so arcadia need £30m, but its parent company taveta investment [75% owned by his wife], can't fund this :0) and neither can they submit their accounts on time by the look of things..
cant wait to read about the massive pension black hole in the coming weeks.
Much as I like the idea of that weasel losing his shirt, we all know the the likely outcome is that his employees will get it in the neck and he'll swan off to Monaco to spend all that lovely tax-free loot his miussus has been keeping warm for him.
It's enough to make you go full Corbyn.
Isnt he a 'billionaire'?
Or is that just hot air, and he hasnt actually got a lot of spare cash hanging around, but loads of failing assets?
Or is that just hot air,
Smoke and mirrors.
No longer a billionaire, although just read one article his daughters worth £100m
like many business owners stripped out all value and left it to dwindle.
Now seeking banks/investors to fund.
Another 13k jobs on scrap heap,
the pension regulators have hopefully monitored his behaviour in Arcadia pensions, after copping him for £1/3b on BHS A few years ago
Perhaps Trump can lend him a billion or two?
His missus owns more than 92% of Taveta.
Has the company or either of the greens said they can't afford £30 million?
Could be any number of reasons for overdue accounts but in the context of current situation I would see that as a red flag.
Would share the view about possible pension scheme black hole.
Poor Phil's on the scrapheap again is he...?
I bet he walks away from any deal several Million quid richer, his staff owed months of back pay and/or robbed entirely of their pensions, and he'll be busy convincing his right wing friends it was all circumstance and none of it was his fault! 🤦🏻
I hope someone sinks his floating gin palace
They've always stripped the assets out of any business they've taken over, then 'leased' them back for a rental value each year, so when arcadia go to the wall don't expect there to be much assets, always amazes me that the government tend to turn a blind eye to this, knowing the outcome in most instances will always be the same, i.e. taxpayers picking up the bill and administrators making a packet out of the bones of the business.
It's times like this that I really wish there was a well deserved afterlife 🤔
Hopefully he'll slip up somewhere & leave himself exposed, might end up in jail with his mate Dominic Chappell, dodgy barsteward.
@argee yep that the tax system and private equity for you..
I worked for a major supermarket which owned the majority of its stores land and property in the mid 2000s, but that’s not tax efficient.
The aim was to rent and or pay interest on loans to reduce the tax bill.
It’s madness, Debenhams taken over by PE, asset stripped, it works while the economy is strong and revenue generation is consistently increasing .
Same with the Trafford centre owner £xxx m of debt,
Well at least the staff shouldnt be owed back pay, as they are all furloughed so government are paying for them
If anyone wants a nice, simple version of how he did it/got away with it then just go watch the film Greed. Don't pay too much for the privilege as it's not that good, but it weaves an interesting story and I bet it's pretty close to the truth.
Plus Isla Fisher.
Could we nationalise Topshop?
Perhaps Trump can lend him a billion or two?
Top Trumps?
His attitude to other people's money and livelihoods is much the same as his attitude to women employees. Bit of a pattern here. And he's short.
And he’s short.
And ugly. No amount of money can sort those two things. Good innit?
He may well end up back in charge, put Top Shop through a pre-pack and buy it back out of administration shorn of all it's debts and the less profitable stores. The rest of the portfolio will be picked over by JD Sports / Sports Direct who might take a few stores; the rest will close.
The writing has been on the wall for several years, CV-19 is just accelerating the process.
Pre-packs are just a means of shedding unprofitable sites, lining the pockets of administrators, but saving as many jobs as possible in the short term.
To be honest, if landlords get stiffed by these things, then tough shit. But for anyone who has a defined contribution pension scheme it just means less in the pot at the end.
It is another kicking of the can down the road.
Apparently there's a pension fund shortfall of £350m, with Green and his missus taking over a billion in dividends in 2010. Chances of him making good or just walking away?
There's no legal obligation to make up the shortfall, so it will be just down to his conscience / reputation. He was persuaded to make up BHS's shortfall, so maybe he will do so with Arcadia.
Borrows a billion to buy the group and take it private. Pays a billion in dividend to his wife. Arcadia have not paid a dividend since that payment. Looks pretty shady when put like that.
Borrows a billion to buy the group and take it private. Pays a billion in dividend to his wife. Arcadia have not paid a dividend since that payment. Looks pretty shady when put like that.
Text book Private Equity take over. The mistake he made was hanging onto it for so long having made zero attempt to invest in it or stay up to date. Sales have been falling for years. A more savvy PE owner would have floated it back to the market after taking the dividend and then let it's eventual collapse become someone else's problem.
Good article about him in the Sunday Times today, he's a proud luddite, won't use email, won't use a computer and doesn't have a smart phone. Refused to invest in an online presence, so has been completely outmanoeuvred by a younger smarter set of companies eg Asos, Boo-hoo etc.
FT had a nice graphic:
[url= https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50661866631_f29f3e2ff5.jp g" target="_blank">https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50661866631_f29f3e2ff5.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/2kbPiVa ]UK clothing market[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/brf/ ]Ben Freeman[/url], on Flickr
I bet the first thing our govt will do once we've taken back control is to legislate against taking dividends from a company that has a pension deficit. I'm sure it's only been the EU that's held us back so far
I bet the first thing our govt will do once we’ve taken back control is to legislate against taking dividends from a company that has a pension deficit.
Only really solves a small part of the problem, as taking a massive dividend wasn't the root cause of the problem; at the time Arcadia was profitable and throwing off cash and possibly didn't have a pension deficit. It's the not investing in a business for 10 years and slowing running it down that caused the current crisis, by which time it's too late to do anything other than liquidate the remains.
A pension fund deficit is a creditor which has already effectively reduced the profits available for distribution - it is basic accountancy - likewise acquisition debt has to be serviced before dividends can be paid. As footflaps said, he could pay a dividend because the businesses were immensely profitable, but he lost a lot of his best people over time. (He got stuck with the BHS deficit because the Pension regulator went after him)
The writing has been on the wall for several years, CV-19 is just accelerating the process.
I think so, and the pandemic means this will be the in the headlines for a week at most before something distracts attention. More high Street shops written off as "part of the CV19 fallout".
Philip only has to weather a little bit of angst from former employees, and a few nasty headlines and then he can trouser some more millions... from his perspective it really is worth it.
For me it's really simple, can we rely on (all) people to do the right thing or do we need to legislate. That's it really. Expecting Green or anyone else to do spend their own money which legally haven't to is just plain daft. If the law enables him and others to act this way, then we've to accept that they will.
So two choices, suck it up or change the law.
I think there should be some regulation around dividends for companies with pension schemes. I know business success does ebb & flow & you can't necessarily say 'no dividends because you may go bust in 10 years due to unforeseen circumstances'. But something along the lines of any dividend payment must be matched with a contribution to the pension scheme would help prevent situations like this.
the trouble with these schemes is that a lot of the deficit is purely down to bond (etc) rates. Bond rates have plummited, which means that pensions schemes that were healthy now need a lot more money in them to be paying out the same amount to its employees.
really, there should be some way that the pension pot is invested in an annuity-like fund the moment its set aside (ie, this £1000 is for Bob to get £40/month from when he retires onwards). Not sure if that's possible, I suppose with defined benefit mostly closed now it'll be less of an issue in future
He got stuck with the BHS deficit because the Pension regulator went after him)
AIUI there wasn't a legal obligation for him to cough up, he mainly did it to preserve his reputation.
really, there should be some way that the pension pot is invested in an annuity-like fund the moment its set aside (ie, this £1000 is for Bob to get £40/month from when he retires onwards). Not sure if that’s possible, I suppose with defined benefit mostly closed now it’ll be less of an issue in future
That's what is happening to one of my old final salary pension, the fund collapsed into the pension protection fund and exited with various haircuts. It's now being wound up with reduced annuities / insurance policies being bought for all current / deferred members. Once they are all set up the pension fund will dissolve and cease to exist.
He actually paid the dividend in 2005 when the Pension Scheme was in surplus.
AIUI there wasn’t a legal obligation for him to cough up, he mainly did it to preserve his reputation.
As with any legal dispute there are different interpretations.
He got a right kicking on radio 2 I'm not normally a fan of the twerp that is jemery vine but it was good radio. Did green really turn a loan down from Mike(scummer) Ashley
Dunno about turning down loans but I expect it’s just all part of the power play of fat rich tossers.
Did green really turn a loan down from Mike(scummer) Ashley
Ashley's only offering it as a cheap publicity stunt, I doubt it had serious terms attached that would make any difference. E.g. it could have a stupid interest rate and require security on assets, so effectively turning a profit / giving leverage when Arcadia folds.
Looks like Arcadia has taken Denbenhams down now as well, dark day for the high street, going to be a lot of large empty units in the new year, and a lot of people out of work.
and a lot of people out of work.
Sunday Times has the tally at 235,000 retail workers so far this year!
I assume inc Debenhams and Arcadia..
Sunday Times has the tally at 235,000 retail workers so far this year!
is it not the case that COVID has just accelerated the inevitable? I cannot think of a single good reason why I would want to go into a department store, I can buy quicker, easier and cheaper online. I don't think I have bought any clothing in physical shop in the past 5 years. (tbf I hardly buy any clothing at all but I think you get my point)
is it not the case that COVID has just accelerated the inevitable?
Accelerated and over shot eg there was over capacity in the mid market dining sector, so many chains were going to have to scale back and some would fold, but CV has completely decimated them as they can't open.
Same in retail, those without a strong online presence have been holed below the water line. The odd exception, eg Primark, has deep enough pockets to wait it out, but many can't.
Will be interesting to see what bounces back in a year or so, these corrections always swing from one extreme to another....
Is that the same Sunday Times that does the Rich List? That'd make a great pull out supplement. The Rich List on one side and the ****ed by the Rich List on the other. OK yeah yeah I know it's not that simple, there's been a pandemic and that but it's evident that the inequality gap continues to grow for a whole range or reasons, some very 2020 and others a little more deeply entrenched.
@franksinatra middle aged blokes with no style are not traditionally who department stores have targeted 😉
iddle aged blokes with no style are not traditionally who department stores have targeted
Harsh, but true.
When we re-mortgaged a while ago the financial advisor dude had to go through the affordability calculator. This meant asking us about all of our outgoings. He asked be about spend on clothes and I said about £200*. He put this down monthly, I meant per year. We had a laugh about this then he pointed out that it isn't unusual to see people on very modest incomes spending £400 per month on clothes.
*£200 clothing spend doesn't include outdoor gear as this comes under hobbies, obviously!
