[Closed] Political Correctness, or over the top decision, Discuss

Well political correctness is a linguistic philosophy so its nowt to do with that 🙂

I agree with Tatchel tho - its a bad decision to demote the guy

I once sold a bike to Peter Tatchell. He din't strike me as a particularly nice person; quite rude really I thought.

I do respect him for the work he does though.

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I bet there are a lot of folk now checking their employee contracts...

Feels anti-democratic to me, what next - sacking for saying you're voting BNP?

Wonder if this incident was final part of a longer running saga with the bloke and his employers?

I agree with Tatchell - the guy was expressing an opinion based on his religious beliefs, can't see it was inciting hatred or violence, very harsh to demote him.

Well I oppose murder, and think its right that the state should have laws against it, but the state shouldn't impose its rules on places of faith and conscience, who should be allowed to stone to death anyone they deem to be sinners.

he [i]looks[/i] like a proper wrong 'un to me.. throw away the key

I once did work for a guy called Tatchell. I kept calling him Peter "by accident" all week which wound him up. He was a right ****er. Unlikely as it is, I'd love if he read this.

b r - Member
I bet there are a lot of folk now checking their employee contracts...

Feels anti-democratic to me, what next - sacking for saying you're voting BNP?

Posted 5 minutes ago # Report-Post

Happened to a police officer down the road from me.

Anybody (and I mean ANYBODY) who quotes Clint Eastwood automatically wins the argument in my book.

what next - sacking for saying you're voting BNP?

Hmm, inertesting. Everyone's entitled to their political beliefs, but if I were an employer and discovered one of my staff were a BNP supporter, I'd be looking for ways to get rid of them, as I woon't want a racist working for me. I'd even use underhand methods to be able to dismiss them.

I am aware that this isn't 'fair' and all that, but sod it don't care.

You know Peter Tatchell hardly has a pot to piss in. He's a proper living saint (he'd hate that), lives alone in a tiny flat on a pretty grim estate in South London. Spends his whole time campaining for liberal causes and often finds time to stick up for the rights of people he should really despise.

I cant think of anyone more admirable. Why isn't he an MP?

Emsz, great post. My respect for Clint goes up again. "Because what I really believe is, let's spend a little more time leaving everybody alone." That sort of republicanism I can agree with.

... Why isn't he an MP?

because of this:

You know Peter Tatchell hardly has a pot to piss in. He's a proper living saint (he'd hate that), lives alone in a tiny flat on a pretty grim estate in South London. Spends his whole time campaining for liberal causes and often finds time to stick up for the rights of people he should really despise

Eastwood is indeed a worthy hero.

For some jobs a belief in equality should be an essential requirement, in a position that puts an employee in a position where they take decisions that can effect the lives of others, ie a police officer or working at a housing officer at a trust, then displaying beliefs that are against equality should lead to dismissal.

often finds time to stick up for the rights of people he should really despise

he should pop round and give me a hand then cos i can't stand the ****

I've not made up my mind about peter tatchell, I've heard him speak and agree with all the equality stuff, but I know he had a plan to out some MPs ages ago which having been outed myself I know can be a shitty thing happen to you, even if you disagree with what they do or who they are, exposing someone to that is non-one elses business.

heard some very wrong stuff about children from him too.

Elfin a fascist well would you believe it.

the BNP are not a party to worry about, however a lot of working class people vote for them out of a frustration with the current parties.

but you can never be comfortable restricting somebodies freedom of speech or political view, if you dont like it confront it head on

He was outing MPs who voted for Section 28, it was pretty radical stuff at the time but I see his point. He's had proper kickings at the hands of thugs, he went twice to Russia to Pride marches, was beaten and arrested both times.

Anyone can convince themselves of their righteousness, campaign for a cause. But almost uniquely he will stand up for the right of the other guy to have his say too. We could do with him on STW maybe?

I saw a great quote on twitter the other day

'Libertarian' - a conservative who like gays and drugs.

Murray - Member
Emsz, great post. My respect for Clint goes up again. "Because what I really believe is, let's spend a little more time leaving everybody alone." That sort of republicanism I can agree with.

It's not republicanism. It's libertarianism. And libertarians can be of both a left-wing or a right-wing sort. Check out [url= http://www.politicalcompass.org/index ]the political compass[/url] if you haven't before.

It's neo-cons and authoritarian neo-liberals masquerading as socialists you have to watch out for! 🙂

For some jobs a belief in equality should be an essential requirement, in a position that puts an employee in a position where they take decisions that can effect the lives of others, ie a police officer or working at a housing officer at a trust, then [b]displaying beliefs that are against equality[/b] should lead to dismissal.

Surely your beliefs do not matter, its how you act on them... as long as you [b]treat[/b] everyone equally in your professional capacity, what you believe or think of them personally is irrelevant.

I've seen Peter Tatchell change from being a pain in the arse, one issue, ranting, in your face gay, who as a member of of "Outrage" disgracefully outed people who didn't want to be outed, into a sensible campaigner for gay rights and social justice, and someone who I now have a lot of respect for.

The reason he's not an MP is because when he stood in a safe Labour Seat the Liberal Party mounted a thinly-veiled homophobic election campaign and defeated him. He never bothered standing again for parliament. To his credit I believe that he has long forgiven Simon Huges, with which he is probably politically quite close.

For some jobs a belief in equality should be an essential requirement, in a position that puts an employee in a position where they take decisions that can effect the lives of others, ie a police officer or working at a housing officer at a trust

I'm with you, pretty much.

But I think someone can believe something is wrong and still treat everyone fairly. Just because this man thinks homosexuality is wrong doesn't mean he treats gay people differently, or thinks he is better than them. It might, but not automatically. Since his beliefs come from him being a Christian, then it's possible that he follows the mantra 'hate the sin, love the sinner' (I think is how it goes?).

EDIT Z11 has said it in far fewer words!

Seems I'm right in the middle between Ghandi and Milton Friedman. Bet they're relieved about that

I've seen Peter Tatchell change from being a pain in the arse, one issue, ranting, in your face gay, who as a member of of "Outrage" disgracefully outed people who didn't want to be outed, into a sensible campaigner for gay rights and social justice, and someone who I now have a lot of respect for.

The reason he's not an MP is because when he stood in a safe Labour Seat the Liberal Party mounted a thinly-veiled homophobic election campaign and defeated him. He never bothered standing again for parliament. To his credit I believe that he has long forgiven Simon Huges, with which he is probably politically quite close.

Yes exactly.......and then Simon Hughes outed himself.

Elfin a fascist well would you believe it.

Oh well ittud be my cross to bear.

I've not made up my mind about peter tatchell, I've heard him speak and agree with all the equality stuff, but I know he had a plan to out some MPs ages ago which having been outed myself I know can be a shitty thing happen to you, even if you disagree with what they do or who they are, exposing someone to that is non-one elses business.

I'm with Emsz there, hence why I don't think he's a particularly nice person. The outing of (albeit hypocritical) MPs was an invasion of personal privacy, however ultimately well-intended.

But on the other hand, he has matured and mellowed a bit, and he does stand up strongly for Human Rights and is prepared to stand up for what he believes in.

Not everyone can be as lovely as Shami Chakrabati.

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To his credit I believe that he has long forgiven Simon Huges, with which he is probably politically quite close.

Cheeky.

People read homophobia into this comment - good grief, he is merely expressly the view that the state shouldn't be able to enforce it views on a church in contradiction to that church's teachings - or his perception of them. It just so happens this has come up in the context of gay marriage. There are numerous other areas where this could come up especially as the CofE is the established church and as a result is entwined in the state through its very constitution.

On the other hand if he was using facebook using company resources contrary to a stated policy then he obviously can be disciplined.

Marriage is defined in law, and thankfully in modern times equality is also defined in law. There should be no "get out" clause in any law for any organisation religious or not. The whole point of equality is that it applies to everyone.

If religious organisations don't want to abide by the laws on marriage then they should not be allowed to perform marriages.

How can "an equality too far" be possible? He clearly views homosexuals as less than the rest of society.

I thought that this chap had written something under his guise as a worker for that housing trust. (EDIT: or during working hours, I guess)

If so then yes, demote him. You should not be making political statements of any kind when representing your employer. And no, crying out that you're a christian/muslim/buddhist etc. doesn't cut the mustard.

If not then don't demote him. Perhaps one day he'll gain some compassion in his life.

Has Shami ever been seen in the same room as Brian Molko?

iDave - Member

Has Shami ever been seen in the same room as Brian Molko?

😆

I struggle with long sentences
If the church/christians allows us to discriminate against them in public life then I am happy to let them discriminate against other people.
They seem to want special protection for them to discriminate base don faith whilst havimng special protection to stop themselves being discriminated against.

Whether or not his comment is homophobic or not is secondary. What business is it of his employer what he says and thinks outside of work time?

If he's posting under the login of his employer, then he's representing them and that needs to be dealt with accordingly of course. If not, they have no jurisdiction. The article even says this:

The Trust previously said its Code of Conduct was updated in 2010 to establish the proper use of social networking sites such as Facebook.

Under the code, staff are expected to ensure their opinions cannot be mistaken as being the opinions of the Trust.

How can they justify demoting him; "well, we're demoting you because we found out you're an old-fashioned godbotherer"?

We could do with him on STW maybe?

Perhaps now would be a good time for a new job for him.

Just another brick in the wall.

Seems to me like the only ones that are discriminated against these days are Christians.

Oh well looking forward to meeting Michael York and Jenny Aguiter as we all do as were are told.

Seems to me like the only ones that are discriminated against these days are Christians.

Love a bit of satire me, kudos.

To his credit I believe that he has long forgiven Simon Huges, with which he is probably politically quite close.

Cheeky

Has Shami ever been seen in the same room as Brian Molko?