I'm pretty irritated that my child's school is visited by the xxx (read town) "assembly team". It serves no useful purpose.
There are more Jedi Knights in the UK than there are Roman Catholics. haha..
Hey, as a Christian myself I thought I'd chip in here... Why would we not want our Children to hear bible stories? the bible teaches so many positive things like treating other people as you want to be treated yourself, to respect one another and show kindness, values that we all appreciate. I know parents who send their children to sunday school despite not being believers themselves as they know the bible has a positive influence on them.
As for the comments on worship, God doesn't need His ego polishing, He created mankind for friendship, it was always His plan to create a world that He loved and who would Love him back. One of the greatest acts of kindness ever known was God coming to this earth and dying in our place that this friendship with God could be restored. "For God so loved the world that he gave His only Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life" John 3:16.
Blummin heck, this has got very serious.
To all you non-believers, jedi's, intellectuals, agnostics and every thing else, God really, really loves you.
Sorry if this upsets you, or offends your beliefs, but He really loves you.
I work in a high school and the daily act of worship is a mumbled prayer read from a book, this aint gonna win anyone for God so don't worry about your kids, they are safe.
I became a Christian out of a alchohol and bmx fueled lifestyle, He met me where I was, in a mess, forgave me and set me back on my feet, He has helped me on the way and walked with me through everything.
I need no proof, or reason, just faith.
I would rather trust the creation of the universe to something rather than nothing.
Oh well, let the onslaught continue.
Did I mention God loves you?
Ah, Philamon, you beat me to it!
Atheism is a belief in the same way that not collecting stamps is a hobby
I may adopt this phrase and pretend it's my own :o) Actually I've abandoned atheism to replace it with pantheistic indifference. It's basically the same but less dogmatic...
Crikey ... I can't read all the page now but will tomorrow if I have time.
WTF! Leave religion at home.
😯
Atheism is a belief in the same way that not collecting stamps is a hobby. It needs no teaching
This is genius!!
Also a daily act of worship surely cannot be the law as if it is either the schools I've worked at are breaking it or I really havent been concentrating on what goes on in assemblies.
I work in a high school and the daily act of worship is a mumbled prayer read from a book, this aint gonna win anyone for God so don't worry about your kids, they are safe.
But surely, and this is a confirmed atheist speaking, thats worse if its something you really believe in not being done properly? Its why I avoid churches as much as possible, I dont want to do someting in a half arsed manner as I see that as offensive to the religion and while the god or whatever doesnt exist the religion most certainly does. I hate going to weddings in churches for example.
In the Old Testament, the story of Noah, God was not happy with all creatures in the World. God instructed Noah to round up a breeding pair of each speccies. They were all loaded on to the big wooden boat and then God flooded the planet to kill every remaining living creature. Reasonable!
Also in the old testament God was said to enjoy the smell of burning live animals. Seems offensive doesn't it? The word tyrant comes to mind!
What about the meting out of divine justice;
Were all the poor people who perished in Australia bad? Surely God wouldn't allow this because apparently, some people say he cares about us all!
The only person to ever survive rabbies contracted the disease in a Roman Catholic church. A bat swooped several times on the congregation and was eventually knocked to the floor. The little girl wanted to help the stunned creature and kindly carried it outside whereupon it bit her. Why wasn't God watching over her? The girl was just a child trying to be kind in helping one of his small traumatised creatures!
There are billions of other cases of human suffering visited upon good decent people. God is supposed to be all seeing all knowing. Especially according to the mad evangelists that drain gullible people's bank accounts across large swathes of the USA. What a load of tosh! There is nobody watching over you except your loved ones and friends.
The claim by believers is that if you have faith in the existence of a God, he really must be real. Applying such logic would mean that the Tooth Fairy, Father Christmas are also real!
Religion instills many good values. It is a tool of control. It passifies and comforts people. But what about those who dare to think freely, who choose to reject religious beliefs? In some parts of the world, such people are killed! Lucky we are allowed to think and speak freely in this country!
Religion causes more conflict in the world than anything else due to it's divisve nature. A better world would be one where people find what they have in commone, not what they don't.
Do we need religion to learn good morals and live a decent life? Of course we don't!
I may adopt this phrase and pretend it's my own :o) Actually I've abandoned atheism to replace it with pantheistic indifference. It's basically the same but less dogmatic...
The only time I've ever agreed with SFB!
beefy - MemberBlummin heck, this has got very serious.
To all you non-believers, jedi's, intellectuals, agnostics and every thing else, God really, really loves you.
Sorry if this upsets you, or offends your beliefs, but He really loves you.
I work in a high school and the daily act of worship is a mumbled prayer read from a book, this aint gonna win anyone for God so don't worry about your kids, they are safe.
I became a Christian out of a alchohol and bmx fueled lifestyle, He met me where I was, in a mess, forgave me and set me back on my feet, He has helped me on the way and walked with me through everything.
I need no proof, or reason, just faith.
I would rather trust the creation of the universe to something rather than nothing.
Oh well, let the onslaught continue.
Did I mention God loves you?
This post makes me feel like weeping for every life lead in scientific pursuit, for the enlightenment of ordinary people.
I mean, FFS...
Atheists should make no apologies for being vocal in spite of you wanting them too keep quiet.
Where, tell me, did I say I wanted Atheists to keep quiet???
I just don't think Atheists have points, views or opinions that are any more or less valid than religious people. All seem to think that their views and opinions are more righteous than anyone else, who can really say who is right or wrong?
All seem to think that their views and opinions are more righteous than anyone else, who can really say who is right or wrong?
Would you like to be tried for a crime on that basis? Or have evidence, argument and counter-argument presented until a logical conclusion was reached?
❓
Too late, too tired, can't be bothered, tbh.
Night!
And God Bless...
X
All seem to think that their views and opinions are more righteous than anyone else
I don't, I just please myself. As for right and wrong, I claim indifference. I don't care what any external agency says is right or wrong, I reserve the right to choose that for myself. However many gods there may be, I can't see why I am obliged to take any notice of them, any more than they appear to notice me.
Ha!
[:?:]Too late, too tired, can't be bothered, tbh.
Night!
And God Bless...
I'd post something along the lines of '**** it, I can't be arsed to think of a comeback' but I'm too tired.
😉
isn't arguing more important than sleeping ? I was up till 4am yesterday just working on photos 🙂
Simon the stamp collecting quote is not mine, it may have been Daniel Dennet.
Why would we not want our Children to hear bible stories? the bible teaches so many positive things like treating other people as you want to be treated yourself, to respect one another and show kindness, values that we all appreciate. I know parents who send their children to sunday school despite not being believers themselves as they know the bible has a positive influence on them
Phil, you are clearly trolling. The Golden rule can be distilled into a single sentence. Other religions have done this without preaching of genocide, jealousy, child murder, slave keeping, homophobia and mysogony.
Which book are you reading?
My daughter attends an ordinary comprehensive school and told me recently that in RE they did a 'survey' of class beliefs and, out of a class of 28 children, there were only 2 Christians. Even as an atheist, I was (pleasantly) surprised by this.
Goon
This post makes me feel like weeping for every life lead in scientific pursuit, for the enlightenment of ordinary people.
I thought it was too simple for some people on here who are "free" thinkers, does it help that I am currently studying a degree in physics and doing quite well, (96% in last assignment)?
At the end of life, we will all be proved either right or wrong, if I am wrong then I have lead a life of fun, of belief that stops me fretting about stuff, of fellowship with many people (my church has about 700 members, it is lively, full of joy and a great place to be) and we will have all had an argument for nothing.
If you are wrong then the consequences are pretty bad.
I also agree that with the post from anagallis_arvensis, if belief in God results in half hearted rubbish then this drives me crazy, if you believe in something then you should follow it whole heartedly. I find most church services lacking any sort of commitment, that is why I go to Huddersfield Christian Fellowship (Google it), we have just got a new purpose built building with a 2000 people capacity and loads more. It is full of some insanely intellegent people, they can't all be wrong can they?
Without a personal encounter of the supernatural realm, it is hard to believe.
I am convinced because I have experienced things which have convinced me.
I can't argue about it really.
If you are wrong then the consequences are pretty bad.
Ah that old chestnut.
I haven't got enough life/time to believe in [b]every[/b] G/god(s) just on the off-chance that one of them could be right. What if it is a non-theistic religion (e.g. Buddhism) that is right and I should spend all my time meditating - on the off-chance? There are so many religions out there I don't know about. Some with loads of gods, some with one.
Just imagine, you die and "arrive" somewhere where a big booming voice says "do you believe in the Lord God Squidgy and his faithful doodlebug Janet?", as only worshipped on Zaxylat 5 in the Andromeda galaxy?
To me I use the word 'atheist' in that while there is philosophical doubt about all god(s) they are all equally possible. The Christian god is no more probable than Zeus, Apollo, the Flying Spaghetti Monster or the aforementioned Squidgy. Call me agnostic if you want to, but I'm as agnostic about the Christian/Muslim/Jewish (etc, etc) god as Christians are about the Flying Spaghetti Monster...
I cannot disprove god/s. To those who say that god/s definitely exist I only have one question:
[i]Please prove it and then I'll believe.[/i]
Im convinced because I have experienced things which have convinced me.
Out of interest, what things?
Sadly I haven't experienced anything in this life yet to make me belief. Was you a believer before these things happened?
I think I'm the type of person that can only believe in something if there is scientific proof, or I see it with my own eyes.
[i]the bible teaches so many positive things like treating other people as you want to be treated yourself, to respect one another and show kindness, values that we all appreciate[/i]
Which is great but why do so many people who adopt religion seem to ignore these ideals and so often completely fly in the opposite direction? I appreciate that presumably the vast majority of people who've found religion aren't this way but it's hard to ignore sometimes. For example, the 'fish on the boot - driver doesn't indicate' joke is well known for good reason.
My sister in law was in a born again christian church for quite some time. They were to a man, the nastiest group of characters I have ever met. Proper contemptible sneering at everyone who wasn't exactly like them. So many of the christians at my son's school church were deceitful backstabbing bastards who were in it for one person only. I've not had huge dealings with church people outside these two arenas (apart from the local church my wife attended where they threatened her when she turned up with my son because they thought she was a single mum), so my perception may be a little skewed but it's not looking good so far.
[i]Just imagine, you die and "arrive" somewhere where a big booming voice says "do you believe in the Lord God Squidgy and his faithful doodlebug Janet?", as only worshipped on Zaxylat 5 in the Andromeda galaxy?[/i]
Precisely, and if so, that would be the action of a very unfair and unjust god, not what each and every religion proports god to be.
Lets assume for a moment there is a god. When you get to the pearly gates ready for judgement, do you get judged on how much time you've spent on your knees mumbling prayers or by how good a person you are inside? As above, if it's the latter than no amount of church time is going to save my sister in law, she's an evil ****er and should go straight to hell.
[i]If you are wrong then the consequences are pretty bad[/i]
I thought you said god really loves me?
I thought you said god really loves me?
Go for the death bed conversion, just to be on the safe side 😉
It's not as bad as the enforcement of Green dogma that's just caused the burning to death of over 300 people in Oz.
I think a lot of the time opinions about Christianity are actually quite subjective and more to do with negative personal experiences of the church or harsh, poe-faced, 'Christians' rather than an objective reflection on what the bible actually says. In some cases quite strong opinions can be expressed by those who haven't actually ever read it which doesn't seem a particularly objective or rational approach.
For atheists, Richard Dawkins is their prophet and The God Delusion is their Bible.
Discuss.
My partner is head of BPE (beliefs, philosophy and ethics)at a large secondary school. She teaches about faith and the philosophy of religion without favouring any particular one. It seems to be well received and she gets some good A level results. Apparently, quite a lot of 'RE' teachers are not religious. Taught properly, it encourages thought about important subjects. She is of the opinion (me too) that faith schools should not be part of the state system and that there should be no seperate assemblies for anyone. As an aside, when I went to a state Grammar school 30-odd years ago, I was allowed to stand outside the assembly for the religious bit as an atheist, along with a few Hindus, Jews and others. The head was an atheist.
[i]rather than an objective reflection on what the bible actually says. In some cases quite strong opinions can be expressed by those who haven't actually ever read it which doesn't seem a particularly objective or rational approach. [/i]
'Objectively' what would be your opinion of say leviticus as the word of god?
For atheists, Richard Dawkins is their prophet and The God Delusion is their Bible.Discuss.
That old hoary chestnut. Richard Dawkins is just vocal and his opinions are his own. Whether I agree with them or not is a moot point; he doesn't speak for me. You're attempting to lump everyone together under a target that can be attacked in order to smear everyone with similar beliefs, usually used as a last-ditch attempt to move the focus away.
The God Delusion is a book. Just a book. Same as the bible is a book. Just a book. Get over yourself!
I think a lot of the time opinions about Christianity are actually quite subjective and more to do with negative personal experiences of the church or harsh, poe-faced, 'Christians' rather than an objective reflection on what the bible actually says. In some cases quite strong opinions can be expressed by those who haven't actually ever read it which doesn't seem a particularly objective or rational approach.
I know two CofE vicars called David. One believes the entire Bible to be literally true, the other that all of it is allegorical and must be interpreted within the historical context in which it was written.
Both are very clever men, both are ordained ministers in the CofE.
I'm not sure that my reading the Bible cover to cover would enable me to interpret it any better than David or David.
There's certainly some interesting debate going on around the Dawkins hypothesis with some responses being published. Here's one example...
For atheists, Richard Dawkins is their prophet and The God Delusion is their Bible.Discuss.
No becasuse I will be labled an illberal ranting atheist.
Dawkins has some good points and has allowed people to stand up as atheists (not easy belive me!) and make people question things. Questioning stuff is what makes humans great.
SSP
You're attempting to lump everyone together under a target that can be attacked in order to smear everyone with similar beliefs
I was actually only making a joke, but I like your point. It could be said that many people on here are doing exactly that about Christians…
Dawkins has some good points and has allowed people to stand up as atheists (not easy belive me!)
Is it hard to be an atheist? I would be very comfortable announcing that I was an atheist pretty much anywhere (apart from it not really being true). I would find it much harder to state that I was a Christian.
SSP - "Close-minded, illiberal, ranting atheist" was not aimed at you, or at atheists in general, just the close-minded, illiberal and ranting ones. I dislike close-minded, ranting and illiberal theists with same.
As far as I am concerned, there are decent, sensible, humane people, some believers, some not. Then there are dogmatic, pompous blinkered people, some believers, some not.
I couldn't give a monkeys what gods someone does or doesn't believe in. I believe in none, some of my favourite people believe in one or several. That doesn't make them idiots, or evil. We just have part of who we are wired rather differently.
🙂
'Objectively' what would be your opinion of say leviticus as the word of god?
I think I understand what you're implying in that it's not possible to have a purely objective approach. I guess the same applies to science which involves observation as well as interpretation. As for leviticus I guess one interpretaion would be that it points to some of the consistent themes of the bible i.e. that God is holy, that sin has disrupted our relationship with him and that the solution to mending that disruption lies in the sacrificial death of an innocent substitute. Then again it could just be a record of the gruesome obsession of a primitive people with how to dig a poo hole, mildew, skin disease and the fat of kidneys!
I'm not a troll, although I can see why it looks like I am. I'm not one to post in forums much, but I am a genuine MTB enthusiast. But despite me generally not having a lot to say I did feel I had to jump in on this topic for obvious reasons.
As for the comment on Noah and the ark, don't forget that Noah spent many years warning about the coming judgement and the ark door was open to anyone... but people just laughed. It’s hard to imagine exactly how things were at the time but the bible is clear that people were desperately wicked, I believe the world was heading in such a bad way that they would have wiped themselves out if they were left to themselves anyway, the sin made God sick and no doubt it was awful. All sense of morality was lost.
As for the comment on natural disasters like the heat wave in Australia, this is a tough one I'll admit. Christians don't always have the answers, one thing for sure tho is that God does care and does help in situations like these and uses his people to help in all manner of natural disasters like these.
Samuri asked why so many 'church goers' ignore the teaching of the bible and act in a way that opposes the bibles teaching. All I can say is that not everyone under the name of Christian reads their bible, or follows the example Christ gave us. the bible warns that many people follow religion for their own gain, for social status, money etc. but the bible clearly demands a change of heart, a true heart and 'pretenders' have no place in the kingdom of heaven.
Beefy is right, true Christianity should be a real commitment, and should really change your life for the better.
By the way it’s great to see there are other Christian bikers out there! One reason I like biking so much is because you get to explore Gods awesome creation.
For atheists, Richard Dawkins is their prophet
what has he prophesised ? It seems to me atheism or pantheistic indifference is about taking responsibility for oneself without recourse to external authority. In such a context a prophet is no less relevant than a god
It does not really matter what people believe in, it should be a personal matter. School should be about teaching the idea of making decisions based on reason, fact and logic not from other peoples whims (Kings and people (Who at some point have 'heard god') or TV celebrities).
From the other thread on the MMR jab people need to do this even more now as people if left to their own devices are basically accepting (Stupid) of what people in a higher authority say.
There could be an argument though that we need some kind of Christian religious education as many of our common principles come from Christianity.
Simon, semantically, is Dawkins not a prophet because he has had a revelation of truth, rather than because he foretells the future?
I do not agree with the statement, but that is surely the thrust of it.
is Dawkins not a prophet because he has had a revelation of truth,
it appears 'prophet' has more meanings than I knew...
I suppose there may be some basic 'truth', but all we have is experience (or memory), sensation and speculation
Sorry, I meant "truth" rather than Truth. 😉
Quite what it means seems to vary a fair bit in nuance.
[url] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophet [/url]