[Closed] 'Potential burglars' threatening behavior, where do I stand?

Not a nice experience. If it is their car, (& their sensitivity suggests it is) I imagine the fact that you know their number should put them off. I doubt they will be back.

CCTV and shotgun mines 8)

...I imagine the fact that you know their number should put them off. I doubt they will be back.

For a while, at least...

I'd be concerned. They could be up to anything really, but maybe time for CCTV, or a big dog?

I'm inclined to agree with imnotverygood.

I know this probably won't be much comfort, but they are probably just looking for stuff left hanging around, easy pickings.

Well within your rights to note their details and well within your rights to tell them to leave.

Chill out fella, you did it right.

Lock your gates and call 999 should you have any concerns overnight.

Definitely sound dodgy. But Burglary is like being chased by a lion, you don't need to run faster than the lion, just faster than the slowest person being chased 🙁 By challenging them as you have, as INVG says you have probably prompted them to look for easier pickings. Well done. Sounds like you handled it well.

Every right to photograph them in a public place or on your property. They have no 'reasonable expectation of privacy.' Hopefully by confronting them they will move on to easier marks* Kudos for the guts to confront strangers, many wouldn't have. Did you give the number to the police? At the very least, they should run it through the PCN.

*That is, if they are of nefarious intent, rather than just weirdos.

You're on your own land.I'd have been carrying an axe ,a chainsaw or a shotgun if I owned one,never mind a camera! You were far too civilised but sensible.

Know anyone with a Belgian Sheppard/ any other menacing hound? Offer to look after it for a couple of days.

Take to walking aforementioned path with dog, shotgun and half empty bottle of whisky. Anyone you meet will give you a wide berth...and not come back soon.

As for photographing his property you can do as you please, the fact that you were both on your property is neither here nor there although it adds a certain moral high ground.

I would have thought (although I am not certain) that despite the open garden scheme they are trespassing on your property if they do not leave when asked to do so so you would be well within your rights to call the police.

From a practical point of view, can you lock the gates at dusk for a couple of weeks?

I'd be concerned. They could be up to anything really, but maybe time for CCTV, or a big dog?

I'd agree that you did the right thing.

Dog only needs to look the part, not phsyco batshit dribbling.

On second thoughts perhaps they'd seen the wood store thread and just couldn't believe it until they'd seen it with their own eyes.

Thanks for the support so far. I still feel pretty shaken.

I didn't want to escalate anything further at the time. I was on my own, I feared he could have been carrying a knife or similar.

They replied when asked the first time that they came from the local town. It's only a couple of miles away. There are two access roads to the house. One is past a lodge, the other a farm track that really only a 4x4 could navigate. That route also has to go through a farm yard.

We have security sensor operated lighting. Some CCTV sounds well worthwhile. The big dog route might be trickier with kids around.

The fact there's a girl and a child in the mix, and the fact that were caught twice and that there has been a confrontation would hopefully deter a future visit.

I'm curious why he was so anxious about his property being photographed, the car, and why he wasn't driving on any of the times we've seen it.

Car might not be his. Girl and child make for a more convincing story if they were casing the place.

You've done nothing wrong here for sure. I also tend to agree that now that they've been confronted the chances of them returning are pretty slim.

Op sounds like you have done what you can.

I don't know where you're based but there may be some agents who specialise in securing and monitoring property who can do you some temporary alarm systems or signage or patrols or smar****er etc. if you want to temporarily beef up security. We use these types of people at work if we have to secure vulnerable buildings.

Our local Neighbourhood Watch officer always advises us to ring them, no matter how trivial, if we think someone is lurking about without good reason. It may be nothing but it may be that other people have noted the same vehicle behaving suspiciously and they can build up a picture.

I'm curious why he was so anxious about his property being photographed, the car, and why he wasn't driving on any of the times we've seen it.

Unlicensed/uninsured and known by the rozzers?

Absolute right to take a photo . you have probably deterred them already but if it happens again call the police as or before you confront them give the car number to the operator.

I'm up for a stakeout Pete.

They are small time thieves. They've either visited before and seen something they fancy or they are chancing it.

The girl and the kid add plausibility to any story if they are challenged. For those that don't buy their story they'll be more vocal, expecially when there is a threat to their anonymity.

I don't think they will be back. However, if they do, I would suggest that any direct challenge would be unwise as a return means they've assessed the threat from you and will meet it. 999 without hesitation if they return or you even think they are.
If you are going to take them on, a) be 100% sure you will win. b) use only enough force as warrants winning otherwise you could be facing assault charges yourself.

Unless you've got something they really want, I don't think they'll risk any more trouble.

Rich.

When I revisit the Police station to give a statement. What happens then? Do they follow up the complaint, trace the car owner and interview them? In a way I would hope, as it would prove that my intention to call the Police wasn't an idle threat.

No, not a dog, unless it is following strict instructions (and therfore under control) to attack it will be considered out of control and under threat of being put down.
#Fact

I get round this by making a video every night before I go to bed, of me giving the dog strict instructions to attack and rip to shreds anything that moves (apart from baby robins and Child's faces)

Got it covered 😉

OP I would still mention it to local officers. It could add to their intelligence on a known offender(s) and their movemrnts and the car/owner could be linked or be on parole/bail conditions. IF they have malintent, I doubt(?) they could be first time offenders?

From what I see, you've got no offences so it's intel. for the police rather than something that would trigger a visit.
Policing has moved on from my day, but what used to happen was info. was submitted to the LIO (Local Intellegence Officer) who would then do the necessary checks and spread info out to the various stations etc.

Nowdays the info goes into a big computer and a pretty graph is produced to show the grown-ups what a good job of crime prevention is going on. This takes LOADS of manpower, rather than the one bloke we used to have who was so clued up he knew every bowel movement of each of the local scrotes. (Me, disillusioned?).

I think action will only happen if a) you're lucky enough to get an old school local officer who will take an interest or b) you dial 999 and an instant response is required.

Stuff like this isn't really a big deal to the police. It's paperwork and a use of resources for no gain for them so it's not going to rank highly on their priority list.

Rich.

I'd say your best course of action would be common sense stuff. Any valuable items locked away. Security lights where appropriate. Ensure the house is locked. Phone readily available to make a 999 call.

CCTV etc. is ok but my guess is that this is the first incident you've had in many years and it will probably be many years until you have another. Yes, it shakes you up but the reality is that it's not suddenly going to become a major problem.

Sensible precautions but by overreacting and making the place a fortress you're as much a victim of crime as if you'd actually been burgled.

Pete

Definitely call and speak to the local police.

You did the right thing - and the intimidation preventing the photo is a real thing and quite a natural reaction from a 'good guy' - diffusing it by not taking the photo was again the right thing.

Talk to the cops, pass on the reg and descriptions and that's probably as much as you can/could have done.

I've just let some of your neighbours know Mcmoonter, they're keeping an eye out as well now.
Seemingly there's been quite a few dodgy characters around your area lately.

I've just let some of your neighbours know Mcmoonter, they're keeping an eye out as well now.
Seemingly there's been quite a few dodgy characters around your area lately.

I'm just going to let Roddy and John know. I spoke to my immediate neighbours straight afterwards and will nip around the others ltomorrow.

I was in Fife this week, but I hope you won't class me as a dodgy character.... 😉

Hopefully this will be enough, most burglars are opportunists. To be challenged in the way you describe may well be enough. No faith in Police Scotland at the moment to coordinate properly, do keep at them.

EDIT @Moab you'd be first in line mate and I am trying to avoid reminding @mcmoonter that he lives in Fife and is full of "naerichters".

Lol it was Roddy I was just speaking to.
Matt I think we'll make an exception for you 😆 .

Bizarre stuff.

Hopefully your intervention has dissuaded them from revisiting. Sounds like they were scoping the place or looking for stuff to take there and then.

....I am trying to avoid reminding @mcmoonter that he lives in Fife and is full of "naerichters".

I feel perfectly at home here. 😀

+1 on the dog. Burglars are often petrified of the mk1 fido.

I've still got my Ghillie Suit, and a bit of time on my hands Fella..

Vans behaving like that iat night up to no good. I used to get hassle from ghill lies and polis in my van until they spoke to me and realised I was a kayaking biking national trust member. If it's innocent they'll complain. If not they know someone is around. Get a big searchlight.

Caltrops on the driveway?

So where do I stand?

At the top of the stairs, like Tony Martin should have 😀

Sounds like you handled it fairly well. Is it worth blocking vehicular access from the Farm track side?

Sounds like you should be ok now the neighbour's will be on the lookout, but I'm just down the road if you need 'assistance' . Time for some Rambo style booby traps around the grounds?

Similar scams going on down this way (galloway) with folk in vans driving around pretending to be lost and asking for directions when approached, they are just chancing their luck/casing an area to come back to by testing your response time so don't take any shit from them and stand your ground/let them know you are aware of them.

A couple of weeks ago a white van was caught on CCTV as it passed the front of my mates georgian house, it had to pass up his driveway which sounds innocuous till you realise that his driveway is clearly marked [i]private estate[/i] at the gated entrance off a very minor Galloway road and is 500 yards long up a red gravel driveway to the main house before turning up the hill another 500 yards to the farm buildings, two days later the same van, this time pulling a flat bed trailer passes through on the way up to the farm (4 quad bikes/ trials bikes, his rally cars, 2 mini excavators. compressors/umpteen tools etc in the farm buildings) but they didn't realise he was working on the drains that run down through the fields and across the farm roads, he had the circular route dug up along with his rather large Claas Scorpian Telehandler which held all the drainage pipe, Unfortunately as the van attempted to rapidly reverse down the lane the telehandler prongs accidently pierced the side and suspended the rear of the van in the air.

Not saying what happened to them but i can guarantee they'll not be back nor will they be trying anything similar on any other property in the area, folk like that deserve all that they get.

[b]rwamartin[/b] - From what I see, you've got no offences so it's intel.

mcmoonter - Member
So where do I stand?

Take your pump action short gun, chew some tobacco and spit in front of them red neck style while chambering a round and pointing the barrel at them then say "dead men don't talk" in heavy Merican accent and look at the woman then say "I sure want to smell your honey soft skin ... " then do the tongue licking the lips to the woman. 😈

(but make sure you have a sniper stand by while point a pump action at them you should also tell them a second barrel is also aiming at them ...)

Oh ... I forgot you not in Merica ... in that case report to the Police while keeping all your valuable safe. For the moment nothing much you can do other then sit, wait and be vigilant.

Take chewkw's advice! Except that last bit.

All sounds sensible to me. I'd let off a couple of rounds with the shotgun and leave the shells in the porch so they have a nice fresh smell.

Plastic lined room and access to a pig farm? Getting rid of the vehicle could be the difficult bit.

Don't be surprised if they were legit. My old dears open their garden 6 months of the year, all week, and they have people turning up all hours dispite huge 'closed' signs, and then trot out 'what signs?', 'but we've come a long way' etc. however, you can spot the dodgy ones ie 2 girls turning up wanting to look around for a potential wedding venue, but then trying the same trick later on in the season and the following year.

[quote=Scamper said]Don't be surprised if they were legit.

3 days on the trot, at dusk each time, hostile when challenged ? C'mon 😀

We used to have simlar issues when working gamekeeper, poachers, new age travelers, or just chancers.

You can use the.minimum force necessary to remove them from you property 99% of the time asking was all it took but we have used 12 blokes, 2 dogs and 3 4x4 tractors before now! Police were just there to make sure we did not kill them during the removal process. ****ing useless.

Put some private property sign up GOOD cctv WITH cctv warning signs and some noisy animals/ birds if you cannot have a dog, geese or guinea fowl are excellent guard animals btw

In fact I'd highly recommend the Guinea Fowl TBH we used to have about 12 in every pheasent pen and you could hear when something was about, fox or man for bloody miles on a still night lol 😀

Sounds oh so familiar.

Usual excuse around here for strange vans driving slow(a singletrack not through road leading to houses and a couple of farms) is " lost my dog mate looking for him" - " yeah well he isnt in my garage so keep moving "

Make it obvious im taking a photo as they drive off.

I work on the premise that just being spotted and noted keeps them away either that or i have nothing of interest in my shed of many things(and no dogs)

Keep stuff locked up and out of sight will help if they do get up to the house . Worth leaving your landy or something at the gate up by the house during hours of darkness when your not expecting anyone ?

Getting rid of the vehicle could be the difficult bit.

You forget who you are dealing with here.

[img] [/img]

Well for balance I turned up to view someone's garden about a month away from when it was open. They were part of a modern gardens open day, but weren't opening on the same day as everyone else and I didn't notice that detail in the literature. No signs, and they were sat outside having a cuppa when we rolled up the drive. Once I got over the embarrassment of being a numpty they did let us have a look round and were OK about the whole thing.

Though it wasn't dusk, and I wouldn't have kicked off if they asked me to leave, and I only did it once. So not the same at all then.

Oh and what was said above about gamies , they are great people to get to know , although when i first moved to drumtochty i used to get stopped and questioned in my van at night - and once you explained where you lived , and what the van was for they were happy and helpful.

Then when i got the landy - same process till they knew it was me.

They are only protecting their lively hood , and once they know you there looking out for you too .....

A quick update.

I went back to the Police station early this morning. I was interviewed by a very understanding Police officer. They took a statement. Checked the car details. They are going to visit the registered keeper today. Data protection limits what they could tell me.

The officer said they will come and visit me this afternoon to get an idea of the lay of the land just in case they should come back again. They are going to put the car details and anything else they know on their Intel machine.

My mother suggested that asking the scotes for the £3.50 entrance fee might equally be a valid deterrent. That's per scrote. It comes to the Parkinson's Society.

I feel a lot more reassured this

I've visited a couple of neighbours this morning to relay the number and the experience.

That there is good POlice (said in broad Baltimore Irish accent)

By the way - fishing line and cheap rape alarms off eBay are where it's at for perimeter defence at the moment, much cheaper and more distinctive sound than the shotgun shell alarm mines

We had a few visitors of similar suspicion along the South Loch Tay road - again police were good at keeping an eye out, especially when there were two entrances to the singletrack road 14 miles apart....they would just sit at dusk/evening and wait.....

An update update.

I left the Police station early this morning, I stopped off at couple of neighbours on the way home.

In that time the Police officers had visited my property and they had chased up the car's registered keeper.

Turns out it belonged to the scrote's father who wasn't best pleased at what use it was being put to. The scrote refused to disclose who the female driver was. He isn't duty bound to reveal her name.

He tried on the 'just out for a drive' line with the Police who were having none of it. He was told in no uncertain terms that if he returned there would be an escalation in our response and that of the Police.

The father's car now features on an intel database. The Police wouldn't disclose whether the scrote was known to them.

So within a few hours of the exchange the Police have landed on his doorstep. That's as much as anyone could hope for.

We will sleep a little easier tonight.

I think the fishing line rape alarm is a great idea. My better than my brother's plank with nails homemade stinger across the drive.

I visited all my remaining neighbours along the hill, so everyone will be a bit more vigilant about their security.

Blimey. I think all we could expect down here is varying degrees of indifference if the same thing happened!

this all goes to show just how stupid your average burglar is. He's casing a potential target so he goes 3 days running despite being seen, while it's still light enough to see him and take a reg plate, driving his old man's car and taking his missus along for the ride. I think it's safe to assume he's well known to your local coppers.

Hopefully that will be the end of it. However, the last 20 minutes of Skyfall give some excellent tips on home security.

Expensive though Harry. Sacrificial Aston, helicopter and Manor House.

Discourages repeat offending though.

As well as parking the Landie up at the house, maybe another car just outside the access road (maybe not anything too flash :). Might make the "passing by" harder to do.

But good on your local polis sounds like they're right on your case and almost ready for it?

Mate's farm outbuilding was ransacked the other month - definitely had been cased as it's not at all visible from main road, on the same night a disparate group of properties also raided..

I used to get upset - a bit - at being stopped by local farmers or landowners when out for a quite spin in or around their open grounds, but of late I've come to realise the suspicions the hold - not about me, obviously, but at random folk passing by, maybe more than once, sometimes at night..

Blimey, good work by the local rozzers.

[img] [/img]

Police were just there to make sure we did not kill them during the removal process. * useless.

No doubt * useless in terms of assisting you, but also abiding by what they can and can't lawfully do.

said I had no right to photograph his property

You cant take a picture of his car, but he can drive up and down your private drive? Pull the other one. Good to hear its all on record.

I think the fishing line rape alarm is a great idea. My better than my brother's plank with nails homemade stinger across the drive.

Get in trouble for that... However a plank over the road that activates an air horn works [i]very[/i] well

Lots of cheap trail cameras on eBay as well.

Take the phots and be very obvious about it. Whilst confrontation is unpleasant the piles of human poo in tracksuits very rarely understand normal behaviour. Advise them you are showing the photo to the police and if they have decided you have broken the law they can tell you so after you have shown them their picture and licence plate. If its your floks I am go for CCTV and sign saying number plates are recorded. It's not illegal and puts people off. Hope all works out well.

A couple of red flashing LEDS (cheap rear bike lights) mounted in the trees just inside the gates to the estate look like some form of movement sensor and at as a very cheap discouragement. On at dusk, off in the morning.

there is a company that advertises night vision cameras for farms on Farm Watch (Facebook group).

as for getting a dog, get geese instead. They will make a lot of noise and can be nasty and you won't get in trouble under the dangerous dogs act 😉

oh and you can eat them too

oh and you can eat them too

Who'd want to eat a scrote?

Sounds to me very much like the scrote (and probably his father if the only details they had were the registration) were known to the local police.

I got cut up and verbally and physically threatened by a white van driver a couple of years ago - he hadn't spotted the police about 200 yards up the road so after he drove off I calmly cycled up to them and gave them the reg which the officer radioed through and the response I got was that they would definitely be paying him a visit. He was arrested at 3am about a week later and then I got my day in court. Sadly he didn't show up to receive his £800 fine, 6 points, 200hours community service and £100 victim surcharge in person. After the trial and before sentencing the magistrates were told of his long list of previous similar incidents.