[Closed] Please explain Veganism to me . . .

One thing I've found is that Quorn mince takes considerably less cooking than its meaty brethren.

This. Why the assumption that if you eat meat, eggs, and dairy that you don't eat fruit and veg?

Rash generalisations are annoying, aren't they.

Can a vegan drive a car running on petrol? Dino juice..

The answer to which is of course, "if they have passed the required test and are insured then yes they can."

If the question you actually want to ask is "would they..." then you'd have to ask them all. I doubt many would object given that dinosaurs weren't all murdered off by the petroleum industry back in the late Cretaceous, but some people will believe any old nonsense.

I once made chantenay carrots out of some cocktail sausages by adding orange food dye. The vegans I had round for dinner suspected nothing

This is obviously with them being so accustomed to substitute products, they can no longer tell the difference.

On the one hand I felt sad for them, but on the other, even though they didn't know: I'd done them a favour

[quote=Cougar ]Anecdotally: I went out with mates a couple of years back, stopped off at a greasy caff for lunch. One friend ordered a veggie sausage sandwich. "Oh," says another, "I didn't know you were vegetarian?" "I'm not," replied Dave, for that was his name, "I just like them." Sometimes he ordered the vegetarian sausages, sometimes the pork ones, or whatever else he fancied that day.
As options have improved over the years, I've found that ordering the veggie choice at weddings, corporate meals etc usually results in a better meal than the standard, over-done roast beef/chicken or whatever other standard is being served up.

an omelette?

Agreed. My wife is a pescatarian, we have fish/non-meat meals all the time. Falafel is delicious, couscous, veg curry, veg pizza, soups, even some good veggie BBQ stuff. I can't do quorn though, I really don't like it, quinola is another thing I can't eat. I can't stand any form of offal either

Yup- if nothing else, it's more likely to be cooked to order. I get the same with gluten free, in my work canteen you get a dude making it fresh and paying attention, everyone else gets something out of a bucket that's been keeping warm for up to a month.

I suspect if you ever eat in an almost entirely vegetarian place, the meat option will be the same 😆

[quote=Cougar ]You wouldn't say "given I do eat beef, I don't really see the point in beef substitutes like chicken," would you.

No, because chicken doesn't pretend to be beef (I think I already mentioned that there is quite a bit of variety in meat). Given I do like variety, if I'm going to eat something which isn't meat I prefer to eat something which isn't pretending to be what I'm not eating.

I've quite often claimed to be vegetarian when booking flights, given my perception that the in flight meals are better (as vegetarians without the choice you'll probably say that's not the case!)

edit: a bit slow, clearly I'm not the only one with that perception - it's great being an omnivore when you can choose whether or not to eat meat!

[quote=binners ]an omelette?
[quote=scotroutes ]as options have improved over the years 😆

It could be very different though.. I'd much prefer forested hills containing the likes of wolves, bears and beavers than bald fields and peat bogs full of sheep and game birds

Why, so you can go "ooooh look fluffy bear....ooooh ahhhh...doesn't it have such big teeth".

10,000 years ago, bears and wolves etc were the bane of our very existence. Hundreds of thousands of years before that, countless ancestors of ours, would have been predated by big cats and killed in utterly horrific manners.

**** them all! The planet is our bitch now - we need to mold it to suit our own needs. Whether we have peat bogs full of game birds, or rewilded wolves is entirely up to what we collectively value more as entertainment.

I've found that ordering the veggie choice at weddings, corporate meals etc usually results in a better meal than the standard,

Yeah, it can be. It varies of course, sometimes you get what's clearly an afterthought (eg, same as everyone else only without the centrepiece). But there's been many times where (after the inevitable "you're vegetarian? But whhhhhyyyyyy? I could never be vegetarian, I like meat too much" etc etc discussion) my food's turned up and everyone comments about how good it looks and how they wished they'd ordered it now.

The Mrs's is a Veggie, I'm not. She's a fairly strict adherence to it, I'm about 80% with it. Her choice is based on Animal welfare, mine too. If I know where it comes from and killed in a humane way and local (the prime decision point for me) then I'm happy, if not I choose veggie too.

We have two farms in the family, one Beef cattle and one Lamb. Both organic and took nearly 7 years to get hold of the certificate. Damn it's good meat, I know where it comes from, who looked after it, who killed it, get all the choice over what I eat in the world yet very rarely do I come home with any.. I made a pact with the Mrs to not eat meat in the Appt we have, but when home I'll eat what I choose to.
Works for us.

Suggest you make your own decisions on what you eat and not be swayed by anyone elses view you don't trust/believe.

But there's been many times where (after the inevitable "you're vegetarian? But whhhhhyyyyyy? I could never be vegetarian, I like meat too much" etc etc discussion) my food's turned up and everyone comments about how good it looks and how they wished they'd ordered it now.

As a vegan I tire of this happening as well 😉

hmmmm, early genus of the species Homo (like Erectus that managed to survive 2 million years) probably didn't have the brain mutation that caused "conciousness" and thus didn't feel "bad", still managed to co-operate however, as do troops of Baboon and Chimpanzee today. I don't think there's much evidence for co-operation as a result of selfishness. (as opposed to self interest)

Chimps are little different to humans when one realizes that actually..... chimps have theory of mind, so yes, they can conciously empathise with each other.

No, because chicken doesn't pretend to be beef (I think I already mentioned that there is quite a bit of variety in meat). Given I do like variety, if I'm going to eat something which isn't meat I prefer to eat something which isn't pretending to be what I'm not eating.

Heh. One of the most common complaints I hear from omnivores about meat "substitutes" is their perception that they're not sufficiently similar to their meat counterparts; I've only ever heard vegetarians say they don't like them because they're too similar, that's a first. You like variety, yet are actively rejecting yet more variety. (-:

Perhaps chicken and beef was a bad example. How about comparing a shepherd's pie with a cottage pie? They're basically the same dish with different meats, one's not "pretending" to be the other. Why should a veggie mince pie be treated any differently?

I've quite often claimed to be vegetarian when booking flights, given my perception that the in flight meals are better (as vegetarians without the choice you'll probably say that's not the case!)

Difficult to say as I've never been in a position to compare. I have heard others say the same thing though. Either way, I guess if I weren't veggie there'd still be an argument for ordering vegetarian in situations where the quality of the food / preparation couldn't be relied upon. I've always advised people to go veggie for the weekend at festivals, for instance (you really don't want to have to spend all day in a festival portaloo).

[quote=bikebouy ]I made a pact with the Mrs to not eat meat in the Appt we have,

Suggest you make your own decisions on what you eat 😀

Having read NW and scotroutes veggie option posts that sounds like a good idea, common sense approach, thing is I can't ever see myself trying that because

"I could never be vegetarian, I like meat too much"

*I guess actually mean vegan here, I've had some rather nice cheese dishes, but as I** can only really see two reasons for eschewing meat, 1.animal welfare 2.being a healthy option, and cheese circumvents both of those I don't think they really count.

**being an amoral [s]scumbag[/s] omnivore

I should say - I'm not even veggie. I just like a bit of variety in my diet. Sometimes I have meat, sometimes I don't.

Thems fighting words DONK
Invites DONK for tea

I live with a Vegan. Every day is a struggle.

It's fine really - me and the offspring are pescatarian so it doesn't limit us much, and we do get to try a bunch of odd processed German things made from pressed fungus.

[quote=Cougar ]

Given I do like variety, if I'm going to eat something which isn't meat I prefer to eat something which isn't pretending to be what I'm not eating.

I don't see any conflict between those two points.

You like variety, yet are actively rejecting yet more variety. (-:

In other news I don't eat shit 😉

bencooper - Member

I live with a Vegan. Every day is a struggle.

I'm a delectamentarian.
Every day is heavenly. 😀

In other news I don't eat shit

You know what they say; one man's meat is another man's pornography, or something.

In other news I don't eat shit

If you want to eat less meat but struggle, how about introducing something like Quorn as another form of 'meat' (as opposed to thinking of it as something you're going without)? Because essentially that's what it is, it's a convenient way of packaging protein. Quorn can be hit and miss, but their peppered steaks are nice, and I'm quite partial to the frozen 'chicken' burgers. Or if you can find them (I think H&B still carry them), Tivall hotdogs are indistinguishable from the Plumrose ones I used to have before I was veggie.

I'm vegan and I don't ask people why they're carnivore therefore why should they question my diet... it's my choice as much as their choice is
As for lacking certain nutrients, that bull.. all my blood tests taken each year are fine, the only thing that drops is colesterol counts (LDL)
The next stupid question.... 'where do you get your protein from?' - FFS from the food I eat - the ignorance that protein only comes from dead animal and the fact that your body only requires 1gm of protein per kg of body weight
Lack of energy... haha... you can look at my Strava if you want and decide if I have a lack of energy!
As for the cost of dead animal production, take a read http://www.worldwatch.org/node/549
I've not mentioned the diseases associated with dead animal consumption but that would take up too much space and time...
Eat what you want, but don't question my or any other diet unless you want to save somebody's life or health

spxxky - Member

I'm vegan and I don't ask people why they're carnivore

You don't know any.

Anyway, my strict delectamentarian diet requires me to visit the Polish deli next door.
Ciao for now!

Just checked out the ingredients of those "hotdogs"... **** grim. (No worse than shitty processed foods containing meat that've been scraped off some assembly line of course, but I don't eat those either).

Well, they're hot dogs, they're not haute cuisine. Out of interest though, I compared the nutritional information with the Plumrose ones.

Per 100g:

.		Plumr'	Tivall
ENERGY 		792kJ	560Kj
PROTEIN		10.5g	11g
FAT
Total		14.5g	8.4g
Saturated	5.0g	0.9g
CARBOHYDRATE
Total		4.5g	3.3g
Sugars		0.0g	0g
SODIUM		900mg	1g

Additionally, the Tivall ones have: Calcium, Iron, Zinc, Folic acid, Vitamin E, Vitamin B1, Vitamin B2, Vitamin B3, Vitamin B5, Vitamin B6, Vitamin B12.

Whilst they're still arguably "junk food" I'd hazard that they're a whole lot better than their pork (and chicken, who knew) counterparts.

Is there anything specifically in the ingredients that you're objecting to? (I was a tad surprised to read that the colouring agent is rust...!)

here's a thing, i like pigs, i think they're fascinating creatures. More than worthy of our respect and care, even fondness.

so when we kill one, i think it's important to make sure we're not wasteful. and if that means hot dogs made of lips, ears and arseholes, so be it.

being picky would be disrespectful, surely?

How can anyone not like hot dogs?

Sometimes the world I live in delivers nothing but confusion tinged with sadness 😥

Additionally, the Tivall ones have: Calcium, Iron, Zinc, Folic acid, Vitamin E, Vitamin B1, Vitamin B2, Vitamin B3, Vitamin B5, Vitamin B6, Vitamin B12.

Whilst they're still arguably "junk food"

don't think it is about questioning other people's diet (vegan, veggie, pesco-lacto-wotsit, or omnivore).

OP was asking more about "what do I need to know or be aware of?".

Of course there are plenty of very healthy people of all dietary preferences. but if a teen suddenly just decides to "cut out all meat", something has to take its place. not just toast and jam. yes of course you can cross out vegan diet and replace with cr@p diet and say FTFY for those that do decide on a toast and jam diet, but it doesn't exactly help anyone.

Yes I eat meat. Funnily enough by choosing to be a meat eater I didn't just cut out carrots, brocolli, and chickpeas. I choose not to eat quorn mainly because it's a bit weird. It's alright, but I'd rather have meat where the quorn is, or something totally different.

I don't use scare tactics to justify eating meat. Certain militant vegans (not my words - think they were used on page 1) do try to scare me. I have worked in the farm industry, and know when to spot BS.

Now off to find those sheep and cows that eat meat...

And I notice you skip over the industrially extracted ingredients like vegetable oil/hydrolyzed vegetable protein.

I mostly skipped over the ingredients entirely, I wasn't particularly talking about that.

"Industrially extracted ingredients" is a more interesting question though. Is that a bad thing? I don't know, but I do know that hydrolysis has been used in the food industry for a couple of hundred years, HVP and variants on a theme are pretty common. It's probably in trace amounts anyway, it's used as a 'meaty' flavouring similar to MSG.

it's not a great advert though when the junk food (there's no "arguably" about it) needs to be artificially enriched.

Again, there's nothing new or unusual in this. Ever eaten, I don't know, bread? Breakfast cereal? Anything that claims to be "fortified"?

And who's to say it "needs" to be artificially enriched? Perhaps it's a marketing move to make the product stand out from competitors whose hot dogs are lacking in those vitamins.

Andy > well said, all very sensible.

"Industrially extracted ingredients" is a more interesting question though.

is there a better local source than the ones flown in from Spain? so transport pollution and irrigation issues to consider there.

I wasn't making a moral point there. I could have said 'freshly pressed locally produced fruit juice containing a reasonable level of vitamin C' but I'd have sounded even more of a pretentious arse than usual. And that takes some doing.

f you need a chemistry degree to understand how your dinner gets on the table then I'M OOT. So in that sense, it's not an interesting question at all, just a big red flag (to me at least).

I have been a vegetarian for about 35 years. My diet is quite close to being vegan but I sometimes have dairy as I don't want to spend the rest of my life trying to second guess what is in the meals not cooked by us.

I don't actually like meat and never have.

I don't really think about what other people eat it's up to them.

I don't really see why some omnivores regard the lack of meat in my diet as some sort of challenge.

Aye that meat will just have been grass fed and experienced no chemicals ever and it will just be "Natural".

EDIT: Haha nice edit there but done before he saw my reply t be fully accurate

He asked me what I thought was safe to eat FWIW

As it is your argument applied to the meat you eat i am not sure why you are asking me.

If you need a chemistry degree to understand how your dinner gets on the table then I'M OOT. So in that sense, it's not an interesting question at all, just a big red flag (to me at least).

And that's entirely your prerogative of course. But your big red flag is purely subjective, there's no science (or, y'know, facts) behind it. Your argument is basically "I don't understand it and it sounds a bit funny."

Personally, I think finding out whether something we eat may actually be harmful or just surrounded by Internet scare stories is a very interesting question indeed. Sure, it might be a bit of effort, but I personally prefer that approach to batting some baby animal over the noggin and tearing off lumps of its flesh. That just seems, well, barbaric and wholly unnecessary really.

In unrelated news, I've just realised that I've been spelling and saying "prerogative" incorrectly for decades.

Personally I would be so embarrassed if i was spelling words so poorly 😉

EDIT: Haha nice edit there but done before he saw my reply t be fully accurate

He asked me what I thought was safe to eat FWIW

As it is your argument applied to the meat you eat i am not sure why you are asking me.

I don't really see why some omnivores regard the lack of meat in my diet as some sort of challenge.

I'd find any diet that omits bacon a great challenge!

I'd find any diet that omits bacon a great challenge!

HOUSE!