whereby everyone thinks they can leave their tub full of peanut butter and screw up the recycling for those who religiously rinse them out. So am I getting value for money for my hot water?
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Even jars in Germany have a deposit on them like both glass and plastic bottles. Jars, 25¢, plastic and larger bottles 25¢ and standard beer bottle 8¢.
We have refundable deposits on drinks containers in Queensland - and a variety of ways to collect the refund. I've a local centre where you put them individually on a conveyor belt and the system counts them then you go to an ATM-type thing which spits out cash. It's quite fun... and seeing the people that arrive with epic amounts of whisky bottles and beer cans make me feel good about my own consumption.
So am I getting value for money for my hot water?
Yes, the fact we get clean fresh drinking water that is consistently safe, pretty much limitless delivered to our tap is exceptional. Its a massive guarantee against dying young fro horrendous diseases. You'd sure as shit notice if it stopped.
Speaking of shit whats absolutely nuts is we shit in 30 percent of that water and flush it away. And 20percent never makes ot anywhere other than the ground as "acceptable leakage"
As for heating it. Again a consistent power or gas supply os pretty hard to argue is anything other than good value. Not cheap though.
The main issue is people are lazy - remember Napster? That doesn't really exist anymore because the record companies got their act together & now we have Spotify. Apply the same argument to recycling & kerbside collections - tetrapaks - can be recycled, but mostly aren't because they aren't collected. I don't want to make a special trip to the dump to recycle them.
The same with batteries & small electrical items so it's easy to chuck em in the bin. If everything was collected kerbside in one bin & sorted post collection I can guarantee recycling rates would go up. Yes sorting & cleaning would be painful & expensive, so we rely on people not being lazy which doesn't really work.
Tetrapaks are easy.
Do Not Buy Things In Tetrapaks. Recycleabledoesn't necessarily mean its the right choice.
Batteries are easy, drop them off at any supermarket along with plastic bags.
Small electronics are not easy.
I don't disagree with you but what you are describing requires a dirty mixed recycling facility (Dirty Murf). Its not a new concept but they are alot more problematic, the case for using them to claw back more recycling is reduced by the fact the typically provide alot less value.
Currently (or atleast last time i was invloved) most councils view current mixed clean recycling as considerably more cost effective and it probably is the right call.
Sending stuff to landfill os phenomenally expensive. The tax alone is 130quid a tonne.
@joshvegas Just spotted something in one of your posts from a couple of days ago
Metal lids etc should not be present though.
How does that work with the metal 'collars' that many glass wine bottles have on them? The ones that the screwlid originally coupled to. Is it that they're mostly aluminium so they just flash off in the heat of the eventual melt?
Metal lids etc should not be present though.
Whoops - we always put the lids back on the jars when we send them to recycling.
... what you are describing requires a dirty mixed recycling facility (Dirty Murf). Its not a new concept but they are alot more problematic, the case for using them to claw back more recycling is reduced by the fact the typically provide alot less value.
That must be what we have. Everything goes in one wheely bin - empty but not cleaned. Any other option here I think would lead to people just not bothering. Especially as where we live a lot of people have a trip to get their bins to the road (ours is 350m and hilly) and more rural people won't even get a collection service, so they'll have to take it to the refuse centre themselves.
@joshvegas Just spotted something in one of your posts from a couple of days ago
Metal lids etc should not be present though.
How does that work with the metal 'collars' that many glass wine bottles have on them? The ones that the screwlid originally coupled to. Is it that they're mostly aluminium so they just flash off in the heat of the eventual melt?
Glass is pretty special its inert and homogenous* so doesn't really get affected by contaminants in the same way plastics and paper can. the good thing about it is it can be crushed so likely it will be separated quite easily... The metal will stay large. magnets and air jets will seperate the lids there are likely pickers aswell watching over things and hoiking any rogue bits out. But stuff that does get through will have some sort of effect on the process at best its just wasted energy melting non glass mass and binning it as slag.On top of that The separated metal will be recycled* but its had a long trip** to get there, best to just recycle it the first time. Although its a mystery to me why there isn't a metal bin for lids next the glass bins.It might all sound a bit daft for a wee lid but the numbers are huge. Something like 750000tonnes of glass are recycled each year. Let's say 5% of that is metal (jam jar lids are about 10% of the glass portion, bottle lids almost negligible) that 37500 tonnes of metal that can be recycled and should be diverted at the earliest point.Waste is really complex stuff, and one of the hence the above points*Its a disgrace we don't really have reuse schemes anymore, its a product that can literally be boiled clean and reused forever and we recycle it to make more glass that can literally be boiled clean and reused forever. Currently the only scheme i am aware of its the rise of the classic milk bottle.** Waste management licences should in theory prevent bad practice, the metal separated is still a waste, its audited its costly to not recycle it.Transportation plays a big part in all this, certain products can only be processed in specific plants run by companies lime viridor and biffa. Road transportation can make significant impacts on the viability of region by region. One of the reasons that there is so much variability about what is recycled although thats probably more to do with low values for end products. The other option is to burn it*.**** Energy from waste is weird. The more we recycle the less high calorific content (paper, plastics and food) there os to burn. There is atleast one plant in Fif le that since being built has had to buy waste to generate energy. Similarly landfill gasses have been used to generate electricity and quite alot of revenue but as we have got much better about food waste, that largest methane producer in the waste that becomes less viable.This is all from memory from over 10 years ago. The only thing i have checked is current recycling numbers.
Red text wasn't intentional i guess is * * *
What to do with tomato puree tubes?
Suffolk council (I don't live there btw) has some great advice:
'Cut the bottoms and open flat to remove residue'
I don't mind giving things a wash in the dregs of the washing up water but sod that.
Yogurt pots - nearest recycling facility is a 25 mile drive !!
I am quite surprised that yoghurt pots aren't recycled in your domestic recycling.
Puree tubes... I am inclined to agree with you*. However, through an emergency toothpaste situation i cut open a tube to get one final use, i got about three days out of it! So i would say there is probably a spagbols worth of puree in the tube so it might be worth cutting it open for that!
*I know it might read like i a fanatic but i am a firm believer in everything just doing what they can than 1 person going all out hyperrecycler.
so is someone actaully checking each thing so see if its clean enough? Cos theres no way that everyone is behaving. I'd assumed that would be too expensive and that it'd be easier to put all the things through some kind of cleaning process first
I am quite surprised that yoghurt pots aren't recycled in your domestic recycling.
I was surprised myself and I’m sure most people aren’t aware of it. But we don’t even have a glass bin, so anything’s possible.
so is someone actaully checking each thing so see if its clean enough? Cos theres no way that everyone is behaving. I'd assumed that would be too expensive and that it'd be easier to put all the things through some kind of cleaning process first
I am really stretching my memory her. Yes, there a pickers who stand and can pick out stuff that very wrong while they sort. Its not a pleasant job. They don't check everything they just generally pick out stuff that an issue where they see it there are also robot pickers helping with the sorting, they can fish out hazardous items for dealing with desperately but i imagine dirty is quite in their lexicon yet.
Again this is all about general improvement. Stuff does get cleaned but it gets cleaned before processing so the sorted waste don't want a manky load of plastic to clean prior to processing or they will want to pay alot less.
Again clean is normally just a rinse. If its clean enough to not stink in your kitchen bin it will likely be absolutely fine.
The reason they are seperate pretty stricttly is broken glass and glass particles get every where and place massive maintenance load on bearing and conveyors in MRF. Its also inert and the processing is extremely high heat like to the point everything thats not glass is going to get burned off. Metal lids etc should not be present though.
In our MRF everything gets lumped in together and the very first thing that gets done is that it gets ****ted with a massive metal hammer thing to smash all the glass, then that falls through the gaps in the conveyor. It's one of our regular beavers/cubs trips!
our glass recycling says leave the lids on, says it on the bin.
They also say dont bother washing any of the recycling for our benefit. (obviously, go for it if your bin will stink)
Different authorities have different processes and requirements.
Last i heard, Exeters process results in top grade recyclable material which then fetches a good price at auction where it is bought by recycled material firms. i think they do a fair amount of hand picking.